Jump to content
GeorgeIAF

Daenerys should have supported Jon’s claim

Recommended Posts

Rhaegar loved Lyanna and sent his best men to protect Jon, risking losing a war for his safety.

Dany should have backed Jon and told him stories about Rhaegar and how much he loved him, also Bran could have played a more important part in telling him more info about his father and mother and in this way Jon maybe would have felt that it was his duty to sit on the Iron Throne given the sacrifices his father made for him.

But we didnt even get a mention from Jon about Rhaegar, at least a scene with him talking with Dany about his family and their heritage. 

Dany felt it was her duty and destiny to avenge her family, but I feel Jon could have done this too. Basically her mother and his father were dead because of his birth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Daenerys should've done a lot of things differently this season if she'd acted "normally" (i.e. S1-S7), but D&D apparently had to kill her off as lazily and rushed as possible, so they turned her into a SS Sith Lord over the course of two episodes and then fabricated/retconned her entire storyarc in an attempt to justify Jon murdering her in cold blood.

- Gone was her longing for a family. (She would've been ecstatic about Jon, the man she loves, being Rhaegar's son. And what happened to all the foreshadowing and hints about her having a baby with Jon?)
- Gone was her longing for a home. (She mentions it in S1, and this longing is much more prominent in the books.)
- Gone was her wish to protect her people and the downtrodden. (Remember how she attacked Yunkai *only* to free slaves? Or how she locked away two of her dragons because *one* child got killed?)
- Gone was any form of compromises. (Remember how she essentially gave Yara the Iron Islands and said that the other kingdoms where free to ask for their independence as well? Good times...)
- Gone was her entire idea about it being her duty as the last Targaryen to take the throne. (She loves Jon. If the show followed any semblance of logic, she would've asked him to marry him several episodes ago. She even talks about political marriage back in S6. Instead she wants him to move aside so she can ignore her own rules.)

Instead she suddenly, out of nowhere, wants to "liberate" (read: conquer) the entire known world and then proceeds to get killed by the man she loves without a word 5 minutes later.

Bye Daenerys...
We first met you being sexually abused by your own brother, and we left you stabbed in the heart by your own nephew. 
Seriously, fuck D&D.

Edited by MinscS2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She certainly should have investigated his claim and respected it if she found evidence it were true, and the clues we have from the story tell us she would have. For God's sake, she supported Viserys' claim and even his authority almost up until his death, really for as long as it was reasonably possible and a step beyond. She even told him she could have her dragon eggs because he was her King.

Otherwise, the subject of how she might treat someone with a superior claim to the throne is never addressed because she in fact has a better claim than any other living person unless she accepts Robert's Rebellion as legitimate. Of course, as the lone surviving issue of the murdered King, she would not be expected to do that. She was raised to believe in Viserys' claim which belief, by extension, puts her next. She would've been taught that it was not her right or her privilege to seek the Iron Throne, it was her duty to her house.

But that duty was only if she were the true heir, and she has already shown she understands that. Her swift rejection of the idea that someone else had a superior claim was not based in factual knowledge or understanding of Jon's claim and was not consistent with her own actions earlier in the story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Why are we erasing Daenerys' ambition? She wanted the throne. She wanted to be Queen. She's not Jon Snow, standing aside isn't her nature and hasn't been since she watched Viserys get his golden crown.

What exactly was Jon going to avenge? The war started because of what Aerys did to Rickard and Brandon. The only thing to avenge is the children and Tywin is long dead.

Edited by AryaNymeriaVisenya

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So Dany did all the work only for Jon to swoop in in the last second based on an unlikely story with no evidence except "My weird bro says so? That would have been just as bad as the actual dumb ending we got.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

Why are we erasing Daenerys' ambition? She wanted the throne. She wanted to be Queen. She's not Jon Snow, standing aside isn't her nature and hasn't been since she watched Viserys get his golden crown

What is the evidence for your statement? Did you read my post? Viserys is the only person she has ever known who had a better claim than her, and she stood aside for him, despite his unfitness, well past the time when she had other options due to her superior standing with Drogo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, David Selig said:

So Dany did all the work only for Jon to swoop in in the last second based on an unlikely story with no evidence except "My weird bro says so? That would have been just as bad as the actual dumb ending we got.

No, but she shouldn't have rejected it without investigation. And in fact, she never says she doesn't believe him. She never asks for evidence either way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Cas Stark said:

People should have started wondering about Dany when her titles started multiplying like crazy back in Meereen.  

What does that have to do with this thread?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The idea that 'the claim' of some obscure hidden prince should affect anything was always silly. As was the entire internal Targaryen conflict of her vs. him - if they love each other, they can marry. Case closed. The Conqueror and his sister-wives also ruled jointly together.

Just now, Cas Stark said:

People should have started wondering about Dany when her titles started multiplying like crazy back in Meereen.  

She is the only monarch in that series that actually has a proper string of titles. She and Lord Manderly. The rest a naked and impoverished beggars... ;-).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Hodor's Dragon said:

What does that have to do with this thread?

It shows her self-regard, her ambition, her narcissism.  All reasons why she would never give up belief that Westeros is hers by right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Hodor's Dragon said:

What is the evidence for your statement? Did you read my post? Viserys is the only person she has ever known who had a better claim than her, and she stood aside for him, despite his unfitness, well past the time when she had other options due to her superior standing with Drogo.

She did not stand aside for Viserys. From her POV he'd been the 'rightful king' since before she was born. No one asked her for an opinion. 

Evidence for my statement she is ambitious and not going to stand aside. 'I was born to rule the 7 kingdoms'. She wasn't, she had a brother. She has erased him from the story. This is her birthright apparently. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pardons, but it sounded to me a lot more like random shit-talking of Dany. I find the connection a bit tenuous--ESPECIALLY SINCE MISSANDEI DID THAT ON HER OWN SO FAR AS WE KNOW--but if you had made it in your original post I wouldn't have objected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

She did not stand aside for Viserys. From her POV he'd been the 'rightful king' since before she was born. No one asked her for an opinion. 

Evidence for my statement she is ambitious and not going to stand aside. 'I was born to rule the 7 kingdoms'. She wasn't, she had a brother. She has erased him from the story. This is her birthright apparently. 

That is just nonsense - it was her birthright after both her brothers and her father were killed. Because she was the last Targaryen left.

This show cannot keep its act together, they forget half of what they themselves established, so it is hardly a surprise that they never mention Viserys. This is not a statement or indication that there is a consistently written, coherent character called 'Daenerys'. There is none. She doesn't exist as a fictional character in the show and thus doesn't have motivations and desires and goals we can ascribe to her. That would only be the case if the writers gave a damn about internal consistency. Which they never did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

She did not stand aside for Viserys. From her POV he'd been the 'rightful king' since before she was born. No one asked her for an opinion. 

Evidence for my statement she is ambitious and not going to stand aside. 'I was born to rule the 7 kingdoms'. She wasn't, she had a brother. She has erased him from the story. This is her birthright apparently. 

Then please address the facts I raised: she had far superior standing with Drogo, and it was shown on more than one occasion that his bloodriders would obey her over him. Why did she continue to recognize his authority after that state of affairs arose? Why did she tell him he could even have her dragon eggs if he just asked, because he was her king, well after bloodrider X beat Viserys with a whip for attacking her?

This is the ONLY actual sequence of events in the entire story prior to meeting Jon that bears directly on what Daenerys would do if confronted with a claimant with a superior claim. I can't see disregarding it.

And your evidence doesn't make sense. She didn't erase Viserys, death did. You're saying she should have not spoken of her birthright because she had a dead older brother? Actually she has more than one, but they both share the attribute of being dead, and that's exactly why the birthright is now hers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

No, but she shouldn't have rejected it without investigation. And in fact, she never says she doesn't believe him. She never asks for evidence either way.

Dany not asking for evidence another example of the idiotic plot of this season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

Then please address the facts I raised: she had far superior standing with Drogo, and it was shown on more than one occasion that his bloodriders would obey her over him. Why did she continue to recognize his authority after that state of affairs arose? Why did she tell him he could even have her dragon eggs if he just asked, because he was her king, well after bloodrider X beat Viserys with a whip for attacking her?

This is the ONLY actual sequence of events in the entire story prior to meeting Jon that bears directly on what Daenerys would do if confronted with a claimant with a superior claim. I can't see disregarding it.

And your evidence doesn't make sense. She didn't erase Viserys, death did. You're saying she should have not spoken of her birthright because she had a dead older brother? Actually she has more than one, but they both share the attribute of being dead, and that's exactly why the birthright is now hers. 

Times change.  She started with a tender heart but turned into a tyrant.  So, what she did with the dragon eggs has little bearing on how season 8 Dany reacted to anything.  She is much harder and more ruthless and has spent years obsessing over the Iron Throne since that early time, she has also since developed a serious messiah complex.  Season 1 Dany would have simply been thrilled to find another member of her family alive, especially a nice guy like Jon, it would never have occurred to her to see him as a threat. 

Edited by Cas Stark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

Then please address the facts I raised: she had far superior standing with Drogo, and it was shown on more than one occasion that his bloodriders would obey her over him. Why did she continue to recognize his authority after that state of affairs arose? Why did she tell him he could even have her dragon eggs if he just asked, because he was her king, well after bloodrider X beat Viserys with a whip for attacking her?

This is the ONLY actual sequence of events in the entire story prior to meeting Jon that bears directly on what Daenerys would do if confronted with a claimant with a superior claim. I can't see disregarding it.

And your evidence doesn't make sense. She didn't erase Viserys, death did. You're saying she should have not spoken of her birthright because she had a dead older brother? Actually she has more than one, but they both share the attribute of being dead, and that's exactly why the birthright is now hers. 

She didn't continue to recognise Viserys. As shown by the molten gold she didn't stop getting put over his head. Even before that she threatened to have his hands cut off. 

When you say 'I was born to rule the seven kingdoms' it means that you were born to do just that. But she wasn't. That was Viserys' birthright. The same way in the books Ned thinks that he was never meant to have this life, it was meant to be Brandon's. Dany is exactly the opposite. By season 7 Viserys was never meant to be King in her eyes. It was always her right, her destiny the whole time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I bet the realm doesn't believe Jon's claim. Book theory was based on Howland Reed telling people. But Stannis who holds much more weight wasn't able to convince the realm about Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella's claim. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×