Jump to content

Recommended Posts

If sailing to the West Indies was so easy amateur Columbus could do it on ordinary trading vessels, it would have been done many times ;)  Also given the other girl did not return to tell the tale (though she seems to have reached Asshai)... She was the equivalent of Vikings as far as the Americas go. They got there... but nobody knew.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The vikings more island hopped didnt they? iceland/greenland/canada?

Arya could have done something simliar/safer then just pointing due west and sailing till you starve/hit land

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vikings had basically coastal vessels. Arya's ship looks like at least on par with what Columbus had, size-wise, so good enough for oceanic crossing. And there seems to be no similar semi-inhabited set of jumping stones like the "northern route" to America - so she is doing basically what Columbus did. Let's hope she has enough food and water :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Here's all the stuff I found in the text. There could be more that I just don't remember. 

 

Book 1

Quote

“Arya glanced at it thoughtfully, but it was well beyond the reach of her stick. It made her think of the sea. Maybe that was the way out. Old Nan used to tell stories of boys who stowed away on trading galleys and sailed off into all kinds of adventures. Maybe Arya could do that too. ”

Excerpt From: George R R Martin. “A Game of Thrones Enhanced Edition.” Apple Books. 

 

Book 2

Quote

“If I had wings I could fly back to Winterfell and see for myself. And if it was true, I’d just fly away, fly up past the moon and the shining stars, and see all the things in Old Nan’s stories, dragons and sea monsters and the Titan of Braavos, and maybe I wouldn’t ever fly back unless I wanted to.”

Excerpt From: George R.R. Martin. “A Clash of Kings.” Apple Books. 

 

Book 3

Quote

“Polliver said that Sansa killed him, and the Imp. Could that be true? The Imp was a Lannister, and Sansa… I wish I could change into a wolf and grow wings and fly away.”

Excerpt From: George R. R. Martin. “A Storm of Swords.” Apple Books. 

Book 4

Quote

"...the Ragman’s Harbor, a poorer, rougher, dirtier port than the Purple. Cat liked it best of any place in Braavos. She liked the noise and the strange smells, and seeing what ships had come in on the evening tide and what ships had departed.She liked the sailors too;"

 

Book 5

Quote

“She missed the friends she’d had when she was Cat of the Canals; Old Brusco with his bad back, his daughters Talea and Brea, the mummers from the Ship, Merry and her whores at the Happy Port, all the other rogues and wharfside scum. She missed Cat herself the most of all, even more than she missed her eyes. She had liked being Cat, more than she had ever liked being Salty or Squab or Weasel or Arry. I killed Cat when I killed that singer.”

Excerpt From: George R. R. Martin. “A Dance with Dragons: A Song of Ice and Fire: Book Five.” Apple Books. 

There's more in the Mercy chapter. 

 
 
 
Spoiler

Most days she preferred to go the long way, down the Ragman’s Road along the Outer Harbor, where she had the sea before her and the sky above, and a clear view across the Great Lagoon to the Arsenal and the piney slopes of Sellagoro’s Shield. Sailors would hail her as she passed the docks, calling down from the decks of tarry Ibbenese whalers and big-bellied Westerosi cogs. Mercy could not always understand their words, but she knew what they were saying. Sometimes she would smile back and tell them they could find her at the Gate if they had the coin.

 

This one is more about her desire to go and see things that she can't normally see

Spoiler

“The first Black Pearl was black as a pot of ink,” said Daena. “She was a pirate queen, fathered by a Sealord’s son on a princess from the Summer Isles. A dragon king from Westeros took her for his lover.”

“I would like to see a dragon,” Mercy said wistfully. 

From the show there's

https://daeneryskairipa.tumblr.com/post/185010505975

 

Also, I remember years ago working on a thread on here about Arya's water theme in the books. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, ARYa_Nym said:

 

 

 

Here's all the stuff I found in the text. There could be more that I just don't remember. 

 

Book 1

 

Book 2

 

Book 3

Book 4

 

Book 5

There's more in the Mercy chapter. 

Spoiler
 
 
 
  Reveal hidden contents

Most days she preferred to go the long way, down the Ragman’s Road along the Outer Harbor, where she had the sea before her and the sky above, and a clear view across the Great Lagoon to the Arsenal and the piney slopes of Sellagoro’s Shield. Sailors would hail her as she passed the docks, calling down from the decks of tarry Ibbenese whalers and big-bellied Westerosi cogs. Mercy could not always understand their words, but she knew what they were saying. Sometimes she would smile back and tell them they could find her at the Gate if they had the coin.

 

This one is more about her desire to go and see things that she can't normally see

  Reveal hidden contents

“The first Black Pearl was black as a pot of ink,” said Daena. “She was a pirate queen, fathered by a Sealord’s son on a princess from the Summer Isles. A dragon king from Westeros took her for his lover.”

“I would like to see a dragon,” Mercy said wistfully. 

From the show there's

https://daeneryskairipa.tumblr.com/post/185010505975

 

Also, I remember years ago working on a thread on here about Arya's water theme in the books. 

 

I agree that it sort of fit based on those earlier chapters, my only issue is that these were the thoughts of a child and now she is a grown woman. It is as if we saw the thoughts of a ten year old boy who wanted to be a fireman and then much later, after many trials and growing up, that is what he automatically became.

There is setup in the books, and I like the parallel with Frodo, but for a world so grounded in reality it is a bit off. Who knows what an adult Arya might actually want to do once the killing was done. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, JagLover said:

I agree that it sort of fit based on those earlier chapters, my only issue is that these were the thoughts of a child and now she is a grown woman. It is as if we saw the thoughts of a ten year old boy who wanted to be a fireman and then much later, after many trials and growing up, that is what he automatically became.

There is setup in the books, and I like the parallel with Frodo, but for a world so grounded in reality it is a bit off. Who knows what an adult Arya might actually want to do once the killing was done. 

I think her desire to go away from Westeros on adventures does align with young Arya.

 

But Faceless Men era Arya what she liked the most was being at the Harbor, talking to the sailors, learning about the adventures they went on, and being near the sea. It's a lifestyle that she genuinely liked. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, JagLover said:

Her eventual outcome fit in with the early book character, but one criticism I would have is that the early book character was a child and many girls go through a tomboy phase before settling down. It should be remembered that her aunt liked sword fighting, and most likely even took part in a jousting tournament, but eventually married someone (causing a civil war in the process).

Perhaps a braver outcome would be something that fit an adult rather than the dreams of a child.

Let's not make that comparison shall we? Her aunt was never allowed a sword and only ever got to practice some with her brothers, who likely took it easy on her. We also know from the books that jousting is 90% horsemanship, so that says very little.

Lyanna was much more like Sansa. The only difference is that she did not like her bethrothed, and looked elsewhere.

Arya is vastly different. Travelling through the wartorn Riverlands, being in Harrenhal and seeing the Mountain's men at work, training as an assassin? 

To expect a conventional outcome after that seems rather silly to me after that.

This dream of hers is also something that's actually established, back in Braavos with Lady Crane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Troy Wessels said:

Arya is vastly different. Travelling through the wartorn Riverlands, being in Harrenhal and seeing the Mountain's men at work, training as an assassin? 

Right, both partly traumatic with showing an enourmous resilience, partly toughening her, partly simple dictating the necessity to fight for herself up until she leaves for Bravos. Her killings before leaving Westeros were a mixture of necessity, outrage and revenge.

2 minutes ago, Troy Wessels said:

To expect a conventional outcome after that seems rather silly to me after that.

Right, and she was a tomboy to begin with. Very unlikely Sansa.

2 minutes ago, Troy Wessels said:

 This dream of hers is also something that's actually established, back in Braavos with Lady Crane.

Indeed it was. West of Westeros as final resolution was very fitting to her arc and clearly hinted at.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not bad, but let's not fool ourselves, this is a sad ending for Arya.  She spent all this time, all of her time in the books and the show trying to fit it as someone other than Arya Stark and then decides she will always be Arya Stark, goes back to Westeros, finds her family, and still she leaves in the end?  That is at least bittersweet if not tragic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Troy Wessels said:

Let's not make that comparison shall we? Her aunt was never allowed a sword and only ever got to practice some with her brothers, who likely took it easy on her. We also know from the books that jousting is 90% horsemanship, so that says very little.

Lyanna was much more like Sansa. The only difference is that she did not like her bethrothed, and looked elsewhere.

Arya is vastly different. Travelling through the wartorn Riverlands, being in Harrenhal and seeing the Mountain's men at work, training as an assassin? 

To expect a conventional outcome after that seems rather silly to me after that.

This dream of hers is also something that's actually established, back in Braavos with Lady Crane.

Of all the Northern ladies, Sansa is the least like Lyanna. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Winter's Cold said:

Of all the Northern ladies, Sansa is the least like Lyanna. 

Really? Both girls believing in love, falling for 'gallant' princes? Lyanna may have been a bit of a tomboy, but when she learned of her bethrothal she did nothing but grumble. 

Until she had the chance to escape that fate. Not on her own, like Arya would've. But with the silver haired Prince. Honestly, it's like every romantic story that Sansa loves.

Their paths aren't the same or even similar, but they hold the same beliefs, hopes and dreams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

It's not bad, but let's not fool ourselves, this is a sad ending for Arya. 

No, it's not. She never wanted to be a lady, she always wanted adventures, as tomboy, as young assassin in Bravos and now after finding to herself. She still does not marry and be "Lady of Someone", she wants independence, adventures, discovery, seeing more of the world. And that she gets. It's a perfect arc.

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

goes back to Westeros, finds her family, and still she leaves in the end?

Yes, he pack survived and she realises her dreams, too. Why not? Most adventurers and discoverers had families back home and ventured anyway. Why not Arya?

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

That is at least bittersweet if not tragic.

Departing is always bittersweet, yes. But not tragic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Hodor's Dragon said:
  • NO experience in command.
  • NO experience with ships.
  • NO experience with cartography.
  • NO experience with naturalism.
  • NO experience with provisioning a force.

But hey, if they discover something that needs killin', well there you go.

But she's plucky...according to Twitter and Youtube so it makes the ending perfect.

Seriously. It was a big WTF for me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Kajjo said:

My goodness, all this moaning and hating.

She will have a captain and crew. We see people walking on her ship. She has personell that is capable of provisioning and cartography. Not that difficult to imagine. 

If Cersei had gone on a ship like this, no one would have assumed she does this all herself. 

She had the maps and the telescope. It also mirrored Sansa and Jon's commanding walk. It seemed to suggest she was the Captain of that boat. It had her all over it

 

7 hours ago, JagLover said:

Her eventual outcome fit in with the early book character, but one criticism I would have is that the early book character was a child and many girls go through a tomboy phase before settling down. It should be remembered that her aunt liked sword fighting, and most likely even took part in a jousting tournament, but eventually married someone (causing a civil war in the process).

Perhaps a braver outcome would be something that fit an adult rather than the dreams of a child.

This is what I was hoping too. I was hoping that Arya, having been the viewpoint of so much suffering of the smallfolk would be the champion of their cause. To reduce it to 'I don't want to be a Lady', something she said before her first period was nonsense to me. Like Sansa still talking about marrying a dashing prince. Instead she disappears forever. 

I'd also point out that book Arya had a lot of youthful flights of fancy. To single one out is silly. She once dreamed of being a forest outlaw like Wenda the White Fawn.  She likes talking to sailors the same way she likes talking to the people around Winterfell. She likes their stories and earthly charms. 

 

How she got the boat is actually one thing that does not bother me. She can get a boat from a few places all she needs is money. Braavos can whip out boats quickly. 

 

I wonder if, in the book. Its mad Gylbert Farwynd that launches this mission and Arya goes along for the ride?

Edited by AryaNymeriaVisenya

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I remember it was posted online years ago that GRRM said that Arya and Gendry had different paths (I don't have the link now) so the fact that they didn't end up together made sense. Gendry's purpose is to continue the Baratheon line. I assume Edric Storm dies. 

 

ETA: Given that he's the last one left I presume that Davos will soon advise him to make heirs to secure the house.

Edited by ARYa_Nym

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Edric Storm feels like the Baratheon Rickon. Its not really about that though, its about Arya, home and family. The core of her identity for me. I've said in the reaction thread, I think there is a dissonance in tone. The show wanted a triumphant ending for their epic final montage so they didnt have anyone say 'Wait, West of Westeros? Where everyone who has tried before has died?' Not one of her siblings protest so we think its a nice safe yachting adventure.  The closest they get to the danger of it is having Arya repeat multiple times she will never go home again. No real explanation of why so I can only take that as a hint of doom.  I think in the book this is going to be far more brutal. 

Edited by AryaNymeriaVisenya

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

Edric Strom feels like the Baratheon Rickon. Its not really about that though, its about Arya, home and family. The core of her identity for me. I've said in the reaction thread, I think there is a dissonance in tone. The show wanted a triumphant ending for their epic final montage so they didnt have anyone say 'Wait, West of Westeros? Where everyone who has tried before has died?' Not one of her siblings protest so we think its a nice safe yachting adventure.  The closest they get to the danger of it is having Arya repeat multiple times she will never go home again. No real explanation of why so I can only take that as a hint of doom.  I think in the book this is going to be far more brutal. 

Well, no not everyone who tried before died. Elissa was never reported to have died and it's implied she ended up in Asshai. Euron returned from his sails around the world. Jaenara Belaerys who did something similar by going further south than anyone before eventually returned to Valyria. 

 

She only said she wouldn't go north again but she can always return to other places like Braavos or to see Nymeria one day if she wants. She did say in the books that she might not return unless she wants to.

 

 When Jon invited her beyond the Wall it's not like she would want to stay there with him. All the Starks are separate from each other now doing their own thing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, ARYa_Nym said:

Well, no not everyone who tried before died. Elissa was never reported to have died and it's implied she ended up in Asshai. Euron returned from his sails around the world. Jaenara Belaerys who did something similar by going further south than anyone before eventually returned to Valyria. 

 

She only said she wouldn't go north again but she can always return to other places like Braavos or to see Nymeria one day if she wants. She did say in the books that she might not return unless she wants to.

 

 When Jon invited her beyond the Wall it's not like she would want to stay there with him. All the Starks are separate from each other now doing their own thing. 

Elissa disappeared and we only have the word of Corlys that the ship survived. I dont recall Euron ever saying he did it. He said he went to Valyria. Sothoryos is a different thing altogether. 

 

Jon was going to stay at Castle Black and she would visit him. Arya said she was never going North again, not even to visit her own brother. Its that, which allows him to go off with Tormund. He's not waiting for her. Its not a case of maybe in a few years. Jon is going off grid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×