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People's reaction to Dany turning Mad Queen says something about us as humans

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Just now, Nowy Tends said:

If you think the showrunners know anything about History, you haven't been paying attention. 

(damn, I HATE this quote now).

I said "Dany is clearly being compared to Hitler." She is.

Any complaint about the quality of execution is a different issue as I didn't bring that up and it's not relevant to my original point which would have been clear if you hadn't hacked up my words. 

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1 minute ago, Lollygag said:

You'll never hear me argue that anything relating to Dany's turn isn't terrible. But what's there is there. It was world conquest with endless innocent deaths laced together with a messianic narrative. They gave themselves only minutes to get across where Dany was headed and there was no room for anything but anvil-upside-the-head obviousness. 

The imagery of the Third Reich and  satanism was absolutely deliberate.

Just to ram home the point that she's now an SS Monster of Bloodlust.  I'm only surprised they didn't have silver lightning runes on her collar.

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Just now, Lollygag said:

You'll never hear me argue that anything relating to Dany's turn isn't terrible. But what's there is there. It was world conquest with endless innocent deaths laced together with a messianic narrative. They gave themselves only minutes to get across where Dany was headed and there was no room for anything but anvil-upside-the-head obviousness. 

When religion and politics travel in the same cart, the riders believe nothing can stand in their way. Their movement becomes headlong – faster and faster and faster. They put aside all thought of obstacles and forget that a precipice does not show itself to the man in a blind rush until it’s too late. ~ Dune 

 

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It may just be the people I mix with, but quite a few were annoyed at her death, because they were cheering her on as she torched the city.

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Which is the whole point of even coming here after reading people defend the way it was set up.

No finesse. No emotional cost.

She was so evil she had to die. 

They could have exploited the damage, the transformation from victim to abuser, from innocent to monster. 

Instead it's hamfisted psychotic break with a posterior upgrade slash justification with a hitlerian nightmare of new world order by freeing people... from relative freedom.

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Just now, SeanF said:

It may just be the people I mix with, but quite a few were annoyed at her death, because they were cheering her on as she torched the city.

When Euron killed Rhaegal and then Missandei I made a comment that I hoped she burned them all.  I cried about Rhaegal.  Of course I came to my senses and realized Daenerys barbecuing all the innocents in KL after the city’s surrender was just WRONG.  There is no justification for what she did.  

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8 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

<snip> endless innocent deaths <snip>

Hogwash.

Even the slavers who weren't guilty of crucifying the children (if any) were slavers. In the context, perhaps they didn't deserve crucifixion, but it was a message she HAD to send and she sent it by a proportionate number of deaths of the class of people responsible for the crime.

So I'd say "zero" innocent deaths instead of "endless."

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, SeanF said:

The imagery of the Third Reich and  satanism was absolutely deliberate.

Just to ram home the point that she's now an SS Monster of Bloodlust.  I'm only surprised they didn't have silver lightning runes on her collar.

The imagery, yes. As if Genghis Khan had borrowed Hitler's (or Caucescu) suit with the help of Leni Riefenstahl and Count Dracula.

Edited by Nowy Tends

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3 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

I am surprised they didn't play Ride of the Valkyries as she was torching the city. That would have been cool.

Hells Bells by AC DC is even better.

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Just now, Ice Queen said:

When religion and politics travel in the same cart, the riders believe nothing can stand in their way. Their movement becomes headlong – faster and faster and faster. They put aside all thought of obstacles and forget that a precipice does not show itself to the man in a blind rush until it’s too late. ~ Dune 

 

Perfect! I'm starting Dune after I get a few rl things out of the way and am even more excited about it now. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Perfect! I'm starting Dune after I get a few rl things out of the way and am even more excited about it now. 

I see a lot of Atreides in the Starks, and Bran could be Leto II. I think that was discussed elsewhere but the parallels are unmistakable. 

Edited by Ice Queen

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2 minutes ago, Ice Queen said:

I see a lot of Atreides in the Starks, and Bran could be Leto II. I think that was discussed elsewhere but the parallels are unmistakable. 

My parallel has always been Paul/Dany , Jessica/Catelyn, Leto I/Ned.

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Just now, Hodor's Dragon said:

Hogwash.

Even the slavers who weren't guilty of crucifying the children (if any) were slavers. In the context, perhaps they didn't deserve crucifixion, but it was a message she HAD to send and she sent it by a proportionate number of deaths of the class of people responsible for the crime.

So I'd say "zero" innocent deaths instead of "endless." 

I'm talking about what Dany is planning for the future as per her words and the imagery. That'd be clear if you hadn't pulled my words out of context.

The children of KL aren't innocent? Ok. 

I emphatically disagree with punishing those who aren't directly responsible and without certainty that they are responsible. Dany's symbolic prosecutions no doubt left some of those who were guilty of the actual crime rolling and laughing their backsides off that someone else paid and they got away with it completely. She looked like an idiot to them. Commit whatever crime you want, just make sure it looks like someone else did it. She won't look too closely because justice is only what feels good. 

The real message to everyone was that she's not just to individuals, places no value on an individual's guilt or innocence, and that even the innocent can't trust her to be fair. It feels good in the moment, but isn't smart for the long term. 

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I am sure D&D didn’t intend to say “looks guys, here is Hitler”, as much as wanting to make her look tyrannical in a cinematic way, and they don’t have more diverse visual references or creativity than using the same nazi documentary that Star Wars already pulled. 

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Just now, SeanF said:

My parallel has always been Paul/Dany , Jessica/Catelyn, Leto I/Ned.

Yep, I agree with that. I edited my post above to not give too much away in case Lollygags hasn't read the story, but the messianic talk around Dany is strikingly similar. All you have to do is think about Paul's jihad to realize what Dany is. Bran as Leto II is a little frightening to think about. 

The physical descriptions of Cat and Ned even match those of Jessica and Leto. 

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1 minute ago, Ice Queen said:

I see a lot of Atreides in the Starks, and Bran could be Leto II. I think that was discussed elsewhere but the parallels are unmistakable. 

I'll look for that. I sympathize with the Starks, but the way they're being pushed as the good guy family really doesn't fit with grey character thing. And it's boring. 

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2 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

I'll look for that. I sympathize with the Starks, but the way they're being pushed as the good guy family really doesn't fit with grey character thing. And it's boring. 

Leto II doesn't come into it until book 2, Dune Messiah. But you'll get the picture. :) 

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13 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Hells Bells by AC DC is even better.

It's pretty awesome and is weirdly more effective than the original scene. 

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10 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

I'm talking about what Dany is planning for the future as per her words and the imagery. That'd be clear if you hadn't pulled my words out of context.

The children of KL aren't innocent? Ok. 

I emphatically disagree with punishing those who aren't directly responsible and without certainty that they are responsible. Dany's symbolic prosecutions no doubt left some of those who were guilty of the actual crime rolling and laughing their backsides off that someone else paid and they got away with it completely. She looked like an idiot to them. Commit whatever crime you want, just make sure it looks like someone else did it. She won't look too closely because justice is only what feels good. 

The real message to everyone was that she's not just to individuals, places no value on an individual's guilt or innocence, and that even the innocent can't trust her to be fair. It feels good in the moment, but isn't smart for the long term. 

Thank you for clarifying, but I didn't pull that out of context. You said "But what's there is there. It was world conquest with endless innocent deaths laced together with a messianic narrative." When you're talking about what is "there," you're talking about what IS, not what will be, and that is the antecedent of "It" in the next sentence. So perhaps you could look to your own clarity of writing instead of telling me I took it out of context.

But whoever's fault it is, we miscommunicated: stuff happens.

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