Jump to content
DireWolfSpirit

International Thread 3

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

I will never understand the right's approach to maintaining a Jewish state. Making everyone hate you is not the path to follow. 

The Israeli right is all about finding it easier to deal with others' hatred than to seek to overcome it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rippounet said:

The Israeli right is all about finding it easier to deal with others' hatred than to seek to overcome it.

Or just get rid of those they hate. I’m guessing  most of the Palestinians on the ground will be eventually “asked” to leave by Israel sometime after the annexation.  instead of adopting them into citizens out of fear of their birth rates overshadowing the current Israel population. Or set it up to be the Palestinians have no political/social equal rights to any person of Jewish. I also imagine there will be tons of whining on how critiquing Israel over committing ethnic cleansing or Apartheid isn’t fear(maybe anti-Semitic), because the Palestinians are so bad.  

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Or just get rid of those they hate. I’m guessing  most of the Palestinians on the ground will be eventually “asked” to leave by Israel sometime after the annexation.  instead of adopting them into citizens out of fear of their birth rates overshadowing the current Israel population. Or set it up to be the Palestinians have no political/social equal rights to any person of Jewish. I also imagine there will be tons of whining on how critiquing Israel over committing ethnic cleansing or Apartheid isn’t fear(maybe anti-Semitic), because the Palestinians are so bad.  

Sadly I think this could actually happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/11/2019 at 10:29 AM, Tywin et al. said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/10/netanyahu-vows-annex-large-parts-occupied-west-bank-trump

I will never understand the right's approach to maintaining a Jewish state. Making everyone hate you is not the path to follow. 

If the world sits idly by and watches as Netanyahu and Trump stitch this landgrab together then it won't be Trump or Netanyahu's fault that it happens. It's within the power of a large number of countries (The EU in particular) to get implement BDS, only if this happens I would say the B needs to change from boycott to blockade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

If the world sits idly by and watches as Netanyahu and Trump stitch this landgrab together then it won't be Trump or Netanyahu's fault that it happens. It's within the power of a large number of countries (The EU in particular) to get implement BDS, only if this happens I would say the B needs to change from boycott to blockade.

Eh, I'm fairly weary of the BDS movement. A lot of people are pushing it as a backdoor attempt to end the Jewish state of Israel and that's almost entirely motivated by Antisemitism. There are better solutions to resolve the issue. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Eh, I'm fairly weary of the BDS movement. A lot of people are pushing it as a backdoor attempt to end the Jewish state of Israel and that's almost entirely motivated by Antisemitism. There are better solutions to resolve the issue. 

I mean BDS is basically the international tool of disapproval and pressure to change enacted by one or more country on another when outright war, invasion and overthrow are not an appropriate option. The grassroots BDS movement started because no countries of any note have taken this course of action despite the violation of international law and human rights that Israel has been doing for several years.

Anti-Semites are going to get on board anything that is going to cause Israel problems. Doesn't mean it's not an appropriate course of action. You just have to be wise to the anti-semite element and prevent it from becoming the dominant force.

There aren't any solutions to resolve the issue while Israel feels like it can act with impunity under the protective gaze of the USA. Obama was about as antagonistic to Israel as any US president can get, yet there was no meaningful progress in his 8 years. If Israel's friends and allies can't stop it's onward march to full blown human rights abuser and international outlaw then something else is going to break and cause way more suffering than a bit of BDS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New Zealand PM Jacinda Ardern being dragged down by sexual assault scandal and cover up in the Labour party.

She either didn't know about it being a sexual assault while senior party officials did, or she did know about it and has lied about knowing and played a part in trying to cover it up. Both of those options are bad. If she was not informed it's because senior party officials don't respect her as party leader and PM and don't want her involved in these things. There is no way they kept info from her to keep her hands clean, because the PM not knowing about bad shit happening in the party just looks weak and not trusted by her own people.

This is bad for her and the Labour party no matter what the truth is. If I was in her position I'd feel very tempted to tell the party to go to hell and I'd think about resigning from parliament to go and work with people who actually do have good ethics and principles.

I prefer it if Jacinda was regarded with contempt by her own party officials and kept in the dark. Because the idea of our PM being a liar about sexual assault allegations and trying to cover things up is terrible to think about. But I find it terribly hard to accept that she knew nothing of this. It doesn't wash.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So Saudi's largest refinery and a nearby oilfield ablaze with reported gunfire aaand- https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/14/politics/hamza-bin-laden-al-qaeda-dead/index.html

Coincidence? I'm wondering if those events are tit for tat?

Eta:

Ok I see this- https://news.yahoo.com/yemens-houthi-rebels-claim-drone-091155510.html

Probably coincidental then, as I think Houthi's are Shiite and Bin Laden's followers (Al Qaeda) were Sunni?

Edited by DireWolfSpirit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Italy has offered the Norwegian-flagged Ocean Viking migrant rescue vessel run by Doctors Without Borders and SOS Mediterranee a safe port to dock on the Sicilian island of Lampedusa to disembark 82 migrants rescued off the coast of Libya. The permission was granted by Italy’s new government after far-right leader Matteo Salvini was ousted last month in a failed power play to call snap elections. As Interior Minister, Salvini had closed Italian ports to all NGO ships. Only those who won court orders or forced their way into ports had disembarked during the last 14 months. The new center-left coalition with the anti-establishment Five Star Movement has said ports are not officially reopened, but that each request would be evaluated.

Italy Reopens Ports to Migrants After Ousting Far-Right Leader

thedailybeast.com/italy-reopens-ports-to-migrants-after-ousting-far-right-leader-matteo-salvini?ref=home

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/11/2019 at 3:50 PM, Tywin et al. said:

Sadly I think this could actually happen.

Honestly, I’d be shocked if it didn’t. I mean Israel has already used collective punishment against alleged terrorists(well terrorists who  weren’t Jewish religious extremists at least), for years now:https://imemc.org/article/the-escalation-of-israeli-collective-punishment-of-palestinians/  

Ethnic cleansing or literal apartheid would appear to be the next natural step after agreeing to this idea of it being ok to punish people for the crime of being related to someone who did something bad. 

Including this many Palestinians as citizens with equal political/social rights, would inevitably influence the society in a way that would only possibly undermine Israel’s right/religious extremists. 

Ethnic cleansing or apartheid are really the only way I see this ending. 

But remember this when Israel does it-it’s not racist they’re just trying to protect their culture from those savage Palestinians. Israel is a liberal democracy now matter how many human rights abuses it commits and they need America’s full support. 

Also Israel is more friendly towards America so you shouldn’t complain you hypocrite. Kidding.

On 9/12/2019 at 3:09 PM, Tywin et al. said:

Eh, I'm fairly weary of the BDS movement. A lot of people are pushing it as a backdoor attempt to end the Jewish state of Israel and that's almost entirely motivated by Antisemitism. There are better solutions to resolve the issue. 

Like what? Like yes there are bad people in the movement but the actual tools(advocating Boycotts, and sanctions) are already peaceful and I’d argue the only thing that even might lead to policy changes in Israel. 

 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Why did you like such an outdated article? It's more than 35 years old and those facts are no longer true. The majority of Ethiopian Jews now live in Israel and Israel carried out some now famous operations to bring them to Israel (Sudan and also the using many planes to airlift thousands of Ethiopian Jews in one day). 

 

Also just as an aside, unlike what that article said, ritual purification by immersion in water is a major part of rabbinic Judaism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

West African leaders fight together against terrorism:

The Fifteen members of the ECOWAS, Mauretania and Chad have decided to spend 1 billion dollars on fighting organisations asociated with Al-Quiada and the IS. The president of the ECOWAS Commission, Jean-Claude Bro claimed that there were 2,200 attacks in the last four years, 11,500 dead, thousands wounded, millions of displaced, and economic activity has been greatly affected.

Niger President Issafou blames the International community and the Lybian crisis for the spread of these groups.

Edited by Karneol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, dornishpen said:

Why did you like such an outdated article? It's more than 35 years old and those facts are no longer true. The majority of Ethiopian Jews now live in Israel and Israel carried out some now famous operations to bring them to Israel (Sudan and also the using many planes to airlift thousands of Ethiopian Jews in one day).

 

Also just as an aside, unlike what that article said, ritual purification by immersion in water is a major part of rabbinic Judaism.

Yes it's very old newswise, but still interesting to me for the historical context. It does mention the situation had already began to change during this period here-

Since 1980 this situation has been changing. Public awareness of Black Jews has increased, and the Begin government has made great strides in helping Ethiopian Jews resettle in Israel.

I liked reading about some history surrounding the right of return and had it on my mind because of the discussions Tywin and VBlkfire were having, you don't have to read it if your looking for current events exclusively.

And lastly on immersion being a major part of rabbinic Judaism, I didn't notice the article challenging that, I would have to reread that section. I was interested in the Zionist history.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

 

And lastly on immersion being a major part of rabbinic Judaism, I didn't notice the article challenging that, I would have to reread that section. I was interested in the Zionist history.

There was a section about how the Judaism of Ethiopian Jews is different and that they didn't have Talmud, it listed some specific differences including the ritual immersion thing (mikvah), and that part was flat wrong. Orthodox women use them every month and many orthodox men use them regularly, especially before holidays.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/15/2019 at 5:28 AM, DireWolfSpirit said:

So Saudi's largest refinery and a nearby oilfield ablaze with reported gunfire aaand- https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/14/politics/hamza-bin-laden-al-qaeda-dead/index.html

Coincidence? I'm wondering if those events are tit for tat?

Eta:

Ok I see this- https://news.yahoo.com/yemens-houthi-rebels-claim-drone-091155510.html

Probably coincidental then, as I think Houthi's are Shiite and Bin Laden's followers (Al Qaeda) were Sunni?

The ultra conspiracist in me thinks this is a US operation. The Trump camp is almost certain that Trump will lose in 2020, so a pretext for war is required and they see the best option as being Iran. Wartime presidents almost always get re-elected. And if they can give him good heroic president exposure he can squeak in. Or state of war footing and cancel the 2020 election.

OTOH Iran's fingerprints could be directly on this, but they're doing it because they know Russia has their back, and Russia has Trump's balls. So there will be no war. I can't see Iran being behind it knowing there is a very high risk this would mean war with the US, and with UN agreeing to the war, just like Gulf War 1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

OTOH Iran's fingerprints could be directly on this, but they're doing it because they know Russia has their back, and Russia has Trump's balls. So there will be no war. I can't see Iran being behind it knowing there is a very high risk this would mean war with the US, and with UN agreeing to the war, just like Gulf War 1.

I must point out again in this thread if Trump truly capitulated totally to Putin Trump wouldn't have broken the nuclear agreement with Iran. 

The guy has a history of screwing people he’s worked with including benefactors.

It really doesn’t jive he’d be any more hesitant now if he thought it could help out even a little.

I do think  the rhetoric surrounding this by his administration is meant to escalate tensions regardless of Iran’s culpability.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I must point out again in this thread if Trump truly capitulated totally to Putin Trump wouldn't have broken the nuclear agreement with Iran. 

The guy has a history of screwing people he’s worked with including benefactors.

It really doesn’t jive he’d be any more hesitant now if he thought it could help out even a little.

I do think  the rhetoric surrounding this by his administration is meant to escalate tensions regardless of Iran’s culpability.  

Perhaps Russia wants Iran to develop nukes and so Trump shit canning the Iran nuclear deal frees up Iran to do that. So Trump axing the nuke deal isn't necessarily out of step with what Russia or Iran want. And economic hardship by the ordinary folk in Iran may be a price Russia and the Ayatollahs are willing for them to pay.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Perhaps Russia wants Iran to develop nukes and so Trump shit canning the Iran nuclear deal frees up Iran to do that.

Then the deal would not happened in the first place with the Obama administration.  The deal that was the best chance to avoid that happening in the first place. Or Trump and his administration would not be dancing around accusing Iran of bad intentions until they went nuclear. Because then Trump would look demonstrably worse off he did nothing in response.  

2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

So Trump axing the nuke deal isn't necessarily out of step with what Russia or Iran want.

Yes it is. 

2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

And economic hardship by the ordinary folk in Iran may be a price Russia and the Ayatollahs are willing for them to pay.

Yes, the Ayatollah and Russia want to weaken Iran’s standing to go nuclear-something they were previously shown willing to sacrifice for the removal of the sanctions. Sarcasm. 

Listen I do understand  authorcrats  and despots sacrificing the well-being of innocent people  even their own to increase their power is by no means rare but this case doesn’t appear to be benefiting said despots, with the exception of possibly Trump.

 

Seriously, this idea Trump is wholeheartedly loyal to anyone is quite laughable in my opinion.

Russia did help Trump in 2016. I think it pretty likely Russia will attempt the same thing this time around. I don’t think for a second Trump is bothered such interferences on his behalf. But I do doubt he’d anymore loyal to Putin anymore than any other shady Business he’s worked with.  

Like you do realize how bad politically this would look to Trump’s base if Iran even came close to becoming nuclear without military action by Trump right?

Israel and by extension tens of devout Evangelicals see a nuclear Iran as an existential threat to the Jewish state.

Seriously, he’s been actively taking the same attempts at regime change against largely-Russia backed countries for a while now.

What, you think it’s in Russia’s best interest for Trump to have continuously ranted about Guaido being the true President, supplying him with money, supplies, and specialists to help him out Maduro’s regime?

If so I think you’re grasping at straws to keep up this image of Trump’s and Putin’s relationship you’ve built up in head. 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

The ultra conspiracist in me thinks this is a US operation. The Trump camp is almost certain that Trump will lose in 2020, so a pretext for war is required and they see the best option as being Iran. Wartime presidents almost always get re-elected. And if they can give him good heroic president exposure he can squeak in. Or state of war footing and cancel the 2020 election.

OTOH Iran's fingerprints could be directly on this, but they're doing it because they know Russia has their back, and Russia has Trump's balls. So there will be no war. I can't see Iran being behind it knowing there is a very high risk this would mean war with the US, and with UN agreeing to the war, just like Gulf War 1.

I think we can safely rule this out, especially since Houthis put out an official statement saying basically "yep, it was us".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×