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Samwell as Grand Maester

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Anyone having thoughts on Samwell being Grand Maester? If he's Grand Maester he won't be able to be with Gilly or Little Sam anymore.

 

Samwell is hardly a good candidate for Grand Maester.

Julian Glover who portrayed Pycelle told us he didn't want to be in Game of Thrones any longer, that's why he was killed off in the show, though he likely would've died before the Season 8 final.

There wasn't enough time in the show to have a suitable Grand Maester appointed i guess.

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Posted (edited)

It's hard to say without knowing ground rules of the universe, if any rules exist at all in the show. 

--Maesters train to forge links to earn their title. Luwin established that much (to Bran, no less) in S1 or S2. I dont recall Sam forging any before he quit. A prerequisite to being GM is being a Maester first, no?  

--GMs are elected by the Citadel. But this leads me to assume the current ruler simply hand picks whoever he/she wants. (A bit counterintuitive to the semi-democracy backdrop)

--Silly technicalities and millenia-old traditions aside, we're left to wonder about Sam from a family standpoint. Two episodes ago Gilly was expecting.  Now if Kings can make GMs, then who's to say GMs cant keep their surnames, get married, have babies, have lordships, etc.?  

In the end, we arent supposed to care about any of this. It's one of many victims of them rushing the show to its end, in favor of a less detail oriented, action-packed vehicle like Star Wars. It is what it is. 
 

Edited by ComfyLettuce
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Thank you! Yet another dumb thing that happened cause that's what D&D wanted. Did Sam somehow go back to the citadel and forge a chain to become GM in time for King Bran? Utterly as ridiculous as King Bran.

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It makes me wonder what the writers thought he was representing in the Dragonpit meeting?  He wasn't dressed as a maester, so I assumed he was now the bigshot from House Tarly. Now I wonder if the writers put that much thought into it.

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Just another example of D&D not giving a s*** about the story any more.  The only explanation is that King Bran commanded it so it is so.   Yeah, that’s always the best way to kick off your reign - making exceptions to long enduring customs and rules that govern one of the oldest institutions in your kingdom all so you can have your own hand picked GM because, well, you’re king and you get what you want. 

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1 hour ago, JohnWyatt said:

It makes me wonder what the writers thought he was representing in the Dragonpit meeting?  He wasn't dressed as a maester, so I assumed he was now the bigshot from House Tarly. Now I wonder if the writers put that much thought into it.

 

Given who attended the Dragonpit meeting (mostly Starks, Stark friends, relatives, allies) and what they decided, and why anyone other than Sansa listened to Tyrion, much less voted in his choice for king (To the rest of Westeros, Tyrion is the Kin-slaying regicide Imp), I'm sure that the writers didn't put much thought into the scene.

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Craster Jr will inherit Horn Hill so that frees up Sam to sit on the council as GM. I hope if DnD ever write again they choose something where they have 100% of the story already completed and they dont have to make decisions. 

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15 minutes ago, The Last Storm said:

Craster Jr will inherit Horn Hill so that frees up Sam to sit on the council as GM.

That's Craster’s son and grandson, and maybe even great-grandson for all we know.

If you think the Targaryens’ inbreeding was a problem, just look at what became of the babe’s brothers.

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14 hours ago, Raksha 2014 said:
15 hours ago, JohnWyatt said:

It makes me wonder what the writers thought he was representing in the Dragonpit meeting?  He wasn't dressed as a maester, so I assumed he was now the bigshot from House Tarly. Now I wonder if the writers put that much thought into it.

 

Given who attended the Dragonpit meeting (mostly Starks, Stark friends, relatives, allies) and what they decided, and why anyone other than Sansa listened to Tyrion, much less voted in his choice for king (To the rest of Westeros, Tyrion is the Kin-slaying regicide Imp), I'm sure that the writers didn't put much thought into the scene.

Sam is just another character botched by lazy, thoughtless writing. They had 2 choices, either
a) Sam becomes Lord Tarly with Gilly & baby and rules over Horn Hill, helping Bronn lead the reach... OR 
b) Sam stays at the Citadel throughout S7+S8 and ends up as a maester somewhere, maybe at the Wall or Winterfell or Horn Hill, but NOT grand maester.  

Instead he does lots of things that contradict each other so we get an ending that couldn't possibly occur in Westeros: 

  • Sam LEAVES the Citadel in a huff in S7, basically a decision that means he could never become a Maester, much less a Grand Maester..... but then he ends up as a Grand Maester? 
  • Sam appears to "vote" as Lord Tarly at the (not-so-great) Council, not as a Maester..... so you're saying he's pretending to be Lord long enough to vote for King Bran, but then he immediately resigns to become a Maester.... ugh this makes no sense. 
  • Sam & Gilly pretend they have a bastard together, and are having another child... Sam should have to decide, does he want to continue his dream of becoming a Maester? Or continue being with Gilly? Its a binary choice. No way anyone in Westeros could do both....  but Sam does both? 

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On 5/21/2019 at 6:39 PM, ComfyLettuce said:

It's hard to say without knowing ground rules of the universe, if any rules exist at all in the show. 

--Maesters train to forge links to earn their title. Luwin established that much (to Bran, no less) in S1 or S2. I dont recall Sam forging any before he quit. A prerequisite to being GM is being a Maester first, no?  

Quibble.  It looked like Sam did have a forged link on his chain.  Maybe 2. 

Why is Sam wearing a white robe, when other Maesters (outside the Citadel) wear black?  Pycelle, Luwin, and Wolkan all wore black.

A case could be made that Sam has learned the historical and medical knowledge required for the GM position.  But has he?

 

On 5/21/2019 at 6:39 PM, ComfyLettuce said:

--GMs are elected by the Citadel. But this leads me to assume the current ruler simply hand picks whoever he/she wants. (A bit counterintuitive to the semi-democracy backdrop)

I guess this would depend on the situations of the ruler and Citadel when such requests are made.

It's a bit of the reality not matching the ideal, perhaps.

 

On 5/21/2019 at 6:39 PM, ComfyLettuce said:

--Silly technicalities and millenia-old traditions aside, we're left to wonder about Sam from a family standpoint. Two episodes ago Gilly was expecting.  Now if Kings can make GMs, then who's to say GMs cant keep their surnames, get married, have babies, have lordships, etc.?  

True.  We have to wonder if he Citadel changed its traditions.  And if they did change, then why?

We have seen some changes to the Old Order.  A Queen in the North.  A female Lord Commander of the Kingsgaurd.  A woman even in the Kingsguard.  Great Councils at the death of each King, to choose a successor.

 

On 5/21/2019 at 6:39 PM, ComfyLettuce said:

In the end, we arent supposed to care about any of this. It's one of many victims of them rushing the show to its end, in favor of a less detail oriented, action-packed vehicle like Star Wars. It is what it is. 
 

:agree:

That or fill in the missing pieces with our own head-canon while we wait for WoW and DoS.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/21/2019 at 10:59 AM, Godfrey said:

Anyone having thoughts on Samwell being Grand Maester? If he's Grand Maester he won't be able to be with Gilly or Little Sam anymore.

 

Samwell is hardly a good candidate for Grand Maester.

Julian Glover who portrayed Pycelle told us he didn't want to be in Game of Thrones any longer, that's why he was killed off in the show, though he likely would've died before the Season 8 final.

There wasn't enough time in the show to have a suitable Grand Maester appointed i guess.

 

Pycelle book spoiler

Spoiler

Pycelle is killed by Varys at the end of A Dance With Dragons.  In a similar way to how Varys' stand-in Qyburn has Pycelle killed.  And right before Vary kills Kevan Lannister.  In the show, Pycelle is killed at about the same time as Kevan Lannister.   The lines that Qyburn says to Pycelle in the show are said by Vary to Kevan in the books. 

I find it doubtful that Pycelle was going to live for much longer in the show, regardless.

 

Re. another GM not being appointed, I took that to indicate that Cersei did not want the position filled.  Especially because the Citadel could send her someone who was not 100% loyal to her.  Cersei's 'Small Council' was down to the ever-loyal Qyburn, and she was just fine with that.  In essence, she had what she wanted - personal rule.

 

Bran wants a fully staffed Small Council, so he requests a new GM.  I suppose asking for Sam.

 

Edited by Tywin Tytosson

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Unfortunately, Sam's appointment as Grand Maester is a (presumably) royal kick in the face to the Citadel and its traditions.  Maesters are physicians, scientists, and historians; and their training takes years.  Sam wasn't qualified to be a Maester, let alone a Grand Maester.  When a king appoints a Citadel dropout to be Grand Maester, that appointment invalidates the authority and validity of the Maester title.  And it establishes Sam as a young man who is incapable of taking on a vocation or position and keeping it:  he failed as his father's heir (for which I'll give him a pass; because he never chose that role), he was sent by the Night's Watch to Oldtown to become a Maester and he became impatient with that in a few months.  Now Sam is a Grand Maester on the King's Council due to his qualifications of being the King's brother's friend and having a girlfriend who found out the secret royal origin of that friend - how long until Sam becomes tired or bored with playing politics and leaves the Council as well?  

Sam's arc in the books, incomplete as it is (so far); makes more sense.  But that could be said for most of the characters.

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1 hour ago, Tywin Tytosson said:

Quibble.  It looked like Sam did have a forged link on his chain.  Maybe 2. 

Only one . Probably for his degree in "Chamber pot draining".

Sam as GM is an insult to the lore of this universe and the audience's intelligence.

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2 hours ago, Tywin Tytosson said:

Why is Sam wearing a white robe, when other Maesters (outside the Citadel) wear black?  Pycelle, Luwin, and Wolkan all wore black.

Maesters wear grey, only aemon wore black as he was in the nights watch, hence why the mage refers to them as grey sheep.

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Yes, so much as I defended many issues, I have to admit that the Sam issue appears to simply not have been thought-through,

Sam was Lod of Hornhill in the election council and that makes a lot of sense. Gilly is pregnant, Hornhill needs a lord and he want to start a new life. The farewell scene in E4 was fine.

Sam being Grandmaester does not make a lot of sense. Of course he can be a simple maester now, honouring his contributions in all these matters. And yes, Bran can probably call any maester to be Grand Maester (as opposed to Arch Maester of the citadel), but why should he do so? Sam would have a fine life with Gilly and family in Hornhill and a better educated Maester could be new Grand Maester.

I don't see much sense in all of it. This was a mixture of fanservice and dumbness.

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2 minutes ago, massoir said:

Maesters wear grey, only aemon wore black as he was in the nights watch, hence why the mage refers to them as grey sheep.

And archmaesters (like Ambrose and the few others at the Citadel) wear off-white or light beige if I remember correctly?

Ambrose should have been the GM, it would have made sense for everyone and an opportunity to see a good actor again…

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9 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

And archmaesters (like Ambrose and the few others at the Citadel) wear off-white or light beige if I remember correctly?

Ambrose should have been the GM, it would have made sense for everyone and an opportunity to see a good actor again…

Yes that would have made sense, so thats why he wasnt :P

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Nowy Tends said:

Only one . Probably for his degree in "Chamber pot draining".

Sam as GM is an insult to the lore of this universe and the audience's intelligence.

'Insult' is a tad extreme, isn't it?

I'll admit to being surprised that Sam was GM, but I just 'went with it'.  Others I was watching with (who are not book readers) were happy for Sam.

Edit:  I did expect Sam to end up as Lord of Horn Hill.

Edited by Tywin Tytosson

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Nowy Tends said:

And archmaesters (like Ambrose and the few others at the Citadel) wear off-white or light beige if I remember correctly?

Ambrose should have been the GM, it would have made sense for everyone and an opportunity to see a good actor again…

I wouldn't have minded seeing Ebrose again.  But I doubt he wanted to leave the Citadel (he's the epitome of a Professor in his/her Ivory Tower).  So, unless the King specifically requested him, he would make sure the Citadel did not choose him as GM.

Edited by Tywin Tytosson

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