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57 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

How does he marry two wives when he needs support of the Faith (High Sparrow)? 

All he really needs is an officiant willing to perform it. But I am not arguing that AeGriff will wed two women. Connington certainly doesn't seem to be considering the possibility. Perhaps AeGriff will already be wed to Arianne, and the Tyrells will have to consider whether to accept or reject some other reward. Perhaps AeGriff will still be unwed and free to marry Margaery. Whatever the case, I think the Tyrells have good reason to jump ship.

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1 hour ago, Tygett Lannister said:

Would Doran actually order a murder of Tommen though? Seems out of character and thematically incorrect. 

Doran doesn't need to be involved. It looks like Arianne is set up to marry Aegon out of ambition and then Tyene would need to clear the way for her cousin. 

It's not like they listen to Doran. 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

Doran doesn't need to be involved. It looks like Arianne is set up to marry Aegon out of ambition and then Tyene would need to clear the way for her cousin. 

It's not like they listen to Doran. 

Of course they listen to Doran. He is sending Tyene with a plan like he sent Oberyn. 

Edited by Tygett Lannister

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22 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

Of course they listen to Doran. He is sending Tyene with a plan like he sent Oberyn. 

Doran was so secure in their obedience, that after hearing and rejecting their plans of action he had all the Sand Snakes detained. Besides, we had eyes when he dispatched them. He sent Tyene forward with no more instructions than to infiltrate the Faith. 

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Tyene isn't going to kill anyone in the Red Keep. If a Sand Snake does that, it would be Lady Nym who had been sent to take Doran's seat on the Small Council. She would actually reside in the Red Keep, no need to infiltrate anything.

But that all depends whether there still is a Small Council for her to sit in when she arrives, not to mention that she has to get there at all. There is a chance that the Golden Company captures her on route to KL.

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29 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Tyene isn't going to kill anyone in the Red Keep. If a Sand Snake does that, it would be Lady Nym who had been sent to take Doran's seat on the Small Council. She would actually reside in the Red Keep, no need to infiltrate anything.

But that all depends whether there still is a Small Council for her to sit in when she arrives, not to mention that she has to get there at all. There is a chance that the Golden Company captures her on route to KL.

It was a rather stupid idea to send Myrcella and Nymeria back to King's Landing by land instead of by sea. Both on the part of Ser Balon and Prince Doran...

You have war elephants, cutthroats and sellswords littered across the Stormlands. What can go wrong?

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1 hour ago, The Sleeper said:

Doran was so secure in their obedience, that after hearing and rejecting their plans of action he had all the Sand Snakes detained. Besides, we had eyes when he dispatched them. He sent Tyene forward with no more instructions than to infiltrate the Faith. 

All part of the plan in educating Arianne. Sandsnakes knew they will be detained. They might not even be. 

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Am I the only one, who thinks, that Tyrells (Olenna and Redwynes) had conspired with Blackfyres all the way back in 282, or even earlier (that's the possible explanation, of why they were mostly inactive in the span of Robert's Rebellion)? Am I the only one, who thinks, that Margaery was part of Varys' plans for fAegon's future, and that her marriage with Renly, and then with Joffrey, was caused by Littlefinger's intervention into Varys' original plan?

Varys for years planned to marry fAegon to Arianne Martell and Margaery Tyrell, and thru those marriages to gain for Blackfyres military support of The Reach and Dorne. Though, unlike Martells, Tyrells knew about fAegon, and they were Varys' partners, not his marionettes like Martells. Oberyn (and Doran) Martell, unaware of Varys' plans, concerning Arianne and Dorne, went to Braavos, and offered to Willem Darry a marriage alliance between Viserys and Arianne. So to prevent that from happening, Varys killed Willem, and caused Targaryens to go on a constant run from imaginary enemies, dogs of Robert the Usurper.

I think, that Littlefinger and his father were Varys' agents. Because, possibly, they are dragonseeds, same as Varys. Littlefinger's great grandfather was a sellsword from Braavos. There are several hints in the books, that LF on one side of his family is a descendant of the Sealord of Braavos and the Black Pearl of Braavos (grandfather and granddaughter, not husband and wife), and on his other side he is a descendant of Aegon IV and either Falena Stokeworth, or Falena's daughter, Jeyne Lothston. I think, that LF's great great grandfather was the Bastard of Harrenhal, the one that in 193 AC was defeated by Ser Arlan of Pennytree. In my opinion, this guy was a knight in service of House Lothston, and later either him or his children founded House Whent, ancestors of Minisa Whent, mother of Catelyn, Lysa and Edmure Tully. So, if I'm right, then LF and Cat were third cousins, and all of Catelyn's children are carriers of dragon genes.

When Varys became free, because of what was said by the voice from a fire, during blood-magic ritual, during which Varys was gelded, he started to search for other carriers of dragon blood, like himself. That's why he became friends with Illyrio, and later, after settling in Westeros, made LF's father an agent of Blackfyres. Originally Kettleblacks were serving to Varys, but then changed their allegiance, and switched to serving LF.

In Varys' original plan, LF wasn't supposed to become one of the big players, he was supposed to be just a small pawn (though he knew about Varys' origin and his plans, concerning Iron Throne). But because of Lysa Tully falling in love with LF, it gave Petyr substantial leverage. Lysa convinced her husband to make LF a governmental official, and later he even became the Master of Coin, and a member of the Small Council. None of it was part of Varys' plan. Though at that time, prior LF had realised, that he doesn't need Varys, and that he can get out from under Varys' control, and instead of being his pawn, could play his own Game of Thrones, Varys, probably, was even happy, that his protege has reached unimaginable heights. So LF knew about Varys' plans, that he is going to make fAegon a King of 7K.

Though it's possible, that before fAegon's birth, and after Serra's death (who was Varys' sister, and died childless), Varys was considering LF, as a possible candidate to become a King (because of his drop of Targaryen dragon-blood). Though later Varys had found a better, more pure-blooded option - Barristan Selmy, possibly a grandson of Aenys Blackfyre. Varys had chosen a suitable woman for him, that also had a prior history with House Blackfyre (Lady Jeyne Swann), and ditched the plan with LF, as the future King.

I think, that Johanna Swann, the Black Swan of Lys, was mother of Larra Rogare, and thus, she was grandmother of Aegon IV, and great-grandmother of Daemon I Blackfyre, Daeron II Targaryen, Bittersteel, Bloodraven, Shiera Seastar, Viserys Plumm (ancestor of Brown Ben Plumm), the Bastard of Harrenhal (ancestor of LF and Catelyn Tully), Black Pearl of Braavos and her siblings, and Aegon's other children.

The laws of Essos allow a man to have more that one wife. The King of Astapor, Cleon, had three wives, and offered Dany to become his fouth. So, based on large number of Lysandro the Magnificent's children, he had many wives and concubines. And Johanna, Larra's mother, was one of Lysandro's wives. Also, based on information from Fire&Blood, I figured out, that prior Johanna became Lysandro's wife, she was a courtesan in a pleasure house/brothel, owned by Rogares, The Perfumed Garden. So, besides Jeyne Swann/Septa Lemore, being a parallel to Lady Jonquil, adittional reason, why she is the Perfumed Seneschal, is because her ancestor, Johanna Swann, was working in The Perfumed Garden. Another clue, that House Swann are connected to Blackfyres, is a story about a dragon, that killed Byron Swann. Byron was a knight of House Swann, not a Lord. After Byron's death, his squire wrote a letter to his daughter. About Johanna Swann it is known, that she was a niece of Lord Swann. So it seems to me, that Byron Swann was father of Johanna Swann, and grandfather of Larra Rogare. And, based on what was happening in Lys, after Larra went to 7K, it seems to me, that Johanna was killing her ex-clients from The Perfumed Garden, including her husband and Drazenko Rogare. So it's possible, that after she got rid of them, she returned to Westeros, and married back into House Swann. So current Swanns are bloodrelated to Blackfyres thru descendants of Johanna (both on Larra's side, and on Swann side).

So Lady Jeyne Swann is a carrier of genes, that are close to genetic pool of Blackfyres. And Barristan Selmy, is possibly, a grandson of Aenys Blackfyre. That's why Varys had chosen them as parents of the future King, and scemed a plan, how to make them to conceive that child (though Jeyne/Lemore was Varys' accomplice, not a victim like Barristan). Varys had sent Simon Toyne (possibly brother of Myles Toyne of Golden Company) to join Kingswood Brotherhood, and to set a trap for Barristan. Barristan saved Jeyne, her septa (that was actually Shiera Seastar in shadow-glamour (because she is a shadowbinder Quaithe)) gave him a drink, that was actually a love potion, and Jeyne seduced Barristan and got pregnant. A hint, that Shiera was able to make love potions, and was a shadowbinder, was given by GRRM in The Sworn Sword novel.

So, because Varys had fAegon, he didn't needed LF. Probably, he even planned to take away from LF a post of the Master of Coin, and instead to give it to Harry Strickland. And because LF thought, that he had earned this post, he wasn't OK with letting Varys to take it away. So he decided to rebell against Varys, and to use everything, that he knows about him and his plans, to become himself a King of 7K. That's why he made Lysa to poison her husband, and cause a fall of House Stark, and now has Sansa in his grasp.

He's not entirely against fAegon getting married with Margaery. On the contrary, he made it part of his Grand Plan. It was his idea, to marry Margaery first to Renly, and then to Joffrey. And it was his idea to help Tyrells to poison Joffrey. Probably, he is planning, that after fAegon will become King of 7K, and will be married to both Sansa and Margaery, LF will make Sansa to poison her husband (same as he did with Lysa and Jon Arryn). And the one, who will be used, as a scapegoat for that poisoning, will be Margaery. After fAegon's death, thanks to LF, it will become known to general public, that it was Tyrells, who poisoned King Joffrey. And Margaery's history with her previous husbands, and their sudden deaths, will portray Margaery, as a Black Widow, that killed her husbands, including King Aegon VI. So Margaery will be executed for high treason, and Sansa, that at that time will be either pregnant, or already will become a mother, will become a Queen-Regent of her little son, who will later become King of 7K. Though the baby will be actually Littlefinger's, not fAegon's, same as Robert Arryn is, most likely, LF's child and not Jon Arryn's.

I know, that it looks like a tinfoil fanfiction, but there are multiple clues in the books, that support nearly every single element of this theory. Except the part about LF, being a candidate to become a King of 7K, prior Varys aquired fAegon for that role; and fAegon dying from poisoning. It's likely, that LF is planning to use with Sansa and fAegon the same sceme, that he had used with Lysa and Jon Arryn. But I don't think, that those plans will become realised, because fAegon will die before LF will be able to use his sceme.

Besides LF using this sceme with Lysa and Jon, I got this idea, about Sansa poisoning fAegon, based on an episode, described in Fire&Blood, when little Queen of Aegon III nearly died, after eating poisoned apple tart. Only in Sansa's case, she would have used lemon tarts.

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8 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

All part of the plan in educating Arianne. Sandsnakes knew they will be detained. They might not even be. 

What? 

Never mind. The image I got from Feast is that the Sand Snakes are bloodthirsty, impulsive and unruly, while Arianne is ambitious. This is what this is based. If you saw them differently, I am not going to convince you. 

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4 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

What? 

Never mind. The image I got from Feast is that the Sand Snakes are bloodthirsty, impulsive and unruly, while Arianne is ambitious. This is what this is based. If you saw them differently, I am not going to convince you. 

And Oberyn their dad was also bloodthirsty, impulsive and unruly in your opinion? 

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19 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

And Oberyn their dad was also bloodthirsty, impulsive and unruly in your opinion? 

He caused a multitude of incidents throughout his life and ended up dying while involving himself in an affair that was none of his business, all the while intending to offer sanctuary and use an alleged regicide in an attempt to crown Myrcela and reignite a civil war with no known input from Doran at the time. 

So yeah, pretty much. 

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On 5/22/2019 at 1:46 PM, Blooddragon said:

I did not see anyone disscusing this, probably because I wasn't checking this forum recently.

Gorge wrote on his blog:

What did he mean by calling him Aegon VI? Is this a confirmation that fAegon will take the Iron Throne? Does it have any meaning at all?

Perhaps I'm just thirsty for his work that I take everything too seriously, as we all do, but by calling him Aegon VI GRRM really made me wonder. I want to know what you guys think. 

Take this information together with the lies that must be slain.  That sounds like somebody taking the throne based on a lie.  Yeah he will sit on the throne.  I don’t rightly know how he gets past the superior power of the Lannisters.  Some slight of hand trickery by Varys?  

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2 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

It was a rather stupid idea to send Myrcella and Nymeria back to King's Landing by land instead of by sea. Both on the part of Ser Balon and Prince Doran...

You have war elephants, cutthroats and sellswords littered across the Stormlands. What can go wrong?

They were sent back before the Golden Company invaded the Stormlands. It might turn out they are already in KL or about to reach it when Aegon moves against Storm's End, of course. But the possibility is there that Arianne is going to be greeted by Lady Nym and Myrcella upon her arrival in Storm's End.

If Nym makes it to KL she will certainly be a force to help end the reign of King Tommen and make way for Aegon. She doesn't have to get input from Doran or Arianne, she will just make her own decisions once she learns about Aegon.

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1 hour ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

I don’t rightly know how he gets past the superior power of the Lannisters.  Some slight of hand trickery by Varys?  

I think, that Varys and Blackfyres already have a lot of their agents in Westeros. It's likely, that those agents are Bronn, Balon Swann, Gerold Dayne, Salladhor Saan, Jalabhar Xho, etc. So it's possible, that amongst those 600 knights, that Balon and Bronn were knighting after the Battle of Blackwater, there are Varys' people, members of Golden Company, that were summoned by Varys, to come to Westeros, after his conversation with Illyrio (under the Red Keep). After they were knighted, they were installed amongst City Watch, and guards of KL, etc. Like those four sellswords, that Bronn brought into his household at castle Stokeworth. So thru those agents Varys had secretly established his control over the gates of KL, entrances into Red Keep, armories, etc. So when fAegon's army will approach KL, those people are going to give the city to him on a silver platter.

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2 hours ago, Aldarion said:

Just found this theory about Aegon being Ned Stark's bastard, to parallel Jon being Rhaegar's son:

https://towerofthehand.com/blog/2015/05/21-eddard-starks-other-bastard/noscript.html

Thoughts?

still doesn't tie up Ned Stark, the Fisherman's Daughter and the bag of silver left in Sisterton on Ned's flight to Winterfell in order to call his banners.

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Posted (edited)

If Aegon has to marry Arianne at Storm's End because he is unable to take KL as early as he would like too, there is a possibility of Storm's End being somehow attacked and Arianne dying saving Aegon like in the legend of Durran Godsgrief.

7 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Take this information together with the lies that must be slain.  That sounds like somebody taking the throne based on a lie.  Yeah he will sit on the throne.  I don’t rightly know how he gets past the superior power of the Lannisters.  Some slight of hand trickery by Varys?  

Dany is called the destroyer of lies at some point right? I seem to recall that. Maybe Dany hears that Aegon is supposedly an impostor, and it connects to her trying to take him out.

Edited by NonoNono

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6 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

They were sent back before the Golden Company invaded the Stormlands. It might turn out they are already in KL or about to reach it when Aegon moves against Storm's End, of course. But the possibility is there that Arianne is going to be greeted by Lady Nym and Myrcella upon her arrival in Storm's End.

If Nym makes it to KL she will certainly be a force to help end the reign of King Tommen and make way for Aegon. She doesn't have to get input from Doran or Arianne, she will just make her own decisions once she learns about Aegon.

You're right. My bad.

But you know what we really could use right about now?

A Cersei sample chapter. Because there's so much juicy interesting stuff occurring in King's Landing right now that'll be happening "onscreen" and "offscreen" that it'll be funny to see Cersei struggle to wade her way through it.

I don't expect Myrcella to show up in the first Cersei chapter but the second one makes sense. The Stormlands isn't that big of an province. I would be absolutely shocked and maybe a bit irritated for Myrcella and Nymeria to just be chilling in Storm's End.

It doesn't make sense. It's a massive continuity error because if Myrcella wasn't anywhere near King's Landing, was still stuck at Storm's End or had gone missing, Kevan and Cersei both would be flipping out in the epilogue chapter.

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2 minutes ago, NonoNono said:

Dany is called the destroyer of lies at some point right? I seem to recall that. Maybe Dany hears that Aegon is supposedly an impostor, and it connects to her trying to take him out.

She's the slayer of lies. Slayer has a bloodier, more hands-on, more personal and -- dare I say -- more heroic connotation than destroyer.

3 minutes ago, NonoNono said:

If Aegon has to marry Arianne at Storm's End because he is unable to take KL as early as he would like too, there is a possibility of Storm's End being somehow attacked and Arianne dying saving Aegon like in the legend of Durran Godsgrief.

That's super lame. At least Quentyn had a point and still effects the current storyline

But it will sUbVeRt OuR eXPeCTaTiOnS though, no doubt about that.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

She's the slayer of lies. Slayer has a bloodier, more hands-on, more personal and -- dare I say -- more heroic connotation than destroyer.

That's super lame. At least Quentyn had a point and still effects the current storyline

But it will sUbVeRt OuR eXPeCTaTiOnS though, no doubt about that.

I don't think Arianne is going to live, GRRM made her a quite determined character, and such characters usually end up suffering the consequences of trying to take their fate in their own hands pretty significantly.

Edited by NonoNono

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