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The Marquis de Leech

Edmure Should Have Got It

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Sansa had no business treating her uncle in that manner. The guy had genuinely suffered, presiding over the part of the realm that was most screwed by the War of the Five Kings. He'd have made a decent King himself, having the maturity, experience, and compassion to actually do the job. Bonus political points for the fact that he's not an alien kid who worships trees, but a conventional follower of the Seven, with capacity to produce children.

The treatment of Edmure on the show has always been criminal, and bringing him back just to abuse him (again) was appalling.

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Edmure is incompetent, they showed us many times before, what show you were watching?

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In the books at least he was not incompetent at all, but the show has always treated him as a bumbling fool, when they remembered he exists at all. For some reason.

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Are you referring to when everyone expected him to lose, so they neglected to inform Edmure has was supposed to lose? Or when he took smallfolk into Riverrun rather than let them get slaughtered? Or what exactly? I know some of the characters think him a fool, too (Cat for instance), but that's their mistake. He seemed nothing of the sort to me.

Granted, it has been a while since I read the books, so I could be forgetting something.

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Just now, Mikkel said:

In the books at least he was not incompetent at all, but the show has always treated him as a bumbling fool, when they remembered he exists at all. For some reason.

Yes he is a bigger fool in the books,

He is even bigger fool for the mistake he did in the War, he didn't follow the orders of Robb and he went to face with the Lannister forces, and it was not the Mountain he has stopped, it was Tywin, and the same Tywin was going to follow Robb at the Westerlands, instead Tywin had to return back thanks to Edmure, and then thanks to LF, they joined forces with the Tyrells and saved the KL from Stannis.

He also made stupid mistakes like sending Riverlords back at their lands in the books, both Blackfish and Catelyn calls him idiot and that he is.

He certainly deserved that treatment, to think that he could be the leader of them, it was funny.

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Edmure is stupid, weak and incompetent and not worth much. He regards himself much higher than anyone else regards him. We were shown his incompetence again and again. 

It was funny that they made this little joke about him and they finally showed that he survived and is the head of House Tullys and Riverland now. 

Edmure was not able to shoot the arrow to ignite his father's funeral pyre boat. He made the mistake of capturing Stone Mill and probably costs Robb winning the war. In S6 Edmure later the gates of Riverrun to the Lannister troops.

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1 minute ago, Erkan12 said:

He is even bigger fool for the mistake he did in the War, he didn't follow the orders of Robb and he went to face with the Lannister forces, and it was not the Mountain he has stopped, it was Tywin, and the same Tywin was going to follow Robb at the Westerlands, instead Tywin had to return back thanks to Edmure, and then thanks to LF, they joined forces with the Tyrells and saved the KL from Stannis.

Yes, but Robb forgot to tell Edmure any of that. The mistake is Robb's more than anyone else's.

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Just now, Mikkel said:

Yes, but Robb forgot to tell Edmure any of that. The mistake is Robb's more than anyone else's.

Robb is KING. Edmure is his subject. Robb doesn't need to tell him anything but to stay and guard the Riverrun.

Instead he went and faced with the Lannisters forces against Robb's orders.

It was purely Edmure's stupidity, which is why Blackfish also calls him idiot.

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2 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Yes, but Robb forgot to tell Edmure any of that. The mistake is Robb's more than anyone else's.

I’d say it’s sort of say there is a bit of blame on both sides.

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Just now, Erkan12 said:

It was purely Edmure's stupidity, which is why Blackfish also calls him idiot.

Right, and the Blackfish know how the world works. 

The two are the prefect competence vs incompetence pair.

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1 minute ago, Erkan12 said:

Robb is KING.

Irrelevant. No-one is saying Edmure wouldn't or shouldn't follow his orders. But those orders were neither exhaustive nor explicit.

2 minutes ago, Erkan12 said:

Robb doesn't need to tell him anything but to stay and guard the Riverrun.

Of course he does, if he wants his bannermen to be able to react to changing circumstances, he needs to explain his strategies to some level of detail.

But of course it's easier (not to mention more convenient) to make stupid Edmure the scapegoat rather than the brilliant Young Wolf.

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18 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Irrelevant. No-one is saying Edmure wouldn't or shouldn't follow his orders. But those orders were neither exhaustive nor explicit.

Of course he does, if he wants his bannermen to be able to react to changing circumstances, he needs to explain his strategies to some level of detail.

But of course it's easier (not to mention more convenient) to make stupid Edmure the scapegoat rather than the brilliant Young Wolf.

Lmao, are you serious? Since when the kings have to explain their orders? :D 

Yes Edmure is an idiot, everyone says that. Hating Robb Stark will not change that fact.

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Posted (edited)

Sansa shouldn't be allowed to call anyone out for being dumb after all of her idiotic acts throughout the series.

Also, in the books it was clearly Robb's fault. He told Edmure to protect Riverrun and Edmure did just that. Everycommander knows that you should take advantage of opportunity to use terrain to your advantage if you have the capability for this instead of staying passively and allowing the enemy to cross a river without resistance. Not Edmure's fault Robb didn't inform him about his "genius" plan.

Edited by David Selig

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, David Selig said:

 

Also, in the books it was clearly Robb's fault. He told Edmure to protect Riverrun and Edmure did just that. Everycommander knows that you should take advantage of opportunity to use terrain to your advantage if you have the capability for this instead of staying passively and allowing the enemy to cross a river without resistance. Not Edmure's fault Robb didn't inform him about his "genius" plan.

You're clearly being delusional. The book clearly says it was Edmure's stupidity.

Their opponent have more men, Edmure had no right to go and fight with the Lannisters without taking any orders. He should stay and protect the Riverrun as they told him to do so, Edmure, as well as his river men were all belong to King Robb Stark, yet Edmure foolishly risked a battle and caused the death of Robb's men for no reason. Guarding a great castle such as Riverrun isn't staying passive, it's doing the best in that situation where they needed more men than the Lannisters have.

Blackfish calls him idiot, Catelyn calls him idiot. Edmure admits it was his fault at end. But no, Robb Stark haters had to deny it. :D

Edited by Erkan12

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So... the evidence for Edmure's incompetence thus far:

  • Screwing up a plan that Robb didn't tell him about (Robb asked him to hold Riverrun. He did that. Robb did not say to let Tywin pass). Oh, and bonus points for Edmure winning the actual skirmish in question.
  • Not shooting a flaming arrow into his father's boat. Because shooting an arrow is relevant to Kingship how?
  • Being "owned by his niece in public." Of course. He's a punching bag for bad writing - and, again, Sansa had no business treating him like that.

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Just now, The Marquis de Leech said:

So... the evidence for Edmure's incompetence thus far:

  • Screwing up a plan that Robb didn't tell him about (Robb asked him to hold Riverrun. He did that. Robb did not say to let Tywin pass). Oh, and bonus points for Edmure winning the actual skirmish in question.
  •  

Robb doesn't need to share his plans with his subjects. He is their king. He said don't risk a battle and stay at Riverrun.

Edmure risked a battle for a damn mill, and lost plenty of men when they already didn't have enough men. 

Yes, as Blackfish says, Edmure is an idiot.

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3 minutes ago, Erkan12 said:

You're clearly being delusional. The book clearly says it was Edmure's stupidity.

Their opponent have more men, Edmure had no right to go and fight with the Lannisters without taking any orders. He should stay and protect the Riverrun as they told him to do so, Edmure, as well as his river men were all belong to King Robb Stark, yet Edmure foolishly risked a battle and caused the death of Robb's men for no reason. Guarding a great castle such as Riverrun isn't staying passive, it's doing the best in that situation where they needed more men the Lannister have.

Blackfish calls him idiot, Catelyn calls him idiot. Edmure admits it was his fault at end. But no, Robb Stark haters had to deny it. :D

Edmure held the castle.. and won the skirmish. It was Robb's own fault for not being specific. 

Oh, and Edmure agreed to take a Frey wife to cover up Robb's subsequent and fatal screw-up. 

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