Jump to content
Wolfbynature

The most important book character that did´nt made it into the tv-show

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Nevets said:

In terms of characters whose arcs are mostly complete, I would have to say Jeyne Westerling.  Her replacement by Talisa left a big hole in Robb's story, and was a butterfly that turned into a fire-breathing dragon laying waste to entire story-lines e.g., "The North Forgets" - because Robb married a foreigner.

I actually didn't have a problem with the Jeyne Westerling/Talisa Maegyr switch.

They could made things really interesting for both the Starks and Daenerys by having her family (i.e. they are slavers) turn up.

On 5/27/2019 at 5:23 AM, Wolfbynature said:

But Val. They only had to add a single person to the cast, no extra location. Just someone to add a specific facet to Jon´s personality. Just to show, how he ist acting in a romantic setting, in comparison how Daenaris handled Daario Naharis. I think, the problem with her was to find an actress that ist on the one hand attractive and talented enough, on the other hand is willing to accept little screen time and a long term engagement for not so much money. The could´nt kill her fast, because she one (IMHO the main) reason why Jon returns to the north.
 

Val?

You do realize the topic of the thread is the most important book character that didn't make it into the show

Penny the dwarf is more important to the story than Val is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

fAegon for sure. Not that he himself my be important as a character, not much chance for him being POV in Winds of Winter, but with him D&D put Dorne and Varys plot lines to the grave.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kind of a cheat, but I would say that two of the most importing missing characters are post-argument Tyrion and post-argument Jaime. I was interested when they didn't fall out at the end of Season 4 as to what that would mean moving forwards, but it turns out it just meant neither character ended up having a massively interesting arc moving forward, and honestly takes away from Tywin's death.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

fAegon definitely. In the books, it is entirely possible that news of his invasion will be what makes Daenerys finally go West; and from there it can go into a myriad of directions (fAegon instead of Cersei, fAegon instead of Jon Snow, fAegon combining roles of Cersei and Jon Snow - though personally, I believe option 1 is most likely). Whatever happens, whether he turns out to be enemy, ally, enemy-turned-ally, ally-turned-enemy to Daenerys, he will be far more believable than Cersei. He will have support, military power enough to be a threat, and his mere existence will emotionally affect Daenerys in ways Cersei never could. Assuming MadQueenDaenerys is book-canon (and I see no reason for it not to be), Daenerys killing him - by accident or otherwise - might be enough to push her solidly to the Insane Side of the Force.

As it were, they could have just stuck a box of EvilCerealTM instead of Cersei and called it a day. It wouldn't have changed much, plot-wise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm surprised there's so many mentions of Val. She does nothing the whole book. Such a non character at this point.

Young Griff is one of the characters that affected the plot the most. Varys was pretty much a useless character without him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Young Griff (and JC)

2. Arianne (or Her equivalent - I think if they wanted to cut some characters but keep Ellaria, they should have cut sand snakes (or reduced them to background extras), made Oberyn and Ellaria legally married and have an ambitious daughter Tyene+Ariane combination  - so she would legally inherit Dorne in case of death of Doran and Tristane)

3.  Euron (I mean real Hannibal Lecter meets Saruman Euron), I would be ok if they turned Victarion into this pirate-rock star, but I believe real Euron, and his history with Bloodraven and Bran (maybe even interactions on some cosmic plane) could make a good TV.

4. Honorable mention - Quentyn - I think he would make a really nice one season story - underdog trying to be a hero and failing (also a kind of a race between Team  Quentyn, Team Victarion, Team Aegon/Tyrion  to reach Danny  - could have been very suspenseful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/22/2019 at 9:06 PM, Wolfbynature said:

fAgon an Lord Connington? There is a lot of action involved with this two guys. But I think they will have no big impact on the main characters. Impact in sens that they could alter theire story arc.

FAegon and JonCon have landed on Westeros and intend to conquer KL, not to mention they have the GC with them. I think that JonCon and FAegon's roles as rulers of KL with the GC on their side got handed over to Cersei, hence why since the Septsplosion, she hasn't done much beyond stand in a window before dying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought they cut out fAegon because he is going to die in the next book, if he survives and appears in the last book, then it's pretty much a dumb decision to cutting him out from the show when he is such an important character than what people actually believed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, RYShh said:

I thought they cut out fAegon because he is going to die in the next book, if he survives and appears in the last book, then it's pretty much a dumb decision to cutting him out from the show when he is such an important character than what people actually believed.

Considering other decisions showrunners had made, I would not put much stock in their intelligence. I read an article, don't remember where, but they were quite open about wanting to finish A Game of Thrones as quickly as possible, and they would have never been able to do so if they had included a major late arrival such as fAegon. His exclusion streamlined the plot significantly, allowing them to cut down final seasons as much as they did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. fAegon

2. Lady Stoneheart

3. Garlan the Gallant

4. Arianne Martell

Though many characters that made it where changed a lot so yeah there are A LOT of changed and cuts that should have never happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I read the books, but I don't remember this fAegon being this big.

How everybody assume he'll play such a huge part in the story. Why can't he just be another Quentyn playing with fire? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Targaryen Peas said:

So I read the books, but I don't remember this fAegon being this big.

How everybody assume he'll play such a huge part in the story. Why can't he just be another Quentyn playing with fire? 

Most characters were not "big" when they were first introduced. Stannis, Renly etc. As for why everybody is assuming that, well it doesn't make sense otherwise. There has to be something that will connect Daenerys, Cersei, Jon etc., and he may well be that something. Also, Cersei as she is simply won't make for a convincing antagonist for Daenerys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Aldarion said:

Most characters were not "big" when they were first introduced. Stannis, Renly etc. As for why everybody is assuming that, well it doesn't make sense otherwise. There has to be something that will connect Daenerys, Cersei, Jon etc., and he may well be that something. Also, Cersei as she is simply won't make for a convincing antagonist for Daenerys.

I need to re read the books... But he just gave me the impression of someone who would get rekt easily. But I'm prbably wrong. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Targaryen Peas said:

I need to re read the books... But he just gave me the impression of someone who would get rekt easily. But I'm prbably wrong. 

Unlikely. Aegon is rash, true, but Golden Company is a full-time military force, and Westeros is in upheaval. In fact, seeing how Martin made a point of mentioning specifically Golden Company's archers being armed with unusually large and strong bows of rather special wood, it seems that battle between Tyrell army and the Golden Company is going to be Westerosi Agincourt. Remember that Westerosi armies are mostly peasants.

And I just remembered I am not the only one who thinks so. You may find this interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/22/2019 at 4:09 PM, Wolfbynature said:

I vote for Val, aka "wildling princess".  She ist beautiful, fierce, smart, caring, loyal and much more.
She has a crush on Jon, she is like an Ygritte on Steroids.

I would not rank her "The most important". But I didn't understand why she was missing until this last season. Or so I believe. I don't think Jon will fall in love for Daenerys. Bend the knee maybe, but no love. The characters are at the opposite of the conception of what a ruler should be. And Daenerys only loved bad men (Khal Drogo, Daario). With Val, Jon loving Daenerys makes no sense.

There are some important missing characters, like fAegon. But Jon did a bit of his part. And it got Daenerys where she should be, awkwardly, approximately.

No for me the most important missing character is EURON. I know there is a guy by this name. But he is no more Euron than, say Podrick is Blood Raven. A sorry idiot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 5/22/2019 at 3:09 PM, Wolfbynature said:

What ist the most important character, that did´nt found a way into the tv-show?

 

(f)Aegon and his associated characters. 

It's only now I see how important he is to make the plot work. They seem to have parcelled out his plot between Jon, Dany and Cersei in the show should have been enough to demonstrate aspects of his story was needed. The fact it really didn't work shows it would have made more sense to just write him in as soon as they read ADwD or at least the GRRM talks where he told them the show will be out pacing the books. On paper, perhaps they thought, "We can make this work." In practice, aspects of the story didn't make sense and conflicted with the characters.

  1. The Dornish Plot: It makes more sense for them to support the Targaryen who is claiming to be Rhaegar and Elia's son over Daenerys. Not least because in the books Doran's elder son Quentyn ends up being burned alive by one of Dany's dragons, essentially burning the bridge to Westeros through Dorne forever. Also, the "anti-dragon" scorpions are very much a Dornish thing, I believe. It's hard to take down a dragon but if anyone is going to revolutionise ballista technology, it's them.
  2. The Stannis Plot: It is offered a poetic conclusion as in a mirror to Robb Stark winning in the South but losing his home in the North, Stannis is about to win in the North but lose his seat in the Stormlands to the incoming Golden Company headed by Jon Connington and Aegon. For JonCon overcoming Robert Baratheon's family settles a personal failure that still hauntings him. Stannis dying in an attempt to beat Aegon to KL or trying to retake the Stormlands makes more sense than being taken out by an OP Ramsay.
  3. The Cersei Plot: In ASOIAF it is illogical that Cersei would be made queen after Tommen died, full stop. I get it, they love Lena Headey but she overstayed her welcome massively as they stapled the (f)Aegon plot to her. Randyll Tarly and, heck, even the Tyrells (it's virtually impossible for ALL of them to be in the Sept of Baelor even if Cersei DOES blow it up in the books because the HEIR is Willas Tyrell who is safe and sound in HG), upon seeing the writing on the wall for the Lannisters would absolutely abandon her and pledge fealty to (f)Aegon. Not least because they fought for the Crown during Bobby B's 'Bellion. If Cersei did blow up the sept then there is no way in hell Willas Tyrell wouldn't immediately tell Randyll and the rest of the Reach lords to pledge their swords to (f)Aegon as an act of revenge. Not least because in the books they are also being raided by King Euron Greyjoy and will probably pledge fealty in return for assistance with the Ironborn. 
    It would make much more sense for Cersei to either die from Aegon's invasion and all her living enemies turning on her like she did on them, or being forced to flee to Casterly Rock to get drunk and await an inevitable siege. Moreover, if she lives and is in the Westerlands, this even makes her someone Daenerys might want to try and get support from because it'll be slim pickings in a post-(f)Aegon world. Dany and Cersei on the same team. Imagine that!
  4. The Golden Company Plot: A complete damn squibb in the show. In the books, they are already with (f)Aegon and their history serves as more indication that (f)Aegon is actually a Blackfyre, not a Targaryen. When (f) Aegon shows up, most of his army are Essos based but the expectation is that Dorne and the Stormlands will soon bend the knee to him, and maybe bring the Reach with them.
  5. The Daenerys Plot: Think about it -- she sees going to Westeros as part of her mission in life, her birthright. Viserys drilled it into her head that the Seven Kingdoms are theirs by right. In her quest for an army, she gets sidetracked by her desire to free the slaves of Slaver's Bay and become the Queen of Meereen so that she might "learn how to rule". What she finds is that diplomacy sucks and everything thus far has been a political nightmare of compromise, rebellions and terrorism that is eating away at her last nerve. She runs away, perhaps gets her united khalasaar and goes back to settle things in Slaver's Bay... only to find that things are already in turmoil and her only choice is to "wake the dragon" and burn all her enemies mercilessly. Then more news reaches her -- while she was doing all this, her "nephew" Aegon Targaryen, son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Elia Martell, has miraculously turned up; invaded Westeros with the Golden Company, won the support of three out of the seven kingdoms, has laid siege to KL and taken it from the Lannisters. Why? Because (thanks the Tyrion in the books) instead of mucking around trying to team up with Dany and "share" the invasion of Westeros, Aegon decided, "F*&^ it! Let's just go!" This random (likely fake Targ) kid has swooped in and done what she was supposed to have done three books ago... and Dany is p*ssed!
    ...doesn't her cantankerous fury over having her birthright and possibly love from the Westerosi people being taken from her make more sense when it is targeted at someone like this (f)Aegon? Y'know, a kid who is more of a mirror to her and actually wants (and has taken) the Iron Throne, instead of poor Jon (F!Aegon's supposed younger half-brother in this scenario and thus not the "last male heir" of the Targaryens on paper) who has no interest in the Iron Throne nor really anything south of Winterfell, let alone the Neck?!
  6. The Jon Plot: Daenerys's options for support would be limited if (f)Aegon has already carried off the three southron most kingdoms. She might already have the Iron Islands on side, courtesy of Victarion/Euron but approaching Jon (or heck even Stannis if he's still alive!) in the North; Sweetrobin/Sansa/LF in the Vale; or even Cersei in the Westerlands will probably be her top-priorities. This would draw Dany into Jon's Other war more believably as it might well be the price for his support. Having the two monarchs duking it out for the Iron Throne being a pair of Targaryens raises the stakes for Jon if he learns he is himself is Rhaegar's son. They each vie for his support in the North, all while all he can think about is White Walkers. Plus, it would have been interesting for Jon to interact with Aegon over Cersei.
  7. The Tyrion Plot: Ultimately, he was the boot up (f)Aegon's bum to abandon trying to ally with Daenerys and to essentially "prove himself" by just going to Westeros. He argues that Dany is unlikely to take Aegon seriously because she has accomplished so much while he'd just be going cap-in-hand with his better claim and plea for dragonfire. By doing this, he bring the chaotic revenge on KL and the rest of his family but also pave the way for Daenerys to then become a very p*ssed off dragon lady as now (f)Aegon has been *too* successful, probably married someone else *cough*Arianne*cough* and now all she can hope to be is his auntie or maybe his consort if he isn't married. If (f)Aegon is the indirect (or direct) cause of the death of the rest of Tyrion's family then his pit of darkness might be the driving force behind Daenerys opting against diplomacy and just burning anyone who follows the probable Blackfyre pretender. It will only be when confronted with the horrors of what dragons can really do that he might start to peddle back and think, "Maybe this wasn't a good idea after all." But by then it will have been too late.

I could go on but I think I made my point clear. They needed a (f)Aegon, not a Cersei-Dany-Jon jumble. With (f)Aegon would come characters like JonCon and very likely Arianne Martell if they still wanted to do the Dornish plot. Yet they could have just said that (f)Aegon has the support of the still off-screen Dorne, or just Doran sans Arianne who wishes to support his sister's (possible) son; and merged several characters in JonCon or given his role to another character... but you ultimately needed another Targaryen with a better claim than Dany to ruffle her feathers and steal her limelight. It was stapled to Jon, a character to whom the very nature of power has been nothing but a poisoned chalice and no one would care about outside of the North (and maybe the Vale via Sansa).

I get it, D&D probably thought they needed to wrap this up quick and felt they could make it work without (f)Aegon -- but think that for every scene that went nowhere S5 onwards they could have spent introducing the (f)Aegon plot and made everything a great deal easier.

Edited by Faera

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Aldarion said:

Unlikely. Aegon is rash, true, but Golden Company is a full-time military force, and Westeros is in upheaval. In fact, seeing how Martin made a point of mentioning specifically Golden Company's archers being armed with unusually large and strong bows of rather special wood, it seems that battle between Tyrell army and the Golden Company is going to be Westerosi Agincourt. Remember that Westerosi armies are mostly peasants.

And I just remembered I am not the only one who thinks so. You may find this interesting.

Will check that out.

Also, where is it said that he is "fake" Aegon? Is it mentionned or readers deduction. His arc didn't let any good impression on me it's crazy I barely remember him. 

@Faera interesting "theory" if I may call that so. It really looks like an interesting development, but then I remembered how the show ended, and lost faith. 

Edited by Targaryen Peas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Targaryen Peas said:

Will check that out.

Also, where is it said that he is "fake" Aegon? Is it mentionned or readers deduction. His arc didn't let any good impression on me it's crazy I barely remember him. 

It is stated absolutely nowhere, but it is rather heavily implied by the "mummer's dragon" vision and few other things. It is not enough to conclusively declare him a false, but him not being false would be a stretch. And there is also the point that Martin is drawing heavily on Wars of the Roses, and well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Aldarion said:

It is stated absolutely nowhere, but it is rather heavily implied by the "mummer's dragon" vision and few other things. It is not enough to conclusively declare him a false, but him not being false would be a stretch. And there is also the point that Martin is drawing heavily on Wars of the Roses, and well.

Mummer's dragon could imply "Varys's puppet" too. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×