Scott Lynch's Thorn of Emberlain is Not Completed

[Gaston de Foix]

On 5/23/2020 at 9:52 PM, Rhom said:

That said, if I’m Scott, from now on I don’t announce a damn thing about the book until it’s been edited and is on the way to the printer.

We can handle silence far more than false hope.

I think Scott is following Rhom's advice....

[Vaughn]

1) Damn you all to hell for posting on here without a publication date (self included) Raising my hopes... 

2) business of writing question - if he's delivered three good books already, it is really possible that the publisher/editor would reject his final draft to the extent that the publish date would slip by over a year? A first novel in a series maybe but unless he suddenly revealed that the Eldren were actually Smurfs or something, I can't see it at this point. When the book is published, I'm going to buy it independent of any review and suspect most fans will. Now if the fourth books sucks, then sure, maybe I'd be wary of the fifth book but that's not where we are with the series. 

[felice]

3 hours ago, Vaughn said:

1) Damn you all to hell for posting on here without a publication date (self included) Raising my hopes... 

Can someone change the thread title?

3 hours ago, Vaughn said:

2) business of writing question - if he's delivered three good books already, it is really possible that the publisher/editor would reject his final draft to the extent that the publish date would slip by over a year?

It's not a rejection, it's standard for every manuscript to get feedback from the editor no matter how experienced the author, and the length of the delay isn't necessarily indicative of the amount of editing required. It could theoretically be as minimal as "does this one sentence need an Oxford comma for clarity?", but if it takes him a year to decide, then you've got a year's delay. The actual edits are probably more substantial than that, though, and it could easily feel like rejection even if he knows logically that it's a normal part of the process, which wouldn't help with his mental health.

[Werthead]

It could also be a publishing capacity issue. Gollancz are publishing more books than they have ever done before and they have a lot of projects going on (like the Fantasy and SF Masterworks) and they're embarking on things like a big reprinting effort for Anne MacCaffrey's Pern books (including the first non-US audiobooks of the series), so it might well be that they have a logjam, and due to the contract Bantam can't publish the book in the US until Gollancz have a date for it in the UK.

Scott is a priority for them - The Lies of Lock Lamora is one of their biggest legacy sellers, I believe, apart from Abercrombie and Rothfuss - but I can also see the argument that holding fire on the book isn't a huge problem because Books 4-7 are supposed to be much more tightly serialised than 1-3, so if they can collapse the gap between 4 and 5 down a bit as well, that's not a bad thing.

[Gaston de Foix]

3 hours ago, Werthead said:

Scott is a priority for them - The Lies of Lock Lamora is one of their biggest legacy sellers, I believe, apart from Abercrombie and Rothfuss - but I can also see the argument that holding fire on the book isn't a huge problem because Books 4-7 are supposed to be much more tightly serialised than 1-3, so if they can collapse the gap between 4 and 5 down a bit as well, that's not a bad thing.

Wert's words have me fantasizing that they might release book 4 and 5 back to back like Butcher is doing for the Dresden Files.  But the more rational part of my mind is pointing out that such a happy event depends on the successful delivery of book 5 by Scott at a fairly unprecedented speed. 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Gaston de Foix

[Peach King]

I really loved the first book in the series, and flew through it in three days, but now I'm on the second book and it's uh. terrible. 

I've only covered 100 pages in 2 weeks. I can't really pinpoint the source of the letdown but maybe I'm not too attached to Locke and Jean as compared to the Gentleman Bastards?? Idk, I love reading about tight knit group of friends who practise crime together (and l don't mean the Mafia) and now it's just a....duo. Maybe it's the venue? What really attracted me to the series was the worldbuilding, and I don't like this new city. All I can imagine is a cement complex. The tonal shift is jarring too, I guess I preferred it when it was lighthearted and not more complex than conning rich people out of their money.

I don't really have a reason for this rant except for hoping that there are fellow commiserrators, I guess. I'll still read all of it, but I hope it picks up soon.

[Werthead]

2 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

Wert's words have me fantazising that they might release book 4 and 5 back to back like Butcher is doing for the Dresden Files.  But the more rational part of my mind is pointing out that such a happy event depends on the successful delivery of book 5 by Scott at a fairly unprecedented speed. 

A key part of the problem is that Scott can actually write pretty damn fast, and he apparently gets the bulk of the first draft done reasonably quickly (probably under two years). The problem is finishing and then revising and re-editing, which sometimes leads to major structural rewrites, if not the whole book being rewritten.

I think Scott may have taken the criticisms of Red Seas Under Red Skies - which was written, edited, revised and released in all about 18 months - a bit too much to heart, and feared he rushed that book and the result has been a massive tilting in the other direction of constant rewrites and re-edits that may not always be strictly beneficial (we know GRRM has the same issue, and Rothfuss seems to have nothing but this as an issue). I think the truth is that LoLL was always one of those outstanding ideas and debuts and it's no shame if other books can't quite live up to it (some of the responses to RSUS went way past that though).

No insider knowledge there, just things based on what he's said in the past in interviews.

[Gaston de Foix]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

A key part of the problem is that Scott can actually write pretty damn fast, and he apparently gets the bulk of the first draft done reasonably quickly (probably under two years). The problem is finishing and then revising and re-editing, which sometimes leads to major structural rewrites, if not the whole book being rewritten.

I think Scott may have taken the criticisms of Red Seas Under Red Skies - which was written, edited, revised and released in all about 18 months - a bit too much to heart, and feared he rushed that book and the result has been a massive tilting in the other direction of constant rewrites and re-edits that may not always be strictly beneficial (we know GRRM has the same issue, and Rothfuss seems to have nothing but this as an issue). I think the truth is that LoLL was always one of those outstanding ideas and debuts and it's no shame if other books can't quite live up to it (some of the responses to RSUS went way past that though).

No insider knowledge there, just things based on what he's said in the past in interviews.

That seems like a very fair assessment.  I personally don't think RSURS was rushed or a poor novel and re-reading it after the Republic of Thieves made me appreciate a lot of world building and character development I didn't see before.  Ultimately Scott will be judged on the strength of the series as a whole and it promises to be some of the funniest and cleverest fantasy written (leaving aside Sir Terry who stands apart from mortals). 

Obviously the challenge for Scott (as for GRRM) is to sustain the quality of those earlier, brilliant novel(s).  And the adrenaline rush of a caper novel doesn't really lend itself to slower notes of character development.  But what you lose in concision of plot you gain in epic scope and delayed gratification.  Anyway, all of this is to say, he should trust his judgment and publish. 

[mcbigski]

On 5/24/2020 at 10:06 PM, Starkess said:

I think this is a really unnecessary response to someone posting a mild-mannered question about a draft that was completed a year ago. It was not an attack on the author nor an entitled demand. 

I think that in reference to a Neil Gaiman post that said "George Martin is not your Bitch" about someone complaining about when a Storm of Swords was coming out.

[3CityApache]

7 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

Wert's words have me fantasizing that they might release book 4 and 5 back to back like Butcher is doing for the Dresden Files.  

But Butcher is doing so because both books were originally meant to be one, isn't he?

Has Scott ever hinted he already started writing book 5 at all?

[Jussi]

On 5/27/2020 at 1:22 AM, Werthead said:

The Lies of Lock Lamora is one of their biggest legacy sellers, I believe, apart from Abercrombie and Rothfuss

There is also Sapkowski. The Last Wish was published by Gollancz in 2007.

 

I am one of the few people who consider Red Seas Under Red Skies to be a stronger book than The Lies of Locke Lamora. Maybe it is because of nautical segments of RSURS - sea adventure is more interesting genre to me than caper novel. The Republic of Thieves is the weakest one in the Gentleman Bastard Sequence so far, but still a really good book which I greatly enjoyed reading.

[Werthead]

2 hours ago, Jussi said:

There is also Sapkowski. The Last Wish was published by Gollancz in 2007.

Well yes, but a hit video game and TV show will do that for you,

[Gaston de Foix]

5 hours ago, Werthead said:

Well yes, but a hit video game and TV show will do that for you,

I feel like the Lies of Locke Lamore would make a decent videogame and Camorr would make a pretty cool setting. 

[Argonath Diver]

2 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

I feel like the Lies of Locke Lamore would make a decent videogame and Camorr would make a pretty cool setting. 

Especially the spinoff online competitive card game where you're forced to drink random vials of potent liquor being spat out by a mechanism attached to your PC.

Sign me up

[HexMachina]

13 hours ago, Jussi said:

There is also Sapkowski. The Last Wish was published by Gollancz in 2007.

 

I am one of the few people who consider Red Seas Under Red Skies to be a stronger book than The Lies of Locke Lamora. Maybe it is because of nautical segments of RSURS - sea adventure is more interesting genre to me than caper novel. The Republic of Thieves is the weakest one in the Gentleman Bastard Sequence so far, but still a really good book which I greatly enjoyed reading.

For me it is still Lies>RSURS>RoT, mostly because I just love the moments where we see all of the Gentleman Bastards interacting. Probably why the flashbacks of RoT are my favourite parts of that book. 

However, i found all of the books more enjoyable on a re-read, and I think they are all very good. I’m not sure how i felt about the ending of RoT and the direction the story might take as a result, but I have faith that Scott will be able to pull it off. And even if I don’t like the story direction, I’m sure it will be a hell of an entertaining read anyway

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

On 5/28/2020 at 4:21 PM, Gaston de Foix said:

I feel like the Lies of Locke Lamore would make a decent videogame and Camorr would make a pretty cool setting. 

If some jackass suggests finishing the series as a game I’m going to lose my cool.  Books.  We want to read books.

 

[Gaston de Foix]

Yikes.  The wrath of Ser Scott is a fearsome thing.  Do not ride forth with your lance and shield Ser, my suggestion was for a video game series as an addition to the books.  I like books too. 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Gaston de Foix

[Rhom]

35 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

If some jackass suggests finishing the series as a game I’m going to lose my cool.  Books.  We want to read books.

 

Which is funny... because I had the opposite rage when they cancelled the DLC for Mass Effect: Andromeda and released a book.   

[A wilding]

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

If some jackass suggests finishing the series as a game I’m going to lose my cool.  Books.  We want to read books.

We may have been lucky with ASoIaF being finished as a TV show after all?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

BOOOOOOOKKKKKKSSSSSS!!!!