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The Marquis de Leech

Edmure Should Have Got It

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3 minutes ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

So... the evidence for Edmure's incompetence thus far:

  •  
  • Not shooting a flaming arrow into his father's boat. Because shooting an arrow is relevant to Kingship how?
  •  

And incompetent fighter as well.  :D

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1 minute ago, Erkan12 said:

Robb doesn't need to share his plans with his subjects. He is their king. He said don't risk a battle and stay at Riverrun.

Edmure risked a battle for a damn mill, and lost plenty of men when they already didn't have enough men. 

Yes, as Blackfish says, Edmure is an idiot.

He said "hold Riverrun." Edmure held Riverrun.

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Just now, Erkan12 said:

And incompetent fighter as well.  :D

Because Bran is a great fighter? If all the council cared about was fighting, they ought to have given the crown to Brienne.

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Just now, The Marquis de Leech said:

Edmure held the castle.. and won the skirmish. It was Robb's own fault for not being specific. 

Oh, and Edmure agreed to take a Frey wife to cover up Robb's subsequent and fatal screw-up. 

You must be trolling. Kings doesn't need to explain their orders, do you even know how the chain of command works in an army? :D 

Edmure is an idiot at everything, Robb just made political mistakes, he was going good in the war until Edmure the idiot shows up and messed up things.

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Yes that was a majestic piece of intrigue by Sansa as usual, piss off your uncle, now leader of a vast region. It was just for laughs too, the only thing missing was Sansa looking at the camera and a canned laugh track.

Yes he was a complete incompetent and buffoon. I could say the same about Jon, blunder after blunder. But at least this guy wants power, and after all that he did not die! He is also the right age.

If it was a vote for a puppet king, then he is perfect, so you are right. Also in a strategic middle position, known by all players, unlike the boytree Bran the cripple.

Remember silly DD actually had them offer it to Tyrion the failure, the prisoner first!

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1 minute ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

Because Bran is a great fighter? If all the council cared about was fighting, they ought to have given the crown to Brienne.

Bran has supernatural powers. He was even the no.1 target for the Night King for that reason, 

Edmure is just an idiot and incompetent at everything.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Erkan12 said:

You're clearly being delusional. The book clearly says it was Edmure's stupidity.

Their opponent have more men, Edmure had no right go to fight with Lannisters without taking any orders. He should stay and protect the Riverrun as they told him to do so, Edmure, as well as his men were all belong to Robb Stark, yet Edmure risked a battle and caused death of Robb's men for no reason. Guarding a great castle isn't staying passive, it's doing the best in that situation where they needed more men.

Blackfish calls him idiot, Cat calls him idiot. Edmure admits it was his fault at end. But Robb Star haters had to deny it. :D

The book doesn't say it, Robb and the Blackfish were saying it and they were too proud to admit it was them who were at fault. They were probably entertaining some ideas to guilt Edmure into a political marriage too. Cat never said Edmure is in the wrong in this case.

Edmure is Lord Paramount of the Riverlinds, he is supposed to defened his lands. And Robb never told him "Stay in Riverrun, and never venture out". This is not a modern war, Robb was far away and Edmure had to make decisions on his own without having the luxury of a radio communication with HQ at all times.

7 minutes ago, Erkan12 said:

Robb doesn't need to share his plans with his subjects. He is their king.

This is ridiculous. If you are the supreme commander and you leave a junior commander in charge of your forces in a region without telling him the plan which is largely based on the junior commander acting in a highly specific way, and you go somewhere where you can't communicate with them without a week passing, if not more, it's your fault and you are incompetent. Period.

Edited by David Selig

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3 minutes ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

He said "hold Riverrun." Edmure held Riverrun.

He said stay at Riverrun and don't engage a battle when they had less men than the Lannister have.

Holding a castle means staying at the castle for a potential siege, it doesn't mean you can go out and fight when you've less men than your opponent have.

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Isn't Robyn the amongst the most experienced Great Lords now? He's definitely the Longest serving lord of a great house.  If he's matured, he'd probably be the best choice. House Arryn would probably be the best choice to rule. They usually don't go to war, lack the fear of being invaded, and have relatively fewer grudges against other houses. This would make them a good choice for a fair neutral rule. It would also be thematically interesting with Jon being dead at a funeral at the beginning of the show and Robyn a split second away from being crowned at a coronation. I'm not sure if I'm saying this ironically, but screw it, it doesn't matter.

Send property gains taxes and arbitrage pricing theory though the Moon Door!!

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Just now, Erkan12 said:

He said stay at Riverrun and don't engage a battle when they had less men than the Lannister have.

Holding a castle means staying at the castle for a potential siege, it doesn't mean you can go out and fight when you've less men than your opponent have.

Holding Riverrun means holding Riverrun. Which Edmure did. Honestly, he should have pointed at the banners and said "do those look like Lannister lions to you?"

Having a chain of command doesn't obligate Edmure to be a mind-reader.

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11 minutes ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

So... the evidence for Edmure's incompetence thus far:

  • Screwing up a plan that Robb didn't tell him about (Robb asked him to hold Riverrun. He did that. Robb did not say to let Tywin pass). Oh, and bonus points for Edmure winning the actual skirmish in question.
  •  Not shooting a flaming arrow into his father's boat. Because shooting an arrow is relevant to Kingship how?
  • Being "owned by his niece in public." Of course. He's a punching bag for bad writing - and, again, Sansa had no business treating him like that.

And it's very likely Robb and Blackfish tear into him so hard over the Tywin situation because they need it as a cover for Robb's own major blunder: betraying his marriage promise to the Freys. Edmure is an easy target, and it takes the spotlight of Robb's much more serious political mistakes. 

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Ser Drewy said:

And it's very likely Robb and Blackfish tear into him so hard over the Tywin situation because they need it as a cover for Robb's own major blunder: betraying his marriage promise to the Freys. Edmure is an easy target, and it takes the spotlight of Robb's much more serious political mistakes. 

And while we're at it, Robb has a seriously bad habit of blaming others for his own mistakes. Him yelling at Theon for saving Bran's life was appalling.

Edited by The Marquis de Leech

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1 minute ago, David Selig said:

The book doesn't say it, Robb and the Blackfish were saying it and they were too proud to admit it was them who were at fault. They were probably entertaining some ideas to guilt Edmure into a political marriage too. Cat never said Edmure is in the wrong in this case.

Edmure is Lord Paramount of the Riverlinds, he is supposed to defened his lands. And Robb never told him "Stay in Riverrun, and never venture out". This is not a modern war, Robb was far away and Edmure had to make decisions on his own without having the luxury of a radio communication with HQ at all times.

This is ridiculous. If you are the supreme commander and you leave a junior commander in charge of your forces in a region without telling him the plan which is largely based on the junior commander acting in a highly specific way, and you go somewhere where you can't communicate with them without a week passing, if not more, it's your fault and you are incompetent. Period.

What do you understand of ''hold the Riverrun''? So you can go out there and fight? :D

It seems you don't know, Lannisters had more men than they had, Edmure had no right to risk the lives of Robb's men. 

Edmure is King Robb's subject, and Robb is King of the Trident as well, not only North. Edmure defied a direct order and Robb's men died for his stupiditiy.

Robb didn't need to tell him anything, hold Riverrun was more than enough. Especially risking another battle with Lannister army without getting any order from Robb was stupid.

As Blackfish says, he is an idiot.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Erkan12 said:

He said stay at Riverrun and don't engage a battle when they had less men than the Lannister have. 

The part in bold is incorrect.

Here is what a scout from the army told Cat when she came back to Riverrun from Renly"

Quote

“Would that it were. My brother commands in Riverrun?”

“Yes, my lady. His Grace left Ser Edmure to hold Riverrun and guard his rear.”

Good older thread on this topic -

 

Edited by David Selig

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2 minutes ago, Ser Drewy said:

And it's very likely Robb and Blackfish tear into him so hard over the Tywin situation because they need it as a cover for Robb's own major blunder: betraying his marriage promise to the Freys. Edmure is an easy target, and it takes the spotlight of Robb's much more serious political mistakes. 

If you think Blackfish would do that for that purpose, I say you're delusional.  :D According to you Blackfish is kind of LF politician not a legendary knight. 

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3 minutes ago, Erkan12 said:

What do you understand of ''hold the Riverrun''? So you can go out there and fight? :D

It seems you don't know, Lannisters had more men than they had, Edmure had no right to risk the lives of Robb's men. 

Edmure is King Robb's subject, and Robb is King of the Trident as well, not only North. Edmure defied a direct order and Robb's men died for his stupiditiy. 

Quote that direct order Edmure "defied".

Also, the lives Edmure risked were Riverland lords and knights who were begging him for permission to defend their lands. And he smartly used the rvier to negate the Lannister numbers advantage,

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If you think that it's okay to ignore a direct order to not engage in battle, simply because the ends (capturing a mill) justify the means (though even then, they don't, since they directly hurt the war effort) then you don't understand war strategy, at all. Let alone the supreme unquestionable rule of absolute monarchy in medieval society.

 

If a general tells a platoon to hold a ridge, and they instead decide that the nearby village is a better goal; then they take it, but the enemy catches the special ops team, that was undercover, behind enemy lines, as a result, that platoon is reprimanded, and dressed down. They don't get commendations for their actions. Strategy is on a need to know basis. And Edmure didn't need to know. Period. 

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2 minutes ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

Good thing Robb didn't give any such order.

Hold riverrun, and don't risk your men, while the lannisters hold the greater strength on the field, is absolutely a direct order. You're being willfully ignorant, if you argue otherwise

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Just now, Blaer Dayle said:

Hold riverrun, and don't risk your men, while the lannisters hold the greater strength on the field, is absolutely a direct order. You're being willfully ignorant, if you argue otherwise

"Hold Riverrun, and guard the rear."

Which he did. Your notion of "direct order" seems to involve adding stuff that wasn't there, then blaming the junior commander for not being a mind-reader.

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