Bradam Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 Greyworm held the city, and was head of all Danys armies. i failed to see how he wasnt number 1 in charge. He drags out Tyrion, tells him to shut up, then... Greyworm shuts up. and the guy on trial talks anyways, tells everyone what to do.. and.. they listen. What was more baffling to me was how was Jon still alive at this point? Greyworm would have instantly executed him on discovering he killed Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aedam Targaryen Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Bradam said: Greyworm held the city, and was head of all Danys armies. i failed to see how he wasnt number 1 in charge. He drags out Tyrion, tells him to shut up, then... Greyworm shuts up. and the guy on trial talks anyways, tells everyone what to do.. and.. they listen. What was more baffling to me was how was Jon still alive at this point? Greyworm would have instantly executed him on discovering he killed Dany. Yes. Greyworm was being tough because Jon was his prisoner and his army was in control of the city. Until Tyrion says ‘we should pick a king’. Then suddenly Greyworm is cool with that plan. Greyworm; “You are not in charge. I am in charge. I control this city.” Tyrion; “Maybe someone else should be in charge.” Greyworm; “ok.” Dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFL Posted May 21, 2019 Author Share Posted May 21, 2019 It kind of baffled me as well. The first time they mention it takes time to travel (weeks is mentioned) and this is the time to bring it up. There are one of two things that happened when Greyworm attacked the surrendering Laninister troops in episode 5: Either he has a temper and was seeking revenge for Messandi which he then does not care about for his queen OR Danaerys torching the city was planned and she had told Greyworm to take no prisoners. It had to be the later considering how impotent he had become in enforcing his rule - either telling Tyrion to shut up or executing Jon. I mean you have let them both just hang out for weeks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aedam Targaryen Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 52 minutes ago, Blooddragon said: Is it possible that all other Lords died in the wars and that only 10-ish Houses made it to the end? This seems to be what they want us to believe. If you aren’t on screen, you don’t exist. It’s just like when a female Dornish bastard killed their prince and she was suddenly in charge. When we all know there is a list of other noble Dornish houses that wouldn’t have stood for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldarion Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 23 minutes ago, RFL said: Judging by the amount of Unsullied and Dothraki assembled we either did not have the full armies assembled at Winterfell, they breed and produce soldiers like rabbits, or.... the northern army is subject to the same plot armor as the Unsullied. Grey Worm negotiating is evidence the northern army was large enough to present a threat to his forces Going by the books here, but North is so large and inhospitable that they had significant forces left even after all the disasters they suffered through the books. They are essentially Russia of Westeros: they may not have the largest army in the field at any given time, but they always have reserves. So it is possible for the North to still have significant forces left, even if it is a bit of a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoplexy Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 I still want to know who those random people were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoplexy Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 2 hours ago, RFL said: The great meeting of minds to "elect" Brann king was never an election. Think about it. The great northern army was large enough to force the Unsullied and Dothraki to negotiate despite their incredible numbers. Apparently those northerners produce soldiers QUICKLY, at least as quickly as the Unsullied masses. When Yara spoke up against what the Starks wanted Arya threatened to slit her throat and not one person seemed willing, or able, to stop her. When Edmure began speaking Sansa told him to sit down and shut up and he did. Brann, when asked by Tyrion of he would be king, noted it was why he came all that way and when Sansa said the north would not kneel there was not even an objection raised. This was not meeting and discussion. The Starks made demands, enforced them with an army or with personal threats, and rule as they wanted. Even Jon gets to go off to be the bastard he always wanted to be. They went from a monarchy to an oligarchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNecromancerofMirkwood Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 Ummm...why wasn't The Faith represented at this Great Council? And weren't The Iron Islands already independent by that point? There was no reason for Dorne, the Iron Islands or The North to remain in the 7 Kingdoms. They could have been independent Principalities/Grand Duchies ala The Holy Roman Empire. As to the Unsullied, how were they feeding themselves? If we're talking 4k Unsullied and how many ever Dothraki, how were they eating? Their baggage trains would have all been OUTSIDE THE WALLS with the Northmen. The harbor would have been under the control of the Northmen as well. So please, how the hell could the Unsullied have dictated ANY terms? And isn't Arya a fully trained Faceless Man? Why couldn't she simply sneak in and free Jon (and even Tyrion who could show them the remaining secret passages in/out out of The Red Keep)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajjo Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 Just now, Apoplexy said: They went from a monarchy to an oligarchy. No, it is still a monarchy. They are still ruled by a king. It went from a hereditary monarchy to an elected monarchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bold Barry Whitebeard Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Aedam Targaryen said: Yes. Greyworm was being tough because Jon was his prisoner and his army was in control of the city. Until Tyrion says ‘we should pick a king’. Then suddenly Greyworm is cool with that plan. Greyworm; “You are not in charge. I am in charge. I control this city.” Tyrion; “Maybe someone else should be in charge.” Greyworm; “ok.” Dumb. Not only that, but... Greyworm: He (Tyrion) needs to be punished. Bran: "...He will spend the rest of his life fixing his mistakes" Greyworm: "It is not enough...just kidding, it is enough. Excuse me while I fuck off to Naath." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late to the Game Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 Why are we assuming the purpose of the council was to choose a new king/queen? The concept wasn't even introduced until Tyrion told Grey Worm he didn't get to decide what became of Jon. And everyone acted like the thought had never occurred to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutralbhad Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 The last book was originally called A Time For Wolves. So the Starks probably get their vengeance and power restored in the last 2 books. I don't know why anyone is that shocked by the ending we got. Bran was the first major POV character and King Robert even said "you'll be a King". People thought it was a joke but it was extremely subtle foreshadowing. As I've been saying elsewhere the execution wasn't good writing wise but the overall ending was good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blooddragon Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 13 minutes ago, neutralbhad said: The last book was originally called A Time For Wolves. So the Starks probably get their vengeance and power restored in the last 2 books. I don't know why anyone is that shocked by the ending we got. Bran was the first major POV character and King Robert even said "you'll be a King". People thought it was a joke but it was extremely subtle foreshadowing. As I've been saying elsewhere the execution wasn't good writing wise but the overall ending was good. I want justice and revange for the Starks and I want them to be the main players, but this was too much or too little for me to take. They did not deserve this. They had satisfying storylines untill the end of season 4, later everything started going downward. Storylines went nowhere, there was no real character build-up. There were countless possibilities with the Last Greenseer, the Faceless Man and Littlefinger, but all we got is rushed storyline and "the pack survives" just to have them all leave one another and become lone wolves. The books would handle them much better, but... you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 9 hours ago, King Jon Snow Stark said: She even says the reason it would not work out is because of Dany. Tyrion and Sansa might be making babies now. Lol. And folks were saying how there "couldn't be" any more Lannisters or Starks, hah! Take two, they're small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 8 hours ago, RFL said: In violation of the faith of the six kingdoms (the North widely held to the old gods). Since when does the Faith of the Seven have anything to say about whether you've been born a skinchanger? What you believe does not matter. It's only your blood that matters. This isn't some moral choice that the Faith can filly-fally about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 3 hours ago, neutralbhad said: The last book was originally called A Time For Wolves. So the Starks probably get their vengeance and power restored in the last 2 books. I don't know why anyone is that shocked by the ending we got. Bran was the first major POV character and King Robert even said "you'll be a King". People thought it was a joke but it was extremely subtle foreshadowing. As I've been saying elsewhere the execution wasn't good writing wise but the overall ending was good. Well put. Three monarchs made and two (or was it three) slain. Not a bad tally for Ned's little family, wouldn't you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 10 hours ago, 420faceless said: Bran warged Tyrion, duh Don't you remember Bran and Tyrion discussing all this in that long-ass powwow the two of them had alone together in E2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 11 hours ago, TheFirstofHerName said: It definitely was a rubber stamp for Bran. Why weren’t they more skeptical of the Three Eyed Raven and who exactly he really was and his motives. The 3ER could prove just as dangerous as Daenerys long term with his powers of warging and shaping events according to what he sees best. I had more issue with how everyone in the North and Vale just blindly believed Jon's story about the White Walkers back in season 7. Apparently Jon and the wildings said they were true, so that makes them true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jon Snow Stark Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, sifth said: I had more issue with how everyone in the North and Vale just blindly believed Jon's story about the White Walkers back in season 7. Apparently Jon and the wildings said they were true, so that makes them true. They also believed he was resurrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallam Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 12 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said: Why was Arya or Brienne and Davos, both friends of the Stark family, there in the first place? The Starks essentially got 4 votes for no reason. I can imagine the new Dornish Prince looking at the other lords, going "did you know we could bring friends and family? My invitation said nothing about plus ones!" Arya killed the Night King and can slit any of their throats if she chooses. So she gets a seat at any table she wants. Brienne led the army in the field against the AoD. Davos is going to be needed as he is the only one there with naval experience. Which is pretty important when your primary concern is how to ship the Dothraki and Unsullied somewhere else. 11 hours ago, KingMudd said: The threats made by Sansa and Arya where about stopping people from killing Jon not about who was going to be King. Tyrion nominated Bran and the others said yes. They all could have disagreed and the meeting would have went on. Tyrion did more than that. The very first thing he does is to establish that the monarchy will be elective from this point on. 9 hours ago, Bradam said: Greyworm held the city, and was head of all Danys armies. i failed to see how he wasnt number 1 in charge. He drags out Tyrion, tells him to shut up, then... Greyworm shuts up. and the guy on trial talks anyways, tells everyone what to do.. and.. they listen. What was more baffling to me was how was Jon still alive at this point? Greyworm would have instantly executed him on discovering he killed Dany. Greyworm is accustomed to following orders. He is not someone who is skilled in strategy or formulating long term plans. Also Greyworm wants out of Westeros as soon as possible. He is looking for someone to tell him what to do so he can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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