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2 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

That's super lame. At least Quentyn had a point and still effects the current storyline

It remains to be seen if Quentyn had a point and still effects the current storyline.

People have their theories.  Mine is unpopular, but I find alternatives to be unconvincing.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, House Volton said:

Aegon may marry Myrcella instead of Arriane

Remember the Cersei's prophecy stated that all her children would be crowned

It says gold will be their crowns, and all of them have gold hair from birth.

Edited by Bael's Bastard

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4 hours ago, House Volton said:

Aegon may marry Myrcella instead of Arriane

Remember the Cersei's prophecy stated that all her children would be crowned

Myrcella is going to KL and Tommen might die. But possible I guess. Or it is just their hair colour. 

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It's obvious he's going to make a claim for himself. Once you make a claim you are calling yourself the rightful king, regardless of whether you actually have the throne

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On 5/25/2019 at 1:23 PM, NonoNono said:

I don't think Arianne is going to live, GRRM made her a quite determined character, and such characters usually end up suffering the consequences of trying to take their fate in their own hands pretty significantly.

I think she will live and have an important role in the story. She has already been humbled for trying to play the game of thrones. And she has learned from it. Personally I think she will identify Aegon as a fake and get Doran to wait for Daenerys. 

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Makk said:

I think she will live and have an important role in the story. She has already been humbled for trying to play the game of thrones. And she has learned from it. Personally I think she will identify Aegon as a fake and get Doran to wait for Daenerys. 

Why she would care he is a supposed fake if he is popular and on his way to defeat Cersei? What is in her interest to avoid marrying the next king? Plus after they all find out Dany burned Quentin (as they will surely believe) I don’t see Doran managing to convince her and her sisters to turn away from Aegon once Dany shows up. If Doran doesn’t want to support Aegon, he would find himself even more distant from them.

Edited by NonoNono

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34 minutes ago, NonoNono said:

Why she would care he is a supposed fake if he is popular and on his way to defeat Cersei? What is in her interest to avoid marrying the next king? Plus after they all find out Dany burned Quentin (as they will surely believe) I don’t see Doran managing to convince her and her sisters to turn away from Aegon once Dany shows up. If Doran doesn’t want to support Aegon, he would find himself even more distant from them.

They have a reason to NOT marry each other because they´re already supposedly cousins. Not that they have anything against incest, but since they´re already related, they should work together without marrying each other - each gain more allies for the family by marrying others.

 

It is not sure that the news of Quentyn´s death would blame Dany, rather than specify Quentyn got burnt in Dany´s absence.

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On 5/24/2019 at 11:53 PM, Platypus Rex said:

It remains to be seen if Quentyn had a point and still effects the current storyline.

People have their theories.  Mine is unpopular, but I find alternatives to be unconvincing.

Well, at the moment, he's let the dragons loose. They are on a rampage in the city. And they have already made Meereen twice as dangerous and the battle has only just begun...

13 hours ago, Jaak said:

It is not sure that the news of Quentyn´s death would blame Dany, rather than specify Quentyn got burnt in Dany´s absence.

True.

However, Arianne -- a few other characters such as Tyrion -- has already heard the news about the deaths of Viserys and Drogo. Arianne thinks that Dany had Viserys killed and then killed her husband which -- as we know -- is not really true.

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17 hours ago, Jaak said:

They have a reason to NOT marry each other because they´re already supposedly cousins. Not that they have anything against incest, but since they´re already related, they should work together without marrying each other - each gain more allies for the family by marrying others.

 

It is not sure that the news of Quentyn´s death would blame Dany, rather than specify Quentyn got burnt in Dany´s absence.

FAegon will want to marry someone with Targaryen blood. There aren't many women/girls from high born families who fit the bill... Shireen, Myrcella, Arianne and Dany... I don't think he would consider Shireen an option as she had greyscale. Myrcella is supposedly a Baratheon (we know she isn't) but the daughter of the usurper dog who didn't punish the murderers of his mother and sister, in his logic that won't do. His best option would be Dany (many around him think he needs to marry her to prove he's Rhaegar's son), I really doubt she'd go for it but she could surprise us... This only leaves Arianne... Who's already there and very beautiful... 

Now if he were logical he would go for Margaery to secure the Reach (but at this point she's damaged goods) or a Stark girl (Sansa) to ally with the North and the Riverlands (but very little people know where she is). But I don't think he's that logical. 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Well, at the moment, he's let the dragons loose. They are on a rampage in the city. And they have already made Meereen twice as dangerous and the battle has only just begun...

You don't need 4 Quentyn POV chapters, and plenty more Quentyn backstory in other chapters, just to have 2 dragons escape.  Just have guards run up to Barristan and say "The dragons have escaped".   It would take only a few more words to supply a plausible explanation.  They had already melted their chains and were digging through rock.   Maybe some enemies could break in to kill the dragons, and accidentally release them.  That's more or less what happened anyway.  But it does not matter what explanation the guards give Barristan.  Take your pick, but whatever it is, it does not require 100+ wasted pages. 

Edited by Platypus Rex

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9 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

However, Arianne -- a few other characters such as Tyrion -- has already heard the news about the deaths of Viserys and Drogo. Arianne thinks that Dany had Viserys killed and then killed her husband which -- as we know -- is not really true.

That she killed her husband is literally true, His bloodriders agreed. There would have been (Dothraki!) witnesses to Drogo´s festering wound and falling off a horse, but Daenerys does not have a good alibi.

There were a number of (again Dothraki) witnesses to the coronation at Vaes Dothrak - but the preceding talks between Daenerys and Drogo were not witnessed. Again no alibi.

In case of Quentyn, Daenerys has a better advertised alibi.

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On 5/24/2019 at 10:00 PM, Megorova said:

I think, that Varys and Blackfyres already have a lot of their agents in Westeros. It's likely, that those agents are Bronn, Balon Swann, Gerold Dayne, Salladhor Saan, Jalabhar Xho, etc. So it's possible, that amongst those 600 knights, that Balon and Bronn were knighting after the Battle of Blackwater, there are Varys' people, members of Golden Company, that were summoned by Varys, to come to Westeros, after his conversation with Illyrio (under the Red Keep). After they were knighted, they were installed amongst City Watch, and guards of KL, etc. Like those four sellswords, that Bronn brought into his household at castle Stokeworth. So thru those agents Varys had secretly established his control over the gates of KL, entrances into Red Keep, armories, etc. So when fAegon's army will approach KL, those people are going to give the city to him on a silver platter.

Does those agents know about Varys plan, or are they just predisposed to joining fAegon?

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3 hours ago, norwaywolf123 said:

Does those agents know about Varys plan, or are they just predisposed to joining fAegon?

They know parts of Varys' plan. But it's unlikely, that he shares a lot of information with his people. Mostly, they are just his pawns. Even his people at Golden Company, don't know the whole plan.

Amongst people of 7K there are obviously those, that are already fed up with Lannisters, and all the rest of the participants of the War of the Five Kings. So, many people in Westeros will gladly support Targaryen restoration, if they will be made to believe, that fAegon is a long lost son of Rhaegar Targaryen.

Though I didn't meant, that Varys is already using people like that - those, that are no one, and know nothing, and are just predisposed to joining fAegon. For now, there's no people like that. Because general public of 7K doesn't know yet about fAegon's existance, so there's no reason for them, to secretly become his supporters, and already helping to Varys now.

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On 5/22/2019 at 2:40 PM, Megorova said:

Stannis wasn't anointed by High Septon, and neither was Dany, or Robb, or Renly, or any other out of Five Kings, nevertheless they called themselves Kings/Queen. In The Mystery Knight novel John the Fiddler, who was actually son of Daemon Blackfyre, was referred to by his people as King Daemon II Blackfyre. So fAegon's people are going to present him to citizens of 7K as King Aegon VI.

In my opinion, fAegon is a secret Blackfyre, thus his invasion into Westeros is actually the Sixth Blackfyre Rebellion (the War of the Ninepenny Kings was the fifth). Also I think that fAegon and Golden Company are GRRM's parallel to Biblical Antichrist, the Beast out of the Sea. Six Blackfyre Rebellions, Aegon the Sixth, so there's supposed to be one more Six, to form Biblical number of the Beast. In my opinion, most likely, out of 7K of Westeros, Six Kingdoms, excluding The North, will submit to fAegon.

fAegon could also be a parallel to Biblical King from the South [edit to this below], while Stannis is a parallel to King from the North (in the Bible Northern King was called stern-faced -> "In the last days of those kingdoms, when rebellions are finished, a stern-looking king who understands mysterious things will rise to power." Daniel 8:23; AGOT, Eddard VI - "Stannis was a different sort of man; a bare year younger than the king, yet utterly unlike him, stern, humorless, unforgiving, grim in his sense of duty.")

And this could mean, that there will be an epidemy of greyscale amongst followers of fAegon - "And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image." - Revelation 16:2.

fAegon is the Beast, and Littlefinger is his False Prophet. In the Bible the False Prophet said to people to make an image of the Beast, and to worship it. And Littlefinger was secretly gathering Targaryen tapestries, to use them later, when he will be persuading people of 7K to follow King Aegon VI (and will offer to fAegon a marriage with Sansa, that's the real reason, why LF is keeping her with him, to use her as a bargaining chip).

Based on description of the False Prophet in the Bible (dragon's voice, lamb's horns), I think that Littlefinger is a descendant of Aegon IV Targaryen and Falena Stokeworth (there's a lamb on their House's banner), and is bloodrelated to House Whent, who are also descendants of Aegon and Falena (thru the Bastard of Harrenhal, who was either son of Aegon and Falena, or a child of Aegon and daughter of Aegon and Falena - Jeyne Lothston). If my guess is correct, then Littlefinger and Catelyn Tully are third cousins, and all of Catelyn's children have a bit of dragonblood (approximately 1/32, about the same amount as Brown Ben Plumm).

And some time after fAegon will fight against Stannis (because in the Bible, prior arrival of the rightful King, Jesus, the King from the South and the King from the North were fighting against each other), the dead will rise - "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake" Daniel 12.

And here's what inspired GRRM to create a one-horned "unicorns" - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dan_8_ram_and_he-goat.jpg

it's a picture from the Bible, chapter 8 of the Book of Daniel, in which he described Apocalypse.

If anyone is wondering what ASOIAF and GRRM has to do with the Bible, then you haven't read his stories such as "Call him Moses", and "The Way of Cross and Dragon"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuf_Voyaging#"Call_Him_Moses"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Way_of_Cross_and_Dragon

Even though those two stories are sci-fi, there's a lot of Biblical elements used in them.

So GRRM, letting slip that little part about Aegon VI, is actually a huge HUGE spoiler, about what to expect in the future books.

And I won't be surprised, if it will turn out later, that the unnatural climate changes on Planetos are caused by terraforming device from Tuf's space-ship (from that story - "Call him Moses"), that thousands years ago crashed on Planetos (that second moon from Dothraki legends, that cracked like an egg, and dragons poured out of it), and that the dragons were also created by Tuf in his lab, like he created cobalcats in "A Beast for Norn" novel. Which means, that events of ASOIAF are happening in GRRM's "Thousand Worlds" universe.

 

Edit: In the Bible both Northern and Southern Kings had daughters, and the King from the South had a subordinate, who became more powerful than his King, and for some time they were in opposition to each other, but later joined forces to fight against the King from the North. So it's looks more likely, that GRRM's parallel to the King from the South is Doran Martell (not fAegon), his subordinate-enemy-ally is Gerold Dayne, the Darkstar.

Nah. You really think GRRM is going through all this for a biblical metaphor? Nah. Just, nah.

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34 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

Nah. You really think GRRM is going through all this for a biblical metaphor? Nah. Just, nah.

Not by itself, but the biblical metaphors actually serve a purpose. It tries to teach us about things that are timeless. The hero reborn is actually on several different religions as is the "great evil" and the "great good". It's something we humans write about since... Well... Forever. So it makes sense that many of those elements are inserted on GrrM work. He likes history and not only history, but those symbolisms.

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2 hours ago, Leonardo said:

Nah. You really think GRRM is going through all this for a biblical metaphor? Nah. Just, nah.

Yes, I think that the First Long Night was a parallel to the battle between Devil and Archangel Michael (Azor Ahai), and that the upcoming Long Night is a parallel to Biblical Apocalypse.

The three heads of the dragon is a parallel to The Holy Trinity, only in ASOIAF it's The Mother (Dany on Drogon), The Son (Rhaego on Rhaegal), and The Holy Ghost (Jon on Viserion);

Dany also is a parallel to Mother Mary - three wise men from the east, following a Bleeding Star comet, came to her, to see her dragon-babies, same as three wise men from the east, following a Star of Bethlehem (Christmas Star), came to Marry to see newborn Jesus;

The Woman Clothed in the Sun, that was pregnant with a male child, and was running from Dragon/Devil. The Dragon was held back, delayed near the God's Throne, and the Woman managed to escape from him into the wilderness, where she gave birth to her son, that was then taken into heaven (not died). And later returned to fight in a war against the Dragon, and his supporters - Antichrist/The Beast out of the Sea, and the False Prophet/The Beast out of the Earth. This is a basis for Dany's wandering in the Dothraki Sea and the Red Waste, and Rhaego's birth, and even hatching of her dragons (when she went into the flames of Drogo's funeral pyre, she was "clothed in the sun"). Varys is the Dragon, fAegon and Golden Company are the Beast out of the Sea, Littlefinger is the False Prophet;

Her child was called King of kings and Lord of lords, the Great Shepherd, that will unite all people into one nation, and the Promised Prince. He was leading an army of horsemen. And his horse was up in the sky. And his hair was white. In ASOIAF Rhaego was called the Khal of khals (which means "king" in Dothraki). According to the prophecy about the Stallion that mounts the world, he is going to make all people of the world his herd, like the Great Shepherd. And he is going to lead all Dothraki, so they are a parallel to Jesus' army of horsemen. And his hair is "white" - silver-gold;

Dawn sword of Daynes is Azor Ahai's Lightbringer. Jon, who is going to become the next Sword of the Morning, is also a parallel to Jesus. In the Bible Jesus was called Agnus Dei, Lamb of God, slayin but standing, killed by his enemies but alive again. Lightbringer in Latin means Lucifer. It's a name of planet Venus, the Star of the Morning, it was a name of fallen angel (and Dawn was forged from the heart of a fallen star), and a name of Jesus (there's a hymn about Jesus with words "Tu verus mundi Lucifer" - "You are the true light bringer of the world").

 

Though, not everything in ASOIAF is Bible-based. For example, all political elements, everything about the ancient history of Planetos, about Great Houses of Westeros, about the Weirwood and the Children of the Forest, First Men and Andals, etc., is written by GRRM, without usage of a side sources, as a basis or a parallel.

Furthermore, on the Bible is based only the part of ASOIAF about confrontation between three-headed dragon of Targaryens and a one-headed dragon of Blackfyres. Dany, Rhaego, and Jon against Varys and fAegon. While the Three-Eyed Crow, Bloodraven, Bran, the Weirwood, the Children of the Forest, Night's Watch, wildlings, wights - all of that is a separated plot-line. A different war. Same as The War of the Five Kings, and all the other political struggles in ASOIAF, are elements of a third Big War.

In the beginning of The World Book, there's a picture, The Known World. On that picture with a political map of two continents, there's a shadow of a three-headed dragon above Westeros, and a one-headed dragon above Essos, facing each other, and in lower left corner below Westeros, there's what looks like a burning Weirwood, with smoke and cinders rising up in the air (though it could be just a sunrise, and not a fire). This picture is basically the summary of the entire series, what it is all about.

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22 hours ago, Jaak said:

That she killed her husband is literally true, His bloodriders agreed. There would have been (Dothraki!) witnesses to Drogo´s festering wound and falling off a horse, but Daenerys does not have a good alibi.

There were a number of (again Dothraki) witnesses to the coronation at Vaes Dothrak - but the preceding talks between Daenerys and Drogo were not witnessed. Again no alibi.

In case of Quentyn, Daenerys has a better advertised alibi.

Daenerys neither killed Drogo nor Viserys. She was present for both and, in the case of Drogo, played a important role. But she did not kill them; she didn't even want them to die. To say she did is inaccurate and disingenuous.

Did Arianne kill Ser Arys? More fatalistic people would say "yes, she did" but the truth of the matter is that Arianne did not kill Ser Arys nor did she let Areo Hotah kill him.

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On 5/22/2019 at 11:46 AM, Blooddragon said:

I did not see anyone disscusing this, probably because I wasn't checking this forum recently.

Gorge wrote on his blog:

What did he mean by calling him Aegon VI? Is this a confirmation that fAegon will take the Iron Throne? Does it have any meaning at all?

Perhaps I'm just thirsty for his work that I take everything too seriously, as we all do, but by calling him Aegon VI GRRM really made me wonder. I want to know what you guys think. 

I’m glad someone else noticed it! It was great for me, because my name “aegon vii” is in reference to jon, and people always argued that  (f)Aegon wouldn’t be Aegon VI because rhaegar was disowned. So to me it confirms that Jon will be Aegon VII, the missing seventh ruby we’ve been waiting to wash up

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10 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

I’m glad someone else noticed it! It was great for me, because my name “aegon vii” is in reference to jon, and people always argued that  (f)Aegon wouldn’t be Aegon VI because rhaegar was disowned. So to me it confirms that Jon will be Aegon VII, the missing seventh ruby we’ve been waiting to wash up

I also always though that Jon will be VII and its a reference to Henry VII, there are even clues in Henry's coat of arms: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Coat_of_Arms_of_Henry_VII_of_England_(1485-1509).svg red dragon and white hound.

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