Daenerys should have supported Jon’s claim

[Vanadis]

It would have made sense to me if she had been happy to find another Targaryen when she thought she was the last one, supported his claim, and married him since they were in love. If he didn't want the throne, she could have ruled for her husband. If he did want the throne, I'm sure they could have found a way to share power. 
She could have retained her "dark villain" aspect through all of it. I don't think a dark "all shall love me and despair" Galadriel would have divorced Celeborn. 
They would have had to find some other reason for her to go down her dark path, though. 

[SeanF]

In a real medieval situation, she, Jon, Varys, and Tyrion would have all known in 5 minutes, that the two of them marrying was the solution to any potential dynastic conflict.

[Nightwish]

4 hours ago, GeorgeIAF said:

Rhaegar loved Lyanna and sent his best men to protect Jon, risking losing a war for his safety.

Dany should have backed Jon and told him stories about Rhaegar and how much he loved him, also Bran could have played a more important part in telling him more info about his father and mother and in this way Jon maybe would have felt that it was his duty to sit on the Iron Throne given the sacrifices his father made for him.

But we didnt even get a mention from Jon about Rhaegar, at least a scene with him talking with Dany about his family and their heritage. 

Dany felt it was her duty and destiny to avenge her family, but I feel Jon could have done this too. Basically her mother and his father were dead because of his birth.

I believe that his ID comes too late in the game. In season 8 the producers had no room for narratives. Most of the time the characters communicate with the eyes. 

[RFL]

Dany had come too far, lost too much, and was too focused on the throne.  What was she going to tell the Dothraki that crossed the narrow sea for her?  Never mind, by right of birth its his so we should just go with that.  

[Hodor's Dragon]

25 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Times change.  She started with a tender heart but turned into a tyrant.  So, what she did with the dragon eggs has little bearing on how season 8 Dany reacted to anything.  She is much harder and more ruthless and has spent years obsessing over the Iron Throne since that early time, she has also since developed a serious messiah complex.  Season 1 Dany would have simply been thrilled to find another member of her family alive, especially a nice guy like Jon, it would never have occurred to her to see him as a threat. 

I asserted that the facts of how Daenerys treated Viserys' claim, even after she had the power to choose otherwise, are the only facts in books or show prior to S8E4 regarding how Daenerys would treat another individual with a superior claim to her own. I don't consider "Times change" to refute my assertion.

This was the essential step 1 to Dany's entire 180 over the last 3 episodes. It starts right here, with her doing something very important and flatly contrary to what she had done before when faced with the same choice. I can't think of any facts in between that would explicitly relate to how Dany would react to another Targaryen that would serve as providing stepping stones to cross the gulf between what we saw her do earlier and what she does now. 

You didn't help me out here, facts-wise. If you or anyone else has other facts that would explain this contradiction, I'm all ears, but until then I'm going to think of her reaction to hearing from Jon as just another unexplained 180 in a series of them.

I feel very confident that it won't happen this way in the books unless Martin has given us the stepping stones, because we are talking about a flat contradiction of previously-demonstrated character. People do change, as well as "times," but that has to be shown, not assumed, in a well-constructed character-based story.

[Aldarion]

46 minutes ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

What is the evidence for your statement? Did you read my post? Viserys is the only person she has ever known who had a better claim than her, and she stood aside for him, despite his unfitness, well past the time when she had other options due to her superior standing with Drogo.

Keep in mind however that people change. Daenerys in S1 is not the same as in S7 or 8, especially after she had tasted power. Also, she was likely worried not so much about Jon taking the throne, but about other people forcing his claim. Remember that she had likely expected to be hailed as liberator in Westeros... and then she wasn't. Worse, she realized that people didn't like her. That would have destroyed her self-respect and her entire worldview in one fell stroke.

[Vanadis]

10 minutes ago, Aldarion said:

Worse, she realized that people didn't like her. 

I'm fairly sure a marriage would have made her pretty popular with everyone supporting Jon, perhaps with the exception of the Starks. People are into royal weddings. Certainly in Europe they are... I'm sure it's no different in Westeros. 

[the red god]

i think it would be safe to assume that jon was already aware of the targaryans' history, as both grrm and the show made it clear in the beginning that the starks were very insistent on educating their children about history. i would imagine jon was given similar treatment, despite being a bastard.

[Aldarion]

2 minutes ago, Vanadis said:

I'm fairly sure a marriage would have made her pretty popular with everyone supporting Jon, perhaps with the exception of the Starks. People are into royal weddings. Certainly in Europe they are... I'm sure it's no different in Westeros. 

Problem with that is, she had already tasted power and she had been fixated on the throne for years. So she likely didn't want to play second fiddle to Jon. Further, remember what I said: she had built that image of herself as a liberator, champion of the people, only to have that whole "reality" pretty much collapse upon arrival to Westeros. And she felt threatened by Jon's popularity (scenes in Winterfell show that quite clearly).

So:
* lost two of her children
* very close to gaining one thing she had been pursued for years
* only just realized that reality does not conform to what she had believed her entire life
* in shadow of a person she was developing feelings for

She had been "center of the universe" for several seasons now, and now she suddenly wasn't. Marriage would not have fixed that little problem.

[RFL]

Dany WAS willing to rule with Jon.  He strode into that throne room in full battle gear (apparently soldiers in the north hate helmets) with no guards and no one accompanying him.  She did not have him "accidentally" killed by the Unsullied in the battle or after it.  She had not poisoned him.  She had not burned him alive.  She embraced him 

She had absolutely no idea that Jon would have been upset about the destruction of Kings Landing.  Not the slightest hint that she seemed to realize that anyone might be a little upset by it.  As others have noted, outside of perhaps Tyrion, it seems virtually no one was.  Yara was like "that's my queen" and even Sansa and Arya didn't defend Jon's actions as justified - they negotiated for a punishment other than death.  

[Dragons dance with Wolves]

1 hour ago, David Selig said:

So Dany did all the work only for Jon to swoop in in the last second based on an unlikely story with no evidence except "My weird bro says so? That would have been just as bad as the actual dumb ending we got.

Drogon allowed Jon to touch him and receive affection, something that attracts Dany to Jon as no one else has been able to do that. 

Only Targaryen’s in modern Westeros could ride dragons. Jon rode Rhaegal multiple times... Dany finds out about his heritage after Jon has already rode Rhaegal. She knows in her heart that it’s likely true. And if she wanted validation, reading the grand septon’s diary would’ve confirmed it for her.

Jon face plenty of combat himself, and proved himself, otherwise he wouldn’t have the North and Wildlings following him. It’s disingenuous to say Jon wasn’t deserving of we’re talking purely about accomplishments in the context of a royal bloodline.

[Dragons dance with Wolves]

13 minutes ago, RFL said:

Dany WAS willing to rule with Jon.  He strode into that throne room in full battle gear (apparently soldiers in the north hate helmets) with no guards and no one accompanying him.  She did not have him "accidentally" killed by the Unsullied in the battle or after it.  She had not poisoned him.  She had not burned him alive.  She embraced him 

She had absolutely no idea that Jon would have been upset about the destruction of Kings Landing.  Not the slightest hint that she seemed to realize that anyone might be a little upset by it.  As others have noted, outside of perhaps Tyrion, it seems virtually no one was.  Yara was like "that's my queen" and even Sansa and Arya didn't defend Jon's actions as justified - they negotiated for a punishment other than death.  

Rewind back to Season 7 when Dany asks Jon’s advice on King’s Landing. He advises against burning the city.

[Vanadis]

16 minutes ago, RFL said:

Dany WAS willing to rule with Jon.  He strode into that throne room in full battle gear (apparently soldiers in the north hate helmets) with no guards and no one accompanying him.  She did not have him "accidentally" killed by the Unsullied in the battle or after it.  She had not poisoned him.  She had not burned him alive.  She embraced him 

I agree; however, I feel people in this season have changed personality from episode to episode. Before the assault, she didn't want to marry him, because there had to be a conflict between them. After the assault, she wanted to, because their love for each other made the scene more dramatic and enabled Jon to embrace her. People really have been doing and feeling whatever the plot needed them to for quite some time...

33 minutes ago, Aldarion said:

Problem with that is, she had already tasted power and she had been fixated on the throne for years. So she likely didn't want to play second fiddle to Jon. Further, remember what I said: she had built that image of herself as a liberator, champion of the people, only to have that whole "reality" pretty much collapse upon arrival to Westeros. And she felt threatened by Jon's popularity (scenes in Winterfell show that quite clearly).

So:
* lost two of her children
* very close to gaining one thing she had been pursued for years
* only just realized that reality does not conform to what she had believed her entire life
* in shadow of a person she was developing feelings for

She had been "center of the universe" for several seasons now, and now she suddenly wasn't. Marriage would not have fixed that little problem.

She spent a large part of her life believing her brother would be king.
I think Jorah once even told her that people in Westeros weren't as excited about her return as her brother had led her to believe.
And at one point, she was ready to travel to Westeros with her khal husband beside her to claim the throne. 
It's true that she had had several seasons to build up an image of herself as lone ruler, but to me it just would have made more sense if she had been happier about Jon being Aegon.
And it would have made a lot more sense if both Tyrion and Viserys had pushed for a marriage.


Imagine season 8 with...
Sansa: "Tyrion, there's something I need to tell you..."
Later, with Dany:
Tyrion: "Marry Jon, Khaleesi."
Viserys: "Yes, you must, for the stability of the realm."
Jon: "I love you. You're my queen." 
Dany: "'kay."

[Aldarion]

2 minutes ago, Vanadis said:

She spent a large part of her life believing her brother would be king.
I think Jorah once even told her that people in Westeros wasn't as excited about her return as her brother had led her to believe.
And at one point, she was ready to travel to Westeros with her khal husband beside her to claim the throne. 
It's true that she had had several seasons to build up an image of herself as lone ruler, but to me it just would have made more sense if she had been happier about Jon being Aegon.
And it would have made a lot more sense if both Tyrion and Viserys had pushed for a marriage.


Imagine season 8 with...
Sansa: "Tyrion, there's something I need to tell you..."
Later, with Dany:
Tyrion: "Marry Jon, Khaleesi."
Viserys: "Yes, you must, for the stability of the realm."
Jon: "I love you. You're my queen." 
Dany: "'kay."

All I'm saying is that it is not complete nonsense. But yeah, even if she had no real feelings for Jon (and I believe original intent of showrunners was for them to fall in love), they could have still maried for both family and politics, and yes, at very least both Tyrion and Viserys should have pushed for marriage. Especially seeing how both of them were portrayed as doing what they could to avoid the war.

[Nightwish]

2 hours ago, David Selig said:

So Dany did all the work only for Jon to swoop in in the last second based on an unlikely story with no evidence except "My weird bro says so? That would have been just as bad as the actual dumb ending we got.

I agree. The difference with Jon and Dany is that by the time that Jon learns about it Dany is ready to conquer the throne. 

She can't step back after all the hard work she has done and all of this effort she did to make it to Westeros just because Jon has a better claim than hers. She has worked for it, whereas Jon hardly recognizes that he is partly Targaryen and also doesn't want the throne. 

[TheTuninator]

I have no problem believing that Dany as depicted on the show would not want to share power with a man who had a better claim to the throne than her, but it's undeniably very problematic that we never get to hear her articulate why for herself. Especially so given that her eventual marriage is an inevitability, not a possibility, given her need to secure and stabilize her conquests.  

[NymeriaWarriorQueen]

1 hour ago, RFL said:

 

[Forlong the Fat]

She is fundamentally a tragic figure whose tragic flaw is that she cannot compromise her ambition to allow herself to have a happy life.  She had many opportunities to do so, long before the issue with Jon arose.  And this is very much present in the books, going all the way back to her considering the possibility of having a happy life with Drogo, but believing she couldn't do it because she is the blood of the dragon.

So, yes, she should have compromised with Jon or at some other point to have a fulfilling life.  But she she shouldn't have done so in the show, and almost certainly won't do so in the books, because then she would not be the essential tragic hero that she is. Saying she should have supported Jon's claim is like saying that Oedipus should have controlled his temper.

[Knugen]

6 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

I agree. The difference with Jon and Dany is that by the time that Jon learns about it Dany is ready to conquer the throne. 

She can't step back after all the hard work she has done and all of this effort she did to make it to Westeros just because Jon has a better claim than hers. She has worked for it, whereas Jon hardly recognizes that he is partly Targaryen and also doesn't want the throne. 

She had worked for it. Sure. But you can't rule the Kingdom without support and she knows this. Jon had the support and love that she needed and wanted, she wanted a TARG on the Throne. She could have had everything she wanted, by marrying Jon. 

She would have had love (From Jon and the people) the throne would have been theirs and most importantly her children(!) (If we assume she can have them, as they imply in the show after she comes to Westeros). 

D&D just sucks. 

[Nightwish]

2 minutes ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

She was only willing to rule with him on her terms which included conquering the world and forcing people to bend to her will.  She told him they would choose ......not the people.  Also....it was evident she viewed him as a threat the minute he revealed his parentage to her. She didn’t smile, hug him, and embrace him as a Targaryen.   She was more concerned that he had a greater claim to the throne.   After that, her jealousy and paranoia grew as she saw how the Northerners loved and followed him.  I have been a Dany fan since the beginning but I knew something was way off when she did not seem happy about who his father and mother were.  It was downhill from there.

She was a career girl after all...

Yes, definitely because she conquered the throne with her army and dragons. So she was the ruler she set the terms.  She no longer saw him as a threat once she got the throne. 

This allowed him to kill her eventually.