International Thread 3

[Varysblackfyre321]

So, it seems Pompeo and co really don’t see  peaceful, and easy way to transfer power.

Weird, given how they’ve touted out their right-wing puppet, would be universally accepted and recognized as legitimate.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/exclusive-pompeo-opens-up-about-venezuelas-opposition-says-keeping-it-united-has-proven-devilishly-difficult/2019/06/05/85385a33-8eae-4ba5-a9ac-6b7b8c3d5762_story.html%3foutputType=amp

[Martell Spy]

Exclusive: Brazil’s Top Prosecutors Who Indicted Lula Schemed in Secret Messages to Prevent His Party From Winning 2018 Election

https://theintercept.com/2019/06/09/brazil-car-wash-prosecutors-workers-party-lula/

Quote

 

AN ENORMOUS TROVE of secret documents reveals that Brazil’s most powerful prosecutors, who have spent years insisting they are apolitical, instead plotted to prevent the Workers’ Party, or PT, from winning the 2018 presidential election by blocking or weakening a pre-election interview with former President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva with the explicit purpose of affecting the outcome of the election.

The massive archive, provided exclusively to The Intercept, shows multiple examples of politicized abuse of prosecutorial powers by those who led the country’s sweeping Operation Car Wash corruption probe since 2014. It also reveals a long-denied political and ideological agenda. One glaring example occurred 10 days before the first round of presidential voting last year, when a Supreme Court justice granted a petition from the country’s largest newspaper, Folha de São Paulo, to interview Lula, who was in prison on corruption charges brought by the Car Wash task force.

Immediately upon learning of that decision on September 28, 2018, the team of prosecutors who handled Lula’s corruption case — who spent years vehemently denying that they were driven by political motives of any kind — began discussing in a private Telegram chat group how to block, subvert, or undermine the Supreme Court decision. This was based on their expressed fear that the decision would help the PT — Lula’s party — win the election. Based on their stated desire to prevent the PT’s return to power, they spent hours debating strategies to prevent or dilute the political impact of Lula’s interview.

The Car Wash prosecutors explicitly said that their motive in stopping Lula’s interview was to prevent the PT from winning.

 

 

[Jeor]

I'm not sure if I've missed a thread on it somewhere, but this Hong Kong stuff is a big deal and pretty scary.

[Rippounet]

On 6/11/2019 at 3:45 AM, Martell Spy said:

Exclusive: Brazil’s Top Prosecutors Who Indicted Lula Schemed in Secret Messages to Prevent His Party From Winning 2018 Election

https://theintercept.com/2019/06/09/brazil-car-wash-prosecutors-workers-party-lula/

It seriously bothers me that this is news.

[Loge]

Looks like somebody has attacked two tankers in the Gulf of Oman. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48619771 Not good.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 hour ago, Loge said:

Looks like somebody has attacked two tankers in the Gulf of Oman. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48619771 Not good.

This sounds very “Gulf of Tonkin” to me.  Why, for the love of God, would Iran give Casus Belli to the US for war now?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

This sounds very “Gulf of Tonkin” to me.  Why, for the love of God, would Iran give Casus Belli to the US for war now?

They wouldn’t. This is a classic case where realism is correct. There is zero logical reason for them to do this if we game this out. The only way this was caused by Iran is if some hardliner faction independently did this to provoke a warlike mentality internally. And even that is rather unlikely. I’d suspect an emboldened MBS is behind this, especially after Trump approved a weapons sale in the wake of the Khashoggi assassination.

ETA: Also, this:

https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/missing-da-vinci-masterpiece-turns-saudi-prince-yacht-190611090442390.html

[DireWolfSpirit]

Gotta agree on the tanker attacks being VERY suspicious. 

[DireWolfSpirit]

On 6/13/2019 at 1:20 PM, DireWolfSpirit said:

Gotta agree on the tanker attacks being VERY suspicious. 

And here we have it, the owner of the Japanese tanker that was attacked has said that the Trump administration are liars and that their vessel damage was above the waterline and from a projectile ( likely bullets) and not from a Iranian mine. https://news.yahoo.com/trump-administration-providing-false-information-124247066.html

These disgusting people have leapfrogged from lie to lie to lie in Syria, in Venezuela, and now to the Persian Gulf. I simply cannot trust anything my government announces until these miscreants are out of office.

[Spockydog]

9 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

These disgusting people have leapfrogged from lie to lie to lie in Syria, in Venezuela, and now to the Persian Gulf. I simply cannot trust anything my government announces until these miscreants are out of office.

Lol. This type of stuff is by no means limited to the current incumbents of the US war machine. You've been pulling this kind of shit for over fifty years.

[Varysblackfyre321]

On 6/15/2019 at 3:28 AM, Spockydog said:

Lol. This type of stuff is by no means limited to the current incumbents of the US war machine. You've been pulling this kind of shit for over fifty years.

I’d say over a hundred. Remember one of the main justification for the US to enter WW1 was that ship smuggling in weapons was bombed. 

But I’d concede it’s gotten worse in recent decades. 

Sadly, the US probably won’t learn from this. In a few years, many people will probably be moaning on how getting into a war with Iran was a mistake, but still eager enough to do a regime change in x resource rich country, after a few propaganda pieces on how evil the regime the US wants to get rid of is. Oh and those who’d say doing such a thing will be called unamerican traitors who love Dictators

On 6/14/2019 at 11:32 PM, DireWolfSpirit said:

And here we have it, the owner of the Japanese tanker that was attacked has said that the Trump administration are liars and that their vessel damage was above the waterline and from a projectile ( likely bullets) and not from a Iranian mine. https://news.yahoo.com/trump-administration-providing-false-information-124247066.html

These disgusting people have leapfrogged from lie to lie to lie in Syria, in Venezuela, and now to the Persian Gulf. I simply cannot trust anything my government announces until these miscreants are out of office.

I mean to be fair the US has been actively trying to get the public to support a regime change in these regions long before the Trump administration. 

Hell, Guaidó was educated by a right-wing thinktank whose express purpose was to train youth who’d help overthrow Chavez.

 

[House Balstroko]

On 6/15/2019 at 8:28 PM, Spockydog said:

Lol. This type of stuff is by no means limited to the current incumbents of the US war machine. You've been pulling this kind of shit for over fifty years.

They learned it from European powers, particularly the English and French. In many ways, the US is a continuation of the British Empire adjusted for the 20th and 21st centuries.

Nevertheless, despite all it's faults, I still think highly of the US and would much rather have them as the dominant power than either the Russians or Chinese.

[House Balstroko]

I have a different take on the recent crisis in in the Persian Gulf. Both Saudi Arabia and Iran are playing games with one another to try and gain a foothold in the Islamic world. It's not entirely out of the realm of possibility for Iran to carry out attacks within the region. They've long been arming groups like Hezbollah and the Shias in the region (particularly those in Iraq, Syria and Yemen). 

So, in a way, what Israel and SA claim about Iran is actually correct. The biggest problem is that they are using it to their own advantage. In Israel's case, to remove an indirect security threat. In SA's one, to remove their main religious competitor in the region so that they can expand Wahabism. 

That's also the reason Iran has taken a more proactive approach against Israel. It's so that it can gain momentum in the Islamic world. It needs that because Shias are a minority.

[Varysblackfyre321]

On 6/16/2019 at 6:52 PM, House Balstroko said:

They learned it from European powers, particularly the English and French. In many ways, the US is a continuation of the British Empire adjusted for the 20th and 21st centuries.

Nevertheless, despite all it's faults, I still think highly of the US and would much rather have them as the dominant power than either the Russians or Chinese.

I don’t think the people who suffer by the pursuits of empires usually  care if the Empire is  American or Russian.

Like if I’m a citizen from x country ruled by a US backed dictator why should I care if my neighbors and family’s suffering help keep the US as the dominant power? 

[Heartofice]

On 6/19/2019 at 12:34 AM, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I don’t think the people who suffer by the pursuits of empires usually  care if the Empire is  American or Russian.

Like if I’m a citizen from x country ruled by a US backed dictator why should I care if my neighbors and family’s suffering help keep the US as the dominant power? 

I'm guessing you are currently benefitting from the US being the global dominant power rather than Russia or China.

[Varysblackfyre321]

18 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I'm guessing you are currently benefitting from the US being the global dominant power rather than Russia or China.

And if I was(which I don’t think I am that that much-I’d rather my leaders try to fix the dozens of cities that have trouble having clean drinking water, repairing our roads, and combating other major internal problems than flexing some dominance in the Middle East)? Should my personal comfort therefore mean that the millions of people butchered, brutalized  and oppressed the US’s pursuit of dominance are justified?

Like what specifically makes the US preferable to it being the globally dominant power than Russia or China? Why ultimately is that a net-good for the world? 

Other than it’d be more likely Chinese or Russian citizens benefiting than US citizens ?

Like you can’t say the World is more free thanks to this given the fact the US in pursuit of keeping dominance funds and props up a whole of dictators.

 

[Heartofice]

2 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

And if I was(which I don’t think I am that that much-I’d rather my leaders try to fix the dozens of cities that have trouble having clean drinking water, repairing our roads, and combating other major internal problems than flexing some dominance in the Middle East)? Should my personal comfort therefore mean that the millions of people butchered, brutalized  and oppressed the US’s pursuit of dominance are justified?

Like what specifically makes the US preferable to it being the globally dominant power than Russia or China? Why ultimately is that a net-good for the world? 

Other than it’d be more likely Chinese or Russian citizens benefiting than US citizens ?

Like you can’t say the World is more free thanks to this given the fact the US in pursuit of keeping dominance funds and props up a whole of dictators.

 

And if it was Russia or China who were the dominant world power do you think they would hold onto their power in a more accountable democratic way?

[Varysblackfyre321]

52 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

And if it was Russia or China who were the dominant world power do you think they would hold onto their power in a more accountable democratic way?

No more or less than the US quite frankly. I’m sorry the foundation of your question is faulty. First off Democratic? The US supports, and installs, Dictators around the world to keep/grow it’s influence. Honestly, Democracy doesn’t particularly appeal to the US when it’s in a country that well won’t service the US. 

And accountable? Tell me, what was the punishment for Dick Cheney and the other chicken-hawks who lied to the US into going to war, and being responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands? Or Reagan for selling illegal arms to right-wing terrorists in Latin-America? Or really any US President or member of their cabinet who are guilty of war-crimes? Nothing. The worst US War-criminals not only pardoned, they often keep their social standing and likely their job. 

Please, the US does not secure its power in an accountable or Democratic way by any meaningful interpretation of those words.

[Heartofice]

4 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

No more or less than the US quite frankly. I’m sorry the foundation of your question is faulty. First off Democratic? The US supports, and installs, Dictators around the world to keep/grow it’s influence.

And accountable? Tell me, what was punishment for Dick Cheney and the other chicken-hawks who lied to the US into going to war, and being responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands? Or Reagan for selling illegal arms to right-wing terrorists in Latin-America? Or really any US President or member of their cabinet who are guilty of war-crimes? Nothing. The worst War-criminals not only pardoned, they often keep their social standing and likely their job. 

If you were a Chinese or Russian citizen what would be your method of making complaints about the things you are talking about right now? You are currentlly on the internet making anti government statements proudly.. good luck with that. You don’t know your own luck.

[Varysblackfyre321]

58 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

If you were a Chinese or Russian citizen what would be your method of making complaints about the things you are talking about right now? You are currentlly on the internet making anti government statements proudly.. good luck with that. You don’t know your own luck.

 This is a pretty bizarre argument for US imperialism. I’m pretty sure, the US government could respect it’s citizens basic rights and not install and sell arms to dictators who’d massacre and oppress millions of people. Hell honestly, the fear that is needed to trump of the public to support its war-hawkish foreign policy often does give way to other rights being vulnerable with the justification being its needed to abandon them for the security of the nation. 

If you were Syrian who had his family murdered  by US backed terrorists, would you be thankful your family was massacred in the mission of securing the US’ dominance in the middle-east?

Again, I have to ask how is the US being more dominant on the world-stage a net benefit for the world?

It does not mean the spread or protection of democracy-quite the opposite.

At best you’ve contended I should see it as justified because you think I(as an American), benefit from it.