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Corvinus

Star Trek: Picard

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You could have done a similar thing with Akiva Goldsman though, who is a writer on the show and wrote Batman Forever and Batman & Robin, among other shitty things. 

Goldsman was a writer and Kurtzman the co-creator on Fringe, which was surprisingly excellent. Neither was involved as showrunner though.

The primary creative force on Picard is Michael Chabon, the Pulitzer Award, Hugo Award-winning novelist and sometimes cited as one of the greatest living American authors, and who's already proven his Star Trek chops by writing possibly the best episode of the franchise since DS9 ended (Calypso). It's impressive they managed to get him to come down to working on a TV show, but he's an old-skool Trek fan.

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Just read this long interview with PatStew from back in December and I'm sure the direction of the show will sound encouraging to some (like me) and not to others who don't want to see The Federation having faltered.

https://variety.com/2020/tv/features/patrick-stewart-star-trek-picard-cbs-all-access-1203459573/

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“The world of ‘Next Generation’ doesn’t exist anymore. It’s different. Nothing is really safe. Nothing is really secure.”

Yeah, that sounds super promising! Sure Alex Kurtzman is the guy to make such a premise work... /s

This is just diplomatic speech for "The writers are taking a dumb on canon, completely miss the nature of the setting and all this because they want to do their own thing without having to adhere to the name of the franchise they have been hired for". I am also really antsy about them emphasizing the humanist messages of past Star Trek and then saying that instead of that they want to focus on how awful the world right now is. That might just be the interpretation of the interviewer, but it still makes me highly uneasy that there is truth to this. How exactly do you think the original Star Trek intended to change the world, to change society? Not by portraying the future as just as bad as the present day, but to show that people can do better for crying out loud! That is Star Trek and always has been in its best moments! I say fuck everyone who wants the world of Star Trek to be miserable and bleak JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER FUCKING SHOW.

Ugh... I hate to be always this guy, but given how awful Discovery was from start to finish and how flimsy of a reason there is for this Picard thing to exist, I just.... I just can't make myself not be super pessimistic about this. It will likely just become another soulless piece of nonsense that I have to mentally exorcise from the canon of a big franchise that deserves better.

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Just because its not what you want doesn't mean that its soulless, and if Stewart thought it was that I think the interview makes it pretty clear he wouldn't be doing it. The real world fluctuates and the Federation was as Utopian as is realistic in the TNG era, it makes perfect sense that a Federation reeling from the Dominion War and the destruction of Romulus/the fall of one of its major rival powers would have some knock on effects. There is a story to be told in how people within that society will act to try and prevent a slide into a worse way of thinking, and that is extremely relevant to the current world as we see the Anglosphere nations rushing towards fascism. That's not at all soulless. 

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6 hours ago, karaddin said:

Just because its not what you want doesn't mean that its soulless

I'll remind you of that after it aired. I think you are mistaking my pessimism for entitlement once again. Because I actually agree that there COULD be a story to be told, but the previous trailer material doesn't make it sound like that's the story they intend to tell. They COULD very easily make a Brexit allegory in the Star Trek universe by having a show revolve around the actual inner workings of the Federation and have it face both external conflicts and internal conflict about how to deal with it, causing some member worlds to consider leaving out of both justified concerns and irrational ones, stoked by opportunistic local leaders. The thing is, this would be a really ambitious show that needs a whole lot of care and good writing to avoid the pitfalls of hollow strawmen that invalidate your messaging, as well as embracing Star Trek's positive humanist attitude. This is a setting made up by people who act by their ideals and make the world a better place because of it. So they have to portray the evolution of the Federation through these hardships and have it end up a better version of itself.

HOWEVER, none of the material we got so far indicated that the Picard show intends to even remotely approach the topic of politics. So far it appears to be more and more like a rip-off of the Star Trek Renegades fanfilm. And in all the interviews I have seen the filmmakers emphasized that this one will be "different" and wholly disconnected from the previous installments of the franchise (mostly because up until a short while ago they had an odd copyright issue that forced them to avoid visuals of the previous shows). So I'm sorry, I can't see where you see the possibility of the Picard thing to be an ambitious and well-written show when in reality it is far more likely that politics will just be used as a backdrop of the setting that says "Everything sucks now, just in real life".

Also Alex Kurtzman. Everything this guy touches turns to soulless shit, that's why.

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Feel free to remind me, I won't view it as a "gotcha" though, that would mean its a failure of execution  and unfortunately that happens a lot. I'm just saying that I find the situation they are positing as one with opportunity which I am interested in.

And your view of whats soulless is likely different to mine, given that I enjoy Discovery. It does have its moments that I side eye, but I definitely don't think its view of the Universe is soulless.

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There should be a universe where all the crews from all trek shows get together and make one of those huge pancakes that takes a village to flip it.  Then they should all sit together on a really huge chair shaped like the enterprise saucer section and all of them would co-direct a one man play starring J.J. Abrams, telling him to do increasingly absurd things and he'd have to do it all.   

If this gloomy Picard federation was taking place in an alternate history, it'd be fun to see humanity reforging the thing, showing us again (or for the first time) how they got beyond their base instincts as a society.  Only this time it wouldn't be a second federation they'd rebuild, it'd be something equally impressive but different and new, another ideal for 21st century earth to strive for.  Like, a real sequel to Roddenberry's concept.   And show how humanity pulls itself out of the muck of animal behavior---while it's in the process of happening, again, after the federation falls apart.  That'd be nifty.  One of the toughest things to pen though.   Because if we knew the recipe, we'd already be trying it for real.

Edited by The Mother of The Others

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59 minutes ago, The Mother of The Others said:

There should be a universe where all the crews from all trek shows get together and make one of those huge pancakes that takes a village to flip it.  Then they should all sit together on a really huge chair shaped like the enterprise saucer section and all of them would co-direct a one man play starring J.J. Abrams, telling him to do increasingly absurd things and he'd have to do it all.   

If this gloomy Picard federation was taking place in an alternate history, it'd be fun to see humanity reforging the thing, showing us again (or for the first time) how they got beyond their base instincts as a society.  Only this time it wouldn't be a second federation they'd rebuild, it'd be something equally impressive but different and new, another ideal for 21st century earth to strive for.  Like, a real sequel to Roddenberry's concept.   And show how humanity pulls itself out of the muck of animal behavior---while it's in the process of happening, again, after the federation falls apart.  That'd be nifty.  One of the toughest things to pen though.   Because if we knew the recipe, we'd already be trying it for real.

That sounds more like Discovery's upcoming season than Picard. It's set far in the future and the federation has gone from 100+ worlds to less than a dozen. 

I also enjoy Discovery and maintain that for all its faults it has the best first season of any Star trek show. The second season got pretty ridiculous with it's plotting. ("we somehow can't destroy our own ship so we'd better fling it to the future and then never speak of it again!") but it's still fun and I like the few characters they've developed. 

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I wonder how confused I'll be about certain events. I've never been able to get into the Voyager series, and it's been years since I watched any TNG related stuff.

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I’ll need to watch this. I’ve dtill to watch Discovery; am planning tondo a chronological Trek watch, which means starting with Enterprise. I’ve a lot of other stuff to watxh and little time, so I’m liniting seasons 1 and 2 to a few episodes. 

After Discovery, I’ll finally get to watxh my Original series blu-rays. 

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12 hours ago, Corvinus said:

I wonder how confused I'll be about certain events. I've never been able to get into the Voyager series, and it's been years since I watched any TNG related stuff.

I’d be surprised if it relies on anything that they don’t explain fully in the series. Only things I can think are:

Voyager was stuck in the delta quadrant for seven years, and brought back an ex-Borg called Seven of Nine. 

Romulus was destroyed (pretty much the only thing that the JJ verse has to say about this prime universe).

Other than that, TNG was always very self contained. Picard was assimilated by the Borg once so he knows all about them, but that ‘arc’ was pretty much dealt with in the movie First Contact, where had an Ahab style fixation on defeating them and then got over it.

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1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

I’d be surprised if it relies on anything that they don’t explain fully in the series. Only things I can think are:

Voyager was stuck in the delta quadrant for seven years, and brought back an ex-Borg called Seven of Nine. 

Romulus was destroyed (pretty much the only thing that the JJ verse has to say about this prime universe).

Other than that, TNG was always very self contained. Picard was assimilated by the Borg once so he knows all about them, but that ‘arc’ was pretty much dealt with in the movie First Contact, where had an Ahab style fixation on defeating them and then got over it.

First Contact continues to be my favorite Trek movie.

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11 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

KHANNNN!!!!!!!!   

is second

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6 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

I’d be surprised if it relies on anything that they don’t explain fully in the series. Only things I can think are:

Voyager was stuck in the delta quadrant for seven years, and brought back an ex-Borg called Seven of Nine. 

Romulus was destroyed (pretty much the only thing that the JJ verse has to say about this prime universe).

Other than that, TNG was always very self contained. Picard was assimilated by the Borg once so he knows all about them, but that ‘arc’ was pretty much dealt with in the movie First Contact, where had an Ahab style fixation on defeating them and then got over it.

I would just add that Data died saving Picard's life near Romulus during Nemesis. It was implied his consciousness had been transferred to B4 a sort of Data prototype that wasn't as advanced. (The next movie probably would have had some kinda "The Search for Spock" plot where they restored him, but it never got made.)

Also once on TNG they caught a borg drone. Cut off from the hive mind it was childlike and they named him Hugh. They were going to use him to deliver a virus to the borg to destroy them, but ultimately decided it was genocide and just left Hugh for the borg to pick up. However his brief experience with individuality changed him, and he lead a faction of borg who left the collective to try to do something else. Then they ran into Data's evil brother and he lead them for a while but then was defeated so last we saw Hugh was leading these non-hive minded borg. 

Also Picard led the fleet that evacuated Romulus, but it was something of a disaster that lead to him retiring from Starfleet. But that especially should be covered by the new show as it's never been shown anywhere. 

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10 hours ago, Corvinus said:

First Contact continues to be my favorite Trek movie.

“Wrath of Khan” is the best of the Trek films.

Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison

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1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

“Wrath of Khan” is the best of the Trek films.

One of the best Sci-Fi movies over all actually.

Though I was watching it today and lamenting that the theme of aging and death was based on Kirk turning 50...

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The Dude-bros are out in force bemoaning the addition of “politics” to Star Trek on several Facebook threads.  All I can say is that they clearly never watched Star Trek if they believe it didn’t have politics and philosophy as a big part of its storytelling.

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15 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

The Dude-bros are out in force bemoaning the addition of “politics” to Star Trek on several Facebook threads.  All I can say is that they clearly never watched Star Trek if they believe it didn’t have politics and philosophy as a big part of its storytelling.

The episode of TNG with Riker falling in love with the “girl” from the race of single sex aliens was the first overt pro-homosexual show I remember seeing on network TV.

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