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Scott Lynch's Thorn of Emberlain is Not Completed


Jerol
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Do you guys think that someone in Jaime's position can have close friends? He's the guy who's having sex with his sister and if anyone found out it would mean death for both of them (at least until they took the throne over) so it's not as if he can really open up to anyone. He's killed the King he was sworn to protect so he's been shunned by most people ever since, and looked down upon by his Kingsguard brothers. Outside of his family, some of whom he has very strong connections with, he's only in contact with people who are either his underlings or are looking to get something from him. Similar goes for most nobles, though with different details.

That's why we get the best examples of friendship from a group of young guys who who have been cut off from their families and friends and are in need of new connections.

Edited by baxus
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I mean it’s true that Lynch has a better example of young male friendship but you might as well say that GRRM is better at medieval politics. It’s just different subject matter. But if you want to directly compare them on that, is Dunk and Egg not a fairly close match to the bantering camaraderie of Locke/Jean?

Wheel of Time is a better example of a fantasy “failing” to do good friendships, it’s a story about a bunch of friends who don’t really act that much like friends.

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AOIAF compared to GB is also complicated on the friendship level in that there is a web of obligations in Westeros that isn't any near as formal in Camorr, at least at the level of the protagonists.  Is Jeyne Sansa's friend or her attendant?  Do Bronn and Tyrion have a friendship?  Different at the Wall, of course.  But at the level the story focuses on, there are only so many near peers for any given character.  Are Locke and Jean that different than Illyrio and Varys?  (almost a perfect parallel to me it seems, based on the current progress of the relative stories.)

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Shared Abercrombie’s tweet in that thread.  I’ve found it interesting to see the recent PubishingPaidMe posts from some of the authors around we talk about around here.

 

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That whole hashtag is interesting. The average advance for a first time novel seems to be around £6,000 in the UK, $5-10,000 in the USA. That is exactly the same as the first-time advances were in the mid-1980s.

However, because of inflation obviously that advance is worth far less today. In the 1980s you also got a lot of marketing and publicity from the publisher as well as your advance, things that you will be expected to do all yourself today as well as write the book.

Abercrombie did well getting a £10,000 advance for each of the first three books in his first trilogy, and Scott for $15,000 for his first book. Those were both first books with a lot of hype behind them (Lynch moreso), but even so, those advances are still no great shakes.

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I’m lucky in that my publisher pays an advance (mid 3 figures) per book; it’s not uncommon for small presses to pay no advance. It’ll be some time before (if ever) I earn it out. 

As interesting to read the comments from fairly known writers like the above and Tchaikovsky. JK Nemsin (sp) had quite a lot to say.

Edited by Derfel Cadarn
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1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

I’m lucky in that my publisher pays an advance (mid 3 figures) per book; it’s not uncommon for small presses to pay no advance. It’ll be some time before (if ever) I earn it out. 

As interesting to read the comments from fairly known writers like the above and Tchaikovsky. JK Nemsin (sp) had quite a lot to say.

Tchaikovsky’s comments about his deal for the video game rights were amusing as well.  Basically, he thought they’d never make money so he demanded his entire pay up front.

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6 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Tchaikovsky’s comments about his deal for the video game rights were amusing as well.  Basically, he thought they’d never make money so he demanded his entire pay up front.

That's exactly what Sapkowski demanded from CD Project for The Witcher rights as well.

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10 minutes ago, 3CityApache said:

That's exactly what Sapkowski demanded from CD Project for The Witcher rights as well.

Maybe that’s who I meant and just got confused because I had also been reading his update. :dunno: 

There was also a guy I never heard of who I guess has done a lot of crime fiction and one fantasy who said he gets paid a lot more for crime fiction.

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10 hours ago, Rhom said:

There was also a guy I never heard of who I guess has done a lot of crime fiction and one fantasy who said he gets paid a lot more for crime fiction.

Yeah, James Oswald, it seems like fantasy is his first love, I’ve seen him around cons and stuff. Still decent amount for his Sir Benfro series, which I wouldn’t have said was very popular.

But his crime books (actually crime with an undercurrent of fantasy) are mega bestsellers in the UK, so I’m sure they’re taking that into account after the first one, as well as crime just being bigger than fantasy.

Also interesting Jemisin saying she didn’t ask for big advances, she’d rather have regular royalty cheques. She does confirm the publishing industry is racist though.

Edited by john
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10 hours ago, Rhom said:

Maybe that’s who I meant and just got confused because I had also been reading his update. :dunno: 

There was also a guy I never heard of who I guess has done a lot of crime fiction and one fantasy who said he gets paid a lot more for crime fiction.

Yeah I think he’s confused Sapowsky with Tchaikovsky.

James Oswald is the Scottish writer who mentioned he gets a bigger advsncr for his crime fiction. I’vr not read his fantasy stiff but enjoy the crime stuff, set in Edinburgh, and has a supernatural element. The Inspector Maclean series.

He oroginally self-pubbed thr first couple of crime books, and got a trad publisher when they did well. Which might explain the better deal. Also, Tartan Noir is quite popular

Edited by Derfel Cadarn
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39 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

I’vr not read his fantasy stiff but enjoy the crime stuff, set in Edinburgh, and has a supernatural element. The Inspector Maclean series.

Natural Causes being the first book in the supernaturalish series?

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2 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

James Oswald is the Scottish writer who mentioned he gets a bigger advsncr for his crime fiction. I’vr not read his fantasy stiff but enjoy the crime stuff, set in Edinburgh, and has a supernatural element. The Inspector Maclean series

So... like a Scottish Dresden Files?!!?

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10 minutes ago, Rhom said:

So... like a Scottish Dresden Files?!!?

No (my books are sort-of that :P) .

Oswald’s much subtler. There’s definitely a supernatural element (demons, spirits, magic of a sort), but it’s quite lowkey. Maclean mostly believes, but he’s also a bit in denial. There is a ‘community’ of sorts but as of book 5 we only see glimpses of it. Maclean can see elements of the supernatural but has no powers as such. 

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2 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

No (my books are sort-of that :P) .

Oswald’s much subtler. There’s definitely a supernatural element (demons, spirits, magic of a sort), but it’s quite lowkey. Maclean mostly believes, but he’s also a bit in denial. There is a ‘community’ of sorts but as of book 5 we only see glimpses of it. Maclean can see elements of the supernatural but has no powers as such. 

Sounds a bit like John Connolly.  I'd like to see him post in the paidme thread.  I would imagine he gets pretty good deals.

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On 6/4/2020 at 9:49 PM, mcbigski said:

AOIAF compared to GB is also complicated on the friendship level in that there is a web of obligations in Westeros that isn't any near as formal in Camorr, at least at the level of the protagonists.  Is Jeyne Sansa's friend or her attendant?  Do Bronn and Tyrion have a friendship?  Different at the Wall, of course.  But at the level the story focuses on, there are only so many near peers for any given character.  Are Locke and Jean that different than Illyrio and Varys?  (almost a perfect parallel to me it seems, based on the current progress of the relative stories.)

The setting of a world torn apart by war also informs the GoT side of things, although there are countless stories (fiction and non) about how deep bonds of friendship and loyalty can be formed during the extremes of war. Outside of Jon's ragtag band at the Wall, there's not a lot of that present in the books. None of Martin's characters is at home or with family (nuclearish family, not relatives) anymore outside of Dorne. Martin seems to use the war setting to explore the darker sides of human nature whereas Lynch uses his world to explore, in part, the depths of friendship and loyalty. (Disclaimer - both are fine.)

I think of illyria and Varys as being much more associates with a common goal than deep friends but it's been a bit since I read those chapters. 

 

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2 hours ago, Rhom said:

So... like a Scottish Dresden Files?!!?

Man, I wish that existed. No the McLean books are almost pure police procedural, with just a tiny taste of supernatural to intrigue fantasy fans.

eta - Yes! I’d also recommend Derfel’s books if you want a bit of supernatural crime in Scotland.

14 minutes ago, Inkdaub said:

Sounds a bit like John Connolly.  I'd like to see him post in the paidme thread.  I would imagine he gets pretty good deals.

Connolly is a lot darker and spookier. Oswald is more like Rankin, except a ghost might’ve dunnit

And yeah, we were talking about his deals. :P I believe he said 50k (gbp) for his five book fantasy series and 150k for the first two McLean books, climbing to 200k as the series went on.

Edited by john
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