Jump to content
Tyrion1991

Jon killing Dany doesn’t work for me

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

It’s a bit like having the read the Dark Phoenix saga and you don’t care for cyclops. (Be interesting to compare Emilia and Sophie as villains BTW)

Since this is the direction GRRM is going this is a massive problem because I really do not like Jon Snow. Which, given that he kills my favourite character is adding insult to injury. Yet, in the show you are very much being put in Jon Snows shoes and the show assumes that you like him. To make his grief your grief. 

But if you don’t care for Jon that’s very difficult to do. I didn’t buy that Jon cared about Daenerys. They hadn’t shared much time together at all. He hadn’t been on a journey with her. So I didn’t feel his pain and frankly I wanted Drogon to kill him. Which is clearly not the writers intent.

Which means in the books Danys arc will rely on her loving a character I despise. Never mind foreknowledge that this guys gonna kill her.

Its actually is worse that Dany is killed by Jon. Because he represents everything I don’t like about the series. It means that GRRM considers Jon the protagonist and ultimately the story hinges on him making his decision to murder Daenerys. Then focus on his emo feelings on the matter. Which is very difficult if you’ve never liked Jon Snow.

Edited by Tyrion1991

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a very black and white ending that seems to be a final moral judgment of the characters to the extent that it tells the fandom which fan base was "right all along" and which fan base was "wrong". It does not resonate well with me at all. It's as if they jumped into a different genre: It's not Game of Thrones anymore, now it's a Fantasy Soap Opera.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the deeper problem is that it doesn't feel particularly real or earned. Conquerors in history didn't tend to be killed off by their friends they were left to finish what they started, no matter what the cost to the rest of humanity.

It introduces an element of fairy tale to a story that was always so realistic. A better ending, IMO, would for Dany to have ended up on the IT, but most of the audience to have turned against her. A warning that history's conquerors were usually not very nice people by modern standards.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, JagLover said:

A better ending, IMO, would for Dany to have ended up on the IT, but most of the audience to have turned against her. A warning that history's conquerors were usually not very nice people by modern standards.  

I love this. Dany walks up to the Iron Throne. She touches it. Then she gently sits down. Dressed in black, with snow and ash swirling around her, she stares menacingly into nothing. Camera zooms out and we see her through the broken walls of the Red Keep, then we see smoke rising from the entire city and Drogon circling it. The end.

So much better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Vanadis said:

I love this. Dany walks up to the Iron Throne. She touches it. Then she gently sits down. Dressed in black, with snow and ash swirling around her, she stares menacingly into nothing. Camera zooms out and we see her through the broken walls of the Red Keep, then we see smoke rising from the entire city and Drogon circling it. The end.

So much better.

IMHO, her ending should have been like Michael Corleone, sitting alone in the shadows, having won everything she wanted, at the cost of losing everything that mattered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, SeanF said:

IMHO, her ending should have been like Michael Corleone, sitting alone in the shadows, having won everything she wanted, at the cost of losing everything that mattered.

That could have worked if she was the sole central character to this story, she wasn't tho.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

To go into this a little deeper in terms of the mind set of the time. Jon had sworn fealty to her, and this was a pretty big deal at the time, breaking such vows was a far more extreme act than we would consider it. Consider how Jaimie was constantly reviled as a man with no honour for killing a madman about to blow up the city. Secondly Dany had done right by her liegeman, she had taken her army and helped defend his lands. Done everything therefore that a feudal overlord was supposed to do.

We the audience are supposed to then cheer Jon's actions but in the world as created it has no justification.

Edited by JagLover

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You guys, who didn't accept Jon's actions, just never understood this character. He was always a man of duty. His duty is to protect humanity. Jon just could not do otherwise.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Ilissa said:
You guys, who didn't accept Jon's actions, just never understood this character. He was always a man of duty. His duty is to protect humanity. Jon just could not do otherwise.
 

I do understand that given what Dany did, Jon would have to kill her. If not him, then someone else. My criticism is that people seemed to behave stupidly - all of them, from advisers to friends to antagonists, not to say Dany herself - in order to get to that point. If they found no way to get there except by making everyone behave as if they were stupid, then maybe they shouldn't have gone there?  

I feel that the hatred towards Dany is unjustified, because in the end she's just doing what the plot demands of her.
And to be fair, same thing goes for Jon.

I almost think Jon has been handled worse than Dany. She at least has some epic moments that we can remember her for, Jon has one epic moment at the very end and it doesn't even really work. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Ilissa said:
You guys, who didn't accept Jon's actions, just never understood this character. He was always a man of duty. His duty is to protect humanity. Jon just could not do otherwise.
 

Jon was a man of duty when was on NW and he didn`t had the hart to kill Ygritte. Same situation other reaction.

Character supposed to behave like a real person, at least that was Martin said. No heroes, no villains.

Edited by Pacala

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Pacala said:

Jon was a man of duty when was on NW and he didn`t had the hart to kill Ygritte. Same situation other reaction.

Ygritte was not likely to destroy the world in an explosion fuelled by equal parts Messiah Complex and ambition, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Pacala said:

Jon was a man of duty when was on NW and he didn`t had the hart to kill Ygritte. Same situation other reaction.

Character supposed to behave like a real person, at least that was Martin said. No heroes, no villains.

Same situation? Really? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SeanF said:

IMHO, her ending should have been like Michael Corleone, sitting alone in the shadows, having won everything she wanted, at the cost of losing everything that mattered.

The Godfather. A classic. A movie I can watch over and over again. Unlike GOT.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Vanadis said:

I do understand that given what Dany did, Jon would have to kill her. If not him, then someone else. My criticism is that people seemed to behave stupidly - all of them, from advisers to friends to antagonists, not to say Dany herself - in order to get to that point. If they found no way to get there except by making everyone behave as if they were stupid, then maybe they shouldn't have gone there?  

I feel that the hatred towards Dany is unjustified, because in the end she's just doing what the plot demands of her.
And to be fair, same thing goes for Jon.

I almost think Jon has been handled worse than Dany. She at least has some epic moments that we can remember her for, Jon has one epic moment at the very end and it doesn't even really work. 

yep jon kinda got ruined I felt he was tagging along until the very end where he killed dany. I would like to have seen more of their relationship for sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Littlefinger of the Hand said:

John is Azhor Azai and Dany is Missa Missa. After he kills her, John goes to face the great other

I was thinking this could be bran but didn't count for much in the show

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no problem Jon killing Dany. It makes a lot of sense as these are the two main characters of the story and it was all being set up for them to clash at the end in some form.

Where the problem lays is that the show did a terrible job in setting up their relationship. They meet and BOOM they are in love and its wonderful.. except you never really get to understand what it is they like about each other and it all feels incredibly false.

Contrast that to Jon and Dany's previous relationships and it all seems so hollow and contrived. 

It was a major failing of season 7. If the show is meant to hang on us believing these are two people who love each other, then when they fail to do that then the show fails.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Ygritte was not likely to destroy the world in an explosion fuelled by equal parts Messiah Complex and ambition, though.

Ygritte was the enemy.

"Love is the death of duty", "Duty is the death of love".

Usually in a fantasy story the main hero must overcome some challenges to kill the tyrant. Jon Snow failed those obstacles and in the end become a Messiah figure who self sacrifice for the greater good, which contradict everything what his creator said. No heroes, No villains. At least Danny had the illusion of grandeur, Jon had no beliefs.

Edited by Pacala

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally don't have a single problem with him killing her. I predicted it years ago, although under different circumstances. It's basically a story of a boy who sacrifices his love for the future of the realm and it's even more tragic as he kills her himself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×