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Daenerys should have supported Jon’s claim

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3 minutes ago, Martyn Bull said:

I think Jon Snow has a record of ending up in positions of power he doesn't necessarily WANTS. He didn't refuse then. 

Not then, but he declared to Dany that he doesn't want it and that he will refuse. We are supposed to believe him because he is man of honor. And back then he was unprepared, now it seems that he has done his decision. 

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7 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

Not then, but he declared to Dany that he doesn't want it and that he will refuse. We are supposed to believe him because he is man of honor. And back then he was unprepared, now it seems that he has done his decision. 

In my opinion what GRRM is trying to get along is that that is not up to Jon Snow to choose. If the people wants him as a monarch, Dany will have one hell of a problem. Yes, she has the army, but Jon could very fast become a rallying point for all of Westeros, then it doesn't really matter what Jon declared. He's not in charge, he's just a figurehead.

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8 hours ago, Martyn Bull said:

In my opinion what GRRM is trying to get along is that that is not up to Jon Snow to choose. If the people wants him as a monarch, Dany will have one hell of a problem. Yes, she has the army, but Jon could very fast become a rallying point for all of Westeros, then it doesn't really matter what Jon declared. He's not in charge, he's just a figurehead.

Agree. I was expecting exactly this to happen from the moment Tyrion, Sansa and Varys knew about Jon. When the word is out, it's out of Jon's hands. From what we've seen it seemed that the nobles of Westeros are mostly against Cersei but they aren't very keen on Dany either. They reluctantly decided to support Dany because she was the lesser of two evils in their eyes at the moment. If it is known that Jon has a claim and a better one than Dany, I expect basically everyone to leave Dany and support Jon. Jon becoming the king in this scenario is basically the same thing how he became the Lord Commander of NW - he didn't want it, he didn't campaign for it but other people (mainly Sam in that case) made the decision instead of him and so he ends up as the LC.

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1 hour ago, Nerevanin said:

Jon becoming the king in this scenario is basically the same thing how he became the Lord Commander of NW - he didn't want it, he didn't campaign for it but other people (mainly Sam in that case) made the decision instead of him and so he ends up as the LC.

If only the doofuses D&D would have thought of that fact instead of making everyone chug Stupid Juice just to create needless drama. For Game of Thrones to have ended bittersweet, Daernerys and Jon should have married but she dies taking King's Landing instead of Jon having to shank her cause she went insane in the membrane.....

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Martyn Bull said:

In my opinion what GRRM is trying to get along is that that is not up to Jon Snow to choose. If the people wants him as a monarch, Dany will have one hell of a problem. Yes, she has the army, but Jon could very fast become a rallying point for all of Westeros, then it doesn't really matter what Jon declared. He's not in charge, he's just a figurehead.

Yes but that’s theoretically, what happens in practice is that he doesn’t want it and thus has no reason to share it with other people who may start a war on his name. 

I would understand all of these arguements if Jon hadn’t refuse the throne to Dany and hadn’t insisted he is not into it.

Aemon had a similar case when his older brother died and everybody supported him for the throne, he was in the Night Watch if I remember correct, but he just declined making his rightful air the next in line.

So it has happened before and the main issue is Jon wishes, not what others want. 

In this case since nobody know he doesn’t need to perplex things by telling them. Dany has also to worry about her life as we saw for example assasin attempts against her and such. Its a cruel world. 

 

Edited by Nightwish

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Yes, the whole conflict is bananas!!!!!

Pretty much the only thing Jon had to do was say that he abdicated in favor of Dany. Which by the way he seemed pretty happy and likely to do. 

So, she should have had no fear on his side. Not at all! 

Ok, there may have been issues with their more romantic relations. And yes, Dany may have been pretty sad about that. But she would not be against Jon or in fear of Jon given that he always supported her. Dany had no single instance where she could think that Jon was after her throne. If he wants his true identity to be known, that´s pretty much not relevant if he also keeps supporting her. 

The only real danger is that someone could think about murdering her to have him solely ruling. 

But that issue would also likely come to be if she was made Queen and he was at her side. Him not being a Targ would not stop him from being the King consort and thus being a possible candidate for power. If Cersei could get into the throne just by being Robert´s widow, so could Jon Snow! 

Therefore...Jon being Targ or not should have been irrelevant for Dany as long as he kept supporting her. And if he decided to go against her, him being Targ or not would again make no big diference. He could also go against her just being Jon Snow, King in the North. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, RSasoiaf said:

Yes, the whole conflict is bananas!!!!!

Pretty much the only thing Jon had to do was say that he abdicated in favor of Dany. Which by the way he seemed pretty happy and likely to do. 

So, she should have had no fear on his side. Not at all! 

Ok, there may have been issues with their more romantic relations. And yes, Dany may have been pretty sad about that. But she would not be against Jon or in fear of Jon given that he always supported her. Dany had no single instance where she could think that Jon was after her throne. If he wants his true identity to be known, that´s pretty much not relevant if he also keeps supporting her. 

The only real danger is that someone could think about murdering her to have him solely ruling. 

But that issue would also likely come to be if she was made Queen and he was at her side. Him not being a Targ would not stop him from being the King consort and thus being a possible candidate for power. If Cersei could get into the throne just by being Robert´s widow, so could Jon Snow! 

Therefore...Jon being Targ or not should have been irrelevant for Dany as long as he kept supporting her. And if he decided to go against her, him being Targ or not would again make no big diference. He could also go against her just being Jon Snow, King in the North. 

What should have happened was that Jon never bent the knee. At the end Season 7 or being of season 8 The King in The North married the Dragon Queen. Once Dany sat on the Iron Throne. Jon rules the North with Sansa as his hand and Dany ruled the rest with Tyrion. Then their child would get both crowns and technically the north stays independent even though its one ruler. 

Or Jon becomes Kingsguard and abdicates both crowns publicly. Then Dany still goes nuts and Jon kills her. Then he is sent to the Wall. Sansa still becomes Queen and Bran still becomes King. 

Edited by King Jon Snow Stark

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1 hour ago, RSasoiaf said:

Yes, the whole conflict is bananas!!!!!

Pretty much the only thing Jon had to do was say that he abdicated in favor of Dany. Which by the way he seemed pretty happy and likely to do. 

So, she should have had no fear on his side. Not at all! 

Ok, there may have been issues with their more romantic relations. And yes, Dany may have been pretty sad about that. But she would not be against Jon or in fear of Jon given that he always supported her. Dany had no single instance where she could think that Jon was after her throne. If he wants his true identity to be known, that´s pretty much not relevant if he also keeps supporting her. 

The only real danger is that someone could think about murdering her to have him solely ruling. 

But that issue would also likely come to be if she was made Queen and he was at her side. Him not being a Targ would not stop him from being the King consort and thus being a possible candidate for power. If Cersei could get into the throne just by being Robert´s widow, so could Jon Snow! 

Therefore...Jon being Targ or not should have been irrelevant for Dany as long as he kept supporting her. And if he decided to go against her, him being Targ or not would again make no big diference. He could also go against her just being Jon Snow, King in the North. 

Dany was completely right when she saw Jon as a threath regardless of his words. She knew very well that people might bring him to the throne. It's kinda what happened with her in Slaver's Bay. She was no queen at the moment (although she called herself like that), she was more of a rogue with a dream, dragons and some devoted followers but it was the people who cheered for her and made her their queen. With Jon it could be the same thing but this time it wouldn't be former slaves but lords with armies.

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Yup, she should've. But she was so obsessed with the Iron Throne. Even if Rhaegar comes back from the dead, she wouldn't give up.

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On 5/24/2019 at 1:26 PM, RSasoiaf said:

Yes, the whole conflict is bananas!!!!!

Pretty much the only thing Jon had to do was say that he abdicated in favor of Dany. Which by the way he seemed pretty happy and likely to do. 

So, she should have had no fear on his side. Not at all! 

Ok, there may have been issues with their more romantic relations. And yes, Dany may have been pretty sad about that. But she would not be against Jon or in fear of Jon given that he always supported her. Dany had no single instance where she could think that Jon was after her throne. If he wants his true identity to be known, that´s pretty much not relevant if he also keeps supporting her. 

The only real danger is that someone could think about murdering her to have him solely ruling. 

 But that issue would also likely come to be if she was made Queen and he was at her side. Him not being a Targ would not stop him from being the King consort and thus being a possible candidate for power. If Cersei could get into the throne just by being Robert´s widow, so could Jon Snow! 

Therefore...Jon being Targ or not should have been irrelevant for Dany as long as he kept supporting her. And if he decided to go against her, him being Targ or not would again make no big diference. He could also go against her just being Jon Snow, King in the North. 

I think she was worried about people putting him on the throne regardless of his wishes. Which is why I suspect she would have tried to kill him eventually.

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The moment Jon's history is made public all hell breaks loose; "we chose a Targaryen to be king of the north?", "Ned Stark was a liar?", "my father died fighting for a lie?".

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Posted (edited)

Yes, she should have it. For her family an the future of her dinasty, letting Jon take the Throne would be the best decision, but Daenerys would never do such thing. 

 

I know that a lot of people here in this tread believes that the easiest answer would be a marriage alliance between Jon and Dany, but this idea would be a disaster and in the end, also bring House Targaryen to an end.

If you believe Dany would sit in the Throne and rule happily Westeros for years to come you havent payed attention to her character at all, she is a conqueror, tahts what excites her. Its the war, the battles, the violence, she has a lot of Robert Baratheon on her. Dany would be bored to death after 6 months on the Throne. She was already planning to force the entire realm (to Winterfell to Dorne) into submission and once this was done, she would move on to the next target. 

Jon Snow would be stucked as a consort king to a barren women, who plns to conquer the world. Thats not what Jon Snow wants at all, he wants peace, he doesnt want to fight war after war; he wants a home and a family. He would probable kill himself after a few years as Dany puppet. 

 

For me, the best ending would have been Dany realizing no one wanted her in Westeros and that Essos was always her home. Going back there to continue her conquering mission and leaving her nephew on Westeros to rule the kingdom. Jon could marry a high born lady and have children in order to continue his line. I still believe Jon and Sansa were the best match for this ending. She would be a great queen for him. 

 

We would have two Targaryens ruling the world. But I guess, this would be too perfect.

Edited by Juligen

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3 reasons why she should've ;

1- Jon has a better claim,

2- Jon can further the Targaryen line unlike Daenerys could,

3- Lords of Westeros would love Jon more than they would love Daenerys , he is a war hero, raised in Westeros, and a male where lords of Westeros would prefer (Daenerys should at least know why that cvil war Dance of the Dragons started in the first place).

She knew all of this, yet she didn't care.

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Because she knows no one likes her, and they like Jon better, so she's going to despise his claim. This made sense considering Jon sided with his family in the end. He could have done it sooner, and let them make him king over Dany. 

 

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On 6/7/2019 at 1:51 AM, RYShh said:

3 reasons why she should've ;

1- Jon has a better claim,

2- Jon can further the Targaryen line unlike Daenerys could,

3- Lords of Westeros would love Jon more than they would love Daenerys , he is a war hero, raised in Westeros, and a male where lords of Westeros would prefer (Daenerys should at least know why that cvil war Dance of the Dragons started in the first place).

She knew all of this, yet she didn't care.

He doesn’t want it. She was trying to help him out by taking the throne 

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9 hours ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

He doesn’t want it. She was trying to help him out by taking the throne 

Seriously?

Daenerys: ''It doesn't matter what you want. You didn't want to be King in the North. What happens when they demand you press your claim, and take what is mine?''

Varys: ''Is marrying your aunt common in the North? You know our queen better than I do. Do you think she wants to share the throne? She does not like to have her authority questioned.'' 

 

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Posted (edited)

While I do question Jon's decision to bend the knee, Arya thought it was a good strategic move to get her armies North.

They also threw in a convo with Tormund, where he said that Mance could have saved lives by simply bending the knee (presumably to ask the NW for help instead of starting a needless war). 

I kind of hate how they didn't confirm either way why he did it. 

Edited by Rose of Red Lake

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1 hour ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

While I do question Jon's decision to bend the knee, Arya thought it was a good strategic move to get her armies North.

They also threw in a convo with Tormund, where he said that Mance could have saved lives by simply not bending the knee (presumably to ask the NW for help instead of starting a needless war). 

I kind of hate how they didn't confirm either way why he did it. 

Daenerys already said they are going to kill Night King together after she saved them from beyond the Wall then Jon bends the knee, I think it's both, Jon felt guilty about losing Viserion and also because he loves her. They cut the scene when Sansa asked; ''Did you bend the knee to save the North or because you love her? '' Sansa wasn't sure, I guess Jon wasn't either.

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32 minutes ago, RYShh said:

Daenerys already said they are going to kill Night King together after she saved them from beyond the Wall then Jon bends the knee, I think it's both, Jon felt guilty about losing Viserion and also because he loves her. They cut the scene when Sansa asked; ''Did you bend the knee to save the North or because you love her? '' Sansa wasn't sure, I guess Jon wasn't either.

He made it sound like he bent the knee for the North in his speech to the Northerners. So he was still conflicted even then? Jon doesn't know why he does what he does? The writing for Jon is just awful. 

A character who faces no challenges in the south to overcome on his own merits, just gets to fall in love which happens to get him an army to solve his problems. It is very un-Martinesque. 

 

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17 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

He made it sound like he bent the knee for the North in his speech to the Northerners. So he was still conflicted even then? Jon doesn't know why he does what he does? The writing for Jon is just awful. 

A character who faces no challenges in the south to overcome on his own merits, just gets to fall in love which happens to get him an army to solve his problems. It is very un-Martinesque. 

 

Well, no matter how honorable he is, even Jon couldn't say to the Northerners that ''I bent the knee because I love her'', so it was a casual speech I guess.

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