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The "council" was simply a rubber stamp

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The great meeting of minds to "elect" Brann king was never an election.  

Think about it.  The great northern army was large enough to force the Unsullied and Dothraki to negotiate despite their incredible numbers.  Apparently those northerners produce soldiers QUICKLY, at least as quickly as the Unsullied masses.

When Yara spoke up against what the Starks wanted Arya threatened to slit her throat and not one person seemed willing, or able, to stop her.  When Edmure began speaking Sansa told him to sit down and shut up and he did.  Brann, when asked by Tyrion of he would be king, noted it was why he came all that way and when Sansa said the north would not kneel there was not even an objection raised.  

This was not meeting and discussion.   The Starks made demands, enforced them with an army or with personal threats, and rule as they wanted.  Even Jon gets to go off to be the bastard he always wanted to be.  

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Why was Arya or Brienne and Davos, both friends of the Stark family, there in the first place? The Starks essentially got 4 votes for no reason. I can imagine the new Dornish Prince looking at the other lords, going "did you know we could bring friends and family? My invitation said nothing about plus ones!"

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, RFL said:

The great meeting of minds to "elect" Brann king was never an election.  

Think about it.  The great northern army was large enough to force the Unsullied and Dothraki to negotiate despite their incredible numbers.  Apparently those northerners produce soldiers QUICKLY, at least as quickly as the Unsullied masses.

When Yara spoke up against what the Starks wanted Arya threatened to slit her throat and not one person seemed willing, or able, to stop her.  When Edmure began speaking Sansa told him to sit down and shut up and he did.  Brann, when asked by Tyrion of he would be king, noted it was why he came all that way and when Sansa said the north would not kneel there was not even an objection raised.  

This was not meeting and discussion.   The Starks made demands, enforced them with an army or with personal threats, and rule as they wanted.  Even Jon gets to go off to be the bastard he always wanted to be.  

The threats made by Sansa and Arya where about stopping people from killing Jon not about who was going to be King.

Tyrion nominated Bran and the others said yes. They all could have disagreed and the meeting would have went on.

Edited by KingMudd

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21 minutes ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

Why was Arya or Brienne and Davos, both friends of the Stark family, there in the first place? The Starks essentially got 4 votes for no reason. I can imagine the new Dornish Prince looking at the other lords, going "did you know we could bring friends and family? My invitation said nothing about plus ones!"

lol, I thought the same, he not even had some random old dudes like the others

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It definitely was a rubber stamp for Bran.  Why weren’t they more skeptical of the Three Eyed Raven and who exactly he really was and his motives.  The 3ER could prove just as dangerous as Daenerys long term with his powers of warging and shaping events according to what he sees best.  

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, RFL said:

The great meeting of minds to "elect" Brann king was never an election.  

Think about it.  The great northern army was large enough to force the Unsullied and Dothraki to negotiate despite their incredible numbers.  Apparently those northerners produce soldiers QUICKLY, at least as quickly as the Unsullied masses.

When Yara spoke up against what the Starks wanted Arya threatened to slit her throat and not one person seemed willing, or able, to stop her.  When Edmure began speaking Sansa told him to sit down and shut up and he did.  Brann, when asked by Tyrion of he would be king, noted it was why he came all that way and when Sansa said the north would not kneel there was not even an objection raised.  

This was not meeting and discussion.   The Starks made demands, enforced them with an army or with personal threats, and rule as they wanted.  Even Jon gets to go off to be the bastard he always wanted to be.  

All the end was pro Stark. The Dragon, the Dothraki, the Unsullied, the common sense and all the previous history evaporated. No meaning to try to make a meaning. 

Edited by Nightwish

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4 minutes ago, Saturno said:

lol, I thought the same, he not even had some random old dudes like the others

Brienne is a Lady and representing her house.  Davos is a Lord representing his house.  Arya didn't vote.

Personally, I think Davos would have been the best choice, but that's just my opinion.

I don't think the North really forced anything and they were all trying to avoid another civil war.

The biggest issue that I had with the scene was Sansa declaring independence but the Iron Islands and Dorne just went along with it.

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I don't think the North really forced anything and they were all trying to avoid another civil war.

Of course they were.   The northern army was camped outside the city ready to invade to free Jon or to invade and kill the Unsullied and Dothraki if he was executed and apparently they were enough of a threat to get Grey Worm to negotiate.  Grey Worm - the guy we just saw kill soldiers who had surrendered in retribution for Missandei last episode and who executed members of the Golden Company.  The same person who when Jon questioned those executions showed a display of force.  

Meanwhile, inside, Arya was threatening those on the council personally.  Even discuss executing Jon and she was going to slit people's throat.  

This was not a negotiation or a council.  This was getting agreement under duress.  The other lords and ladies had no power backing them to object to anything the Starks put forward even if it was ultimately Tyrion who served as the mouthpiece.  Who's idea do you think it was to bring Tyrion out anyways?  

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This was another scene--like Dany appearing before the gates of KL in epi 4--that was just so unrealistic for this to be happening that I spent the first half of the scene wondering whose dream it was supposed to be. I kept asking my wife "Where in the hell did all these people come from? Why? Who assembled this meeting? And why on God's green earth is Sansa in charge?"

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23 minutes ago, Vuron said:

Brienne is a Lady and representing her house.  Davos is a Lord representing his house.  Arya didn't vote.

 Personally, I think Davos would have been the best choice, but that's just my opinion.

 I don't think the North really forced anything and they were all trying to avoid another civil war.

 The biggest issue that I had with the scene was Sansa declaring independence but the Iron Islands and Dorne just went along with it.

So, House Tarth and House Seaworth are suddenly the most important houses in the Stormlands and more important than Houses Manderly, Hightower, Redwyne, Rowan (only one Reach Lord is present), Yronwood, Grafton, Corbray...?

Brienne is not even Lady Tarth, no one reported her father's death. She is Sansa's protector and thus sworn to the Starks. 

If I remember correctly, Davos is a Lord only in the books, show still calles him Ser Davos, wich means he's not important enough to be there. He has small lands which he never visits and never talks about. Houses like Swann, Caron and Penrose would f*** him up. 

House Stark has three members participating in this meeting - Sansa, who is Lady of House Stark, and her two siblings who have no reason to be there, only, maybe, to keep her company and/or protect her. 

Is Sam suddenly the Lord of House Tarly? Did he forgot that he has an oath? We've all seen that the Night's Watch is still active. 

Is it possible that all other Lords died in the wars and that only 10-ish Houses made it to the end? 

And also... Suddenly everyone is ok with Sansa (a Northern woman) to be in charge while other Southorn old men are listening to what she says and no one says a word?

Great Council means that all Lords of the Seven Kingdoms gather in the one place and discuss the succession, which wasn't the case here.

As we can see, this "council" makes us even more confused and makes us only question the ability of those who wrote it. 

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1 hour ago, RFL said:

The great meeting of minds to "elect" Brann king was never an election.  

Think about it.  The great northern army was large enough to force the Unsullied and Dothraki to negotiate despite their incredible numbers.  Apparently those northerners produce soldiers QUICKLY, at least as quickly as the Unsullied masses.

When Yara spoke up against what the Starks wanted Arya threatened to slit her throat and not one person seemed willing, or able, to stop her.  When Edmure began speaking Sansa told him to sit down and shut up and he did.  Brann, when asked by Tyrion of he would be king, noted it was why he came all that way and when Sansa said the north would not kneel there was not even an objection raised.  

This was not meeting and discussion.   The Starks made demands, enforced them with an army or with personal threats, and rule as they wanted.  Even Jon gets to go off to be the bastard he always wanted to be.  

Yup. Two Stark monarches, a new Stark ship Captain and possibly a Stark as Lord Commander of the NW which is a military order and if Jon actually left then a Stark as a leader of the Free Folk. It was a Stark coup 

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The only people "allowed" to talk without being told to sit down or threatened to have their throats slit were Sansa and her past husband.  A husband it should be noted that she seemed to bond with more as the show progressed (which was a reasonable arc considering that he treated her well).  

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She even says the reason it would not work out is because of Dany. Tyrion and Sansa might be making babies now. Lol.

3 minutes ago, RFL said:

The only people "allowed" to talk without being told to sit down or threatened to have their throats slit were Sansa and her past husband.  A husband it should be noted that she seemed to bond with more as the show progressed (which was a reasonable arc considering that he treated her well).  

 

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8 minutes ago, Blooddragon said:

Great Council means that all Lords of the Seven Kingdoms gather in the one place and discuss the succession, which wasn't the case here. As we can see, this "council" makes us even more confused and makes us only question the ability of those who wrote it. 

In this point I agree. There should have been representatives of more houses, not only those few individuals we knew.

8 minutes ago, Blooddragon said:

House Stark has three members participating in this meeting - Sansa, who is Lady of House Stark, and her two siblings who have no reason to be there, only, maybe, to keep her company and/or protect her. 

You seem to forget the Great War. Arya is the main hero, having killed the Nightking and effectively saved them all, she has all right there is to participate in finding a new ruler. Bran is recognised as the three-eyed raven. Sansa participates as Lady of Winterfell. Brienne participates as the one surviving knight of the Great War and one of it's leading commanders.

I agree there should have been more representatives, but to moan about those who are present, is not justified. More not less.

 

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2 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

You seem to forget the Great War. Arya is the main hero, having killed the Nightking and effectively saved them all, she has all right there is to participate in finding a new ruler. Bran is recognised as the three-eyed raven. Sansa participates as Lady of Winterfell. Brienne participates as the one surviving knight of the Great War and one of it's leading commanders.

 I agree there should have been more representatives, but to moan about those who are present, is not justified. More not less.

 

I actually didn't mean to undermine their actions, but I feel like the Great Council is not a place where everyone who did something important would have a word and a voice.

If we include the 3ER and the person who assasinated the whole army of the dead as the people who have much importance in the South, where they did not even believe that those things existed, than we should include the High Septon, maesters and on and on and on. They wouldn't let two Northern kids to decide about the future of the Kingdoms, no matter what those kids did. Southern politics are a lot more than that. 

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It's just one more stupid thing among stupid things.

I don't agree about Starks forcing anyone's hand. Unless they breed like rabbits and grow like show dragons there is no way that there was a Northern army outside that would hafe beaten the 3-4k unsullied left. Let alone whatever was left of the dothraki "in the open field". They might have had 2-3k if we are being generous. Sansa was just huffing and puffing.

But there should have been more houses. That is a very real point. Even if we disregard the fact that so few houses actually are represented in the show - surely they could have done better with more placeholder lords and just dropping names of the houses.

The most stupid thing was that the others just accepted The North. If they wanted it they should have shown Sansa making deals for it with the others before the meeting ever took place. Mr. Dorne would never have accepted it and neither would have Yara - they are clear as day, but realistically no one would. Bran was not a King yet, just to take care of it with that nod, as the voting was still going on as Sansa was proposing to withdraw from the vote and the Seven Kingdoms.

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Bran is recognised as the three-eyed raven

In violation of the faith of the six kingdoms (the North widely held to the old gods).  The faith that had people flocking to it, was militarizing the common folk (remember them standing off Tyrell and Jaime at the sept), and had countless members turned into martyrs by the last monarch to protect a high family.  A faith, which by the way, certainly had followers outside of the capital.  I'm not sure this recognition is as powerful as one would think and, if it is, the three eyed raven failed to prevent the destruction of King's Landing and had aligned itself with the very perpetrator of it.  

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Posted (edited)
Quote

Unless they breed like rabbits and grow like show dragons there is no way that there was a Northern army outside that would hafe beaten the 3-4k unsullied left. Let alone whatever was left of the dothraki "in the open field".

Judging by the amount of Unsullied and Dothraki assembled we either did not have the full armies assembled at Winterfell, they breed and produce soldiers like rabbits, or.... the northern army is subject to the same plot armor as the Unsullied.  

Grey Worm negotiating is evidence the northern army was large enough to present a threat to his forces

Edited by RFL

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