Heartofice Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 Again, I’m not advocating for any kind of Burqa ban ( although the French ban of overt religious symbols comes under this, as is face covering) So we are in agreement on the ban. There should be no ban imo Where we differ is that I don’t believe that an any ideology that tells women what they can and cannot wear and prevents them even showing their faces, should be defended, especially by those who claim to be progressives or feminists. I don’t believe that women have any real choice in the matter when it comes to the Burqa or Niqab, and while there are certainly those who say they do it out of choice, i would be interested in what would happen to them if they decided to go out wearing a tiny skirt and crop top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Heartofice said: Where we differ is that I don’t believe that an any ideology that tells women what they can and cannot wear and prevents them even showing their faces, should be defended, especially by those who claim to be progressives or feminists. Hmm, I get the feeling the ideology your referencing is Islam. Odd since I repeatedly argued such bans would be bad in part because it gives credence to Muslim fundamentalists who do think it’s ok for society to punish women for how they dress. If that’s not enough for you; Islam bad. Hopefully that’ll get you to drop this ludicrous grievance of me being pro-Islam in response to me not wanting all Muslim women to be generalized, and under cut if they dress in what would be their cultural attire. Can you actually quote me where I defend any ideology that oppresses women? Wait, you can’t. Because I didn’t. I explicitIy argued against such ideas as it being ok to just assume all women who dress a certain way only do it out fear. 2 hours ago, Heartofice said: I don’t believe that women have any real choice in the matter when it comes to the Burqa or Niqab, and while there are certainly those who say they do it out of choice, i would be interested in what would happen to them if they decided to go out wearing a tiny skirt and crop top. And this is where we actually differ. You’re so condescending as to not even ponder the possibility that any of these women have license. There is no room in your mind to even consider that any of them could be in or move to a community that wouldn’t care if they dress in tiny crop top. It doesn’t even factor to you that wearing such a burqa or niqab could lead to assaults:https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/football-hooligans-kick-pregnant-muslim-woman-stomach-attack-niqab-veil-spain-barcelona-a7232196.html%3famp from anti-Muslim bigots No, it’s only ever fear guiding their actions. If they truly had a choice obviously they’d all dress in the way you deem more appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conflicting Thought Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 5 hours ago, Heartofice said: My guess would be the vast majority of Muslim women could not wear one if the wanted to. They have no option I would think this guess needs some backing up with facts. There are close to 2 billion muslims, all from different countries and cultures. So i have doubts of your guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted June 30, 2019 Author Share Posted June 30, 2019 Here's an article on a woman's beach in Lebanon. From what I'm reading the choice of beach wear is very much a personal choice for these muslim woman. Indeed the last lady quoted in the article saying (regarding what they wear at these beaches), "Religion is broad, it's a personal choice." https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/women-only-beach-lebanon-beirut-muslim-islam-a8541871.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 I'd love to know how much time Conflicting Thoughts & Heartofice have spent in countries with a Muslim majority population, or even talked to women who wear the a Hijab/ Niqab etc - it is a bit strange to have dudes ( and it is *always* men) vigorously engage in these debates about Islam & Muslim women without even a little bit of nuance or experience with what they're talking about. As someone who has lived in the Middle-East for a decade, it is a lot more complicated than 'they have no option'. I'll also say, there is a huge diversity in the muslim world that these posters don't acknowledge or haven't been exposed to. The best thing about these threads is that I know exactly which people to ignore on the rest of the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conflicting Thought Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Raja said: I'd love to know how much time Conflicting Thoughts & Heartofice have spent in countries with a Muslim majority population, or even talked to women who wear the a Hijab/ Niqab etc - it is a bit strange to have dudes ( and it is *always* men) vigorously engage in these debates about Islam & Muslim women without even a little bit of nuance or experience with what they're talking about. As someone who has lived in the Middle-East for a decade, it is a lot more complicated than 'they have no option'. I'll also say, there is a huge diversity in the muslim world that these posters don't acknowledge or haven't been exposed to. The best thing about these threads is that I know exactly which people to ignore on the rest of the forum. Umm i agree with you. Maybe i didnt express myself right. I was asking Heartofice if he can support his "guess" that the majority of muslim women are being coerced, when there are almos 2 billion muslims. So i think exactly the oposite of Heartofice. (in practically everything) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said: Umm i agree with you. Maybe i didnt express myself right. I apologize, I confused your post with another poster and have read back enough to realize that you don't share his views. That was my bad and I should have read over your posts properly. As an aside, I think there is a nuanced discussion to have regarding women in Muslim Majority countries, but it's certainly not to be found here or in *any*of the stuff Heartofice posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Quote Amid the rapid rise of strongman governments in one country after another, and the slow collapse of democratic values in some of the globe’s biggest powers, there’s a bit of good news: June was an absolutely terrible month for autocrats. The past few weeks have dealt unaccustomed blows to men who are used to winning crushing victories against their foes, and against the spirit of openness in their nations. After more than a decade of global autocratic drift, the strongman leaders of China, Russia, and Turkey all suffered the near-simultaneous reverses. It’s much too early to call this a turning point, but with the world in the midst of what Freedom House calls a “consistent and ominous” pattern of democracy in retreat, the events of the past month offer a ray of hope that autocracies’ built-in weaknesses, including politically driven economic decision-making, along with the human reaction to political repression, can gradually chip away at closely held power. For the World’s Autocrats, June Was a Rare Bad Month Around the world, democracy has had a resurgence. Now are U.S. voters willing to step up? By FRIDA GHITIS June 29, 2019 Frida Ghitis writes about world affairs. She is a contributing columnist for the Washington Post, a regular contributor to CNN.com and a weekly columnist at World Politics Review. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/06/29/for-the-worlds-autocrats-june-was-a-rare-bad-month-227249 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 On 6/29/2019 at 7:43 PM, Heartofice said: Again, its important to determine whether a Burqa or Burkini are 'symbols of religious expression' or not. Is it religious expression if NOT wearing something could mean violent beatings or death? I am not defending the ban at all, I think it shouldn't exist, but it puts those people who are wearing the burkini in some form of solidarity with muslims in a pretty uncomfortable position. Those people who have the lucky option of NOT wearing a Burkini or NOT wearing a Burqa or Niqab probably should be doing more to help those who don't have the same options. Actually it's not important, not in the slightest. The important question is whether a govt should be legislating what people can or can't wear. If it is a clear matter of public safety, yes, if not then the govt (and especially the administrators of a public baths) should stfu. There's a claim that "loose" clothing is a bacterial health hazard. If they can show the science that proves there is a significant increase in harmful bacteriological risk, then sure there's a public safety basis for banning all articles of loose clothing. But I have a hard time believing it, since it doesn't seem to be an issue of public safety in most places around the world. And of course we have the beach ban for Burkinis, what's the public safety rationale for that? If you want to do anything to reduce the number of women who are forced against their will to wear Burqas or Niqabs, then go after the men who are forcing the women to do this. Don't go after the women. It should also be noted that Muslim women showing up to public, unisex pools wearing Burkinis will be from relatively liberal Muslim families. The women who wear actual Burqas and Niqabs are from very conservative families where the women are highly unlikely to go anywhere that men and women are swimming in the same pool within sight of one another. Ilhan Omar, the firebrand Muslim member of the US congress, is the kind of Muslim woman who would be at a public pool in a Burkini. I'm guessing she's not feeling particularly oppressed by her Muslim dress code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Shit: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48832910 This was to be expected. I had followed the news about the protests very closely and it's disheartening to watch. With China hastening up the dissolving of Hong Kong's special rights aided by a pro-Chinese local administration, things were set to get tense. While I admire the courage of the protestors to fight for their rights, I just can't see how they could possibly change anything. This is all just too hopeless... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48655474 Especially the constant fear over surveillance is creepy and shows just how much Hong Kong was overtaken by Chinese power structures in the last few years. This is all so fucked up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 I don't know how anyone thought things would go any differently with Hong Kong when China took it back. It would always take a while for Hong Kong to be completely absorbed back into China but it seemed pretty inevitable. The UK should have granted all Hong Kong citizens British citizenship with a right to move to Britain, or anywhere else in the EU (up to Brexit of course), and warn China that mucking around with the status of Hong Kong will lead to a mass exodus. But since Britain kicked Hong Kong citizens to the curb there was really no protection for them. I see Britain is threatening to withdraw from the Iran nuclear agreement if Iran refines more uranium. Are there not measures within the agreement for what happens if Iran goes beyond the bounds of the agreement, or is it simply null and void if one of the parties violates the terms of the agreement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Contrails (NOT chemtrails) are an actual problem for climate change, it seems. https://www.atmos-chem-phys.net/19/8163/2019/ Quote Abstract Back to top The climate impact of air traffic is to a large degree caused by changes in cirrus cloudiness resulting from the formation of contrails. Contrail cirrus radiative forcing is expected to increase significantly over time due to the large projected increases in air traffic. We use ECHAM5-CCMod, an atmospheric climate model with an online contrail cirrus parameterization including a microphysical two-moment scheme, to investigate the climate impact of contrail cirrus for the year 2050. We take into account the predicted increase in air traffic volume, changes in propulsion efficiency and emissions, in particular soot emissions, and the modification of the contrail cirrus climate impact due to anthropogenic climate change. Global contrail cirrus radiative forcing increases by a factor of 3 from 2006 to 2050, reaching 160 or even 180 mW m−2, which is the result of the increase in air traffic volume and a slight shift in air traffic towards higher altitudes. Large increases in contrail cirrus radiative forcing are expected over all of the main air traffic areas, but relative increases are largest over main air traffic areas over eastern Asia. The projected upward shift in air traffic attenuates contrail cirrus radiative forcing increases in the midlatitudes but reinforces it in the tropical areas. Climate change has an insignificant impact on global contrail cirrus radiative forcing, while regional changes are significant. Of the emission reductions it is the soot number emission reductions by 50 % that lead to a significant decrease in contrail cirrus optical depth and coverage, leading to a decrease in radiative forcing by approximately 15 %. The strong increase in contrail cirrus radiative forcing due to the projected increase in air traffic volume cannot be compensated for by the decrease in initial ice crystal numbers due to reduced soot emissions and improvements in propulsion efficiency. Greater climate change effect than the CO2 emissions of flying. I would never have thought that would be the case. I'm still a but doubtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 It no deal Brexit happens and makes the UK economy go tits up, that is surely going to cause economic problems globally. Have other countries been thinking / preparing themselves for this possibility? Have people outside the UK been personally thinking / preparing for this possibility? When will markets start pricing in a no-deal scenario and will they under or over-estimate the effects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 So Russian and Chinese Jets penetrated the Korean Air Defense Zone this morning (KAIDZ) and were chased off by South Korean Fighter jets. What is significant is that after the Russian jets were warned off they returned twice more prompting the Korean Air Force fighters to fire "warning shots" at the Russian Jet. The Koreans also claim the Russians actual penetrated Korean air space itself. What are the Russian's playing at?https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-49079719 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Who knows Scot? Hopefully they're just probing Korea's defenses. Anything else would be quite troubling. In other news, two for the price of one. This NPR podcast covers the tensions in both Puerto Rico and Iran. Well worth a listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Seems like a clear display to the US that North Korea does not stand alone if it came to military aggression against North Korea. But I also highly doubt that China or Russia would actually lift a military finger in active defense of DPRK if it came to shots being fired by the USA. Russia and China never got into a direct shooting war with the USA at the height of the cold war, they're not about to start doing that now. But I do think China and Russia are reminding everyone that Korea has suppliers when it comes to conventional military hardware. I wonder what China would do if the USA dropped a nuke so close to it's own territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Rhinos Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 On 7/23/2019 at 3:03 PM, The Anti-Targ said: Seems like a clear display to the US that North Korea does not stand alone if it came to military aggression against North Korea. But I also highly doubt that China or Russia would actually lift a military finger in active defense of DPRK if it came to shots being fired by the USA. Russia and China never got into a direct shooting war with the USA at the height of the cold war, they're not about to start doing that now. But I do think China and Russia are reminding everyone that Korea has suppliers when it comes to conventional military hardware. I wonder what China would do if the USA dropped a nuke so close to it's own territory. The Korean War was definitely a shooting war with China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 23 minutes ago, Lord of Rhinos said: The Korean War was definitely a shooting war with China. Yeah, but not a direct shooting war against the USA. It was ostensibly a civil war between two parts of Korea with the USA and China putting their own skin in the game on opposite sides. Essentially, China didn't declare war on the USA and the USA didn't declare war on China. The Iran situation would be unique, where in the case of the USA it would not be coming in behind a proxy, it would be the primary opponent, and Russia would have to declare war on the USA if it was going to use its own military to help out Iran. Russia's not going to do that, and China is not going to do that. But they would probably both supply Iran with arms, probably in the hope that a prolonged war will drain the USA, cause even more political instability and thus increase China and Russia's influence in the world compared to the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Rhinos Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 I don't know why we're talking about Iran all the sudden when we were talking about Russia invading South Korean airspace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, Lord of Rhinos said: I don't know why we're talking about Iran all the sudden when we were talking about Russia invading South Korean airspace. Presumably because it's where the US just waiting for a pretext (and the right time at home) - and has already invaded sovereign airspace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.