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UK Politics: The End of May


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9 hours ago, Raja said:

Is there nothing about the colonization of South Asia? 

I learned more about colonialism in my law degree than i ever did in History. I also did A-level geography which included a world development module and we learned about the impact of colonialism on development, but this was largely Africa. I barely recall learning anything about Asia in history...we might have briefly learned about the Silk Road? 

@Ormond, i’m surprised so few seemed to know anything of 1066, certainly when i was in secondary school we spent quite a long time on that. This was fairly early in secondary school i suppose, aged 11-12 but i’d have thought most would remember.

My experience, similar to Pebbles but 2007-12. Romans, Boudicca, 1066 (our school spent longer on this, seemingly), Henry VIII, some plague stuff, The Victorian Era, with the British Empire touted as something grand and great and not looked at critically at all. There was some local history iirc where we looked at local historical figures. Gunpowder plot. A bit of WWI.

i didnt take History as an option but i believe it was pretty much all WWII at my school

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I did History for A Level from 1983-85, , essentially the Industrial Revolution,  Britain and Europe from 1815 to 1848, and Tudor England.  I wouldn't say that my course glossed over the nastier aspects of those periods.

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I went to a British International School for my Secondary and early HS and we had History class, but it was all William the Conqueror, Renaissance, some world history and then A whole lot of WWI, League of Nations, Treaty of Versailles, etc. etc. and then some Nazi Germany and WW2. For some reason, we skipped the Victorian and Colonial Era. 

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Somewhat curiously, the final year of high-school History here is literally just England 1558-1660 (so Elizabeth I, the early Stuarts, Cromwell and friends, and the Restoration. They really should extend that out to 1688, what with the parliamentary sovereignty thing being the entire justification for such concentration).

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Channeling the 4 Yorkshire men: You were lucky (vis-a-vis education on British History). We got basically no NZ history taught to us at school except our involvement in the Boer War, WWI and WWII, which is all largely British perspective anyway. NZ history is very short, but still very impactful for us.

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4 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Channeling the 4 Yorkshire men: You were lucky (vis-a-vis education on British History). We got basically no NZ history taught to us at school except our involvement in the Boer War, WWI and WWII, which is all largely British perspective anyway. NZ history is very short, but still very impactful for us.

IIRC, the only NZ History we did in high-school History was New Zealand Foreign Policy 1945-1985 (plus Social Studies on the Treaty of Waitangi). The rest was stuff like the origins of WWI and WWII, Ireland 1880-1920, Israel and Palestine 1914-1967, China 1911-1949, and Stalin's Russia.

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3 hours ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

Looking at the numbers, it seems that this has less to do with Labour, and more to do with the Conservative candidate retaining just enough Leave voters to deny the Brexit Party the win.

Objectively, the Conservative performance was appalling (their vote share was down 24%).  But, it was not as appalling as I thought it would be (I thought it their vote share would be more like 10% than 22%, which would have given TBP an easy win.  Plainly, there are a lot of people who will give their votes to TBP at EU election level, but stick with the Conservatives at Parliamentary level.

Overall, the changes in vote shares (Con -24%, Lab-17%, TBP +28%, Lib Dems +9%) are very much in line with current opinion polls.

Just as a bit of fun, if you put the shifts into Electoral Calculus, you get TBP 332, Lab 206, Lib Dem 30, SNP 56, Con 7.

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3 hours ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

Looking at the numbers, it seems that this has less to do with Labour, and more to do with the Conservative candidate retaining just enough Leave voters to deny the Brexit Party the win.

Was it though?

Surely the story here is about those fabled Labour Leave voters. If they had been prepared to defect to nu-UKIP in the same numbers as the Tories did, Labour would have lost. But they were not. That's at least as valid a narrative as the one centring the Conservative voters who stuck with their party.

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1 hour ago, mormont said:

Was it though?

Surely the story here is about those fabled Labour Leave voters. If they had been prepared to defect to nu-UKIP in the same numbers as the Tories did, Labour would have lost. But they were not. That's at least as valid a narrative as the one centring the Conservative voters who stuck with their party.

Labour certainly have bragging rights.  Their ground operation in this most marginal of seats must have been excellent.  The Tories are probably well organised on the ground here as well.  That said, they still lost 41% between them.  

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5 hours ago, mormont said:

Surely the story here is about those fabled Labour Leave voters. If they had been prepared to defect to nu-UKIP in the same numbers as the Tories did, Labour would have lost. But they were not. That's at least as valid a narrative as the one centring the Conservative voters who stuck with their party.

Are you sure that'S the story, or the story we should look at?

I think the more important story is not that NUKIP missed out on a seat (narrowly), or how Tory voters defected to them - I mean, of course they did. The story is, how will this result play out with Labour party policy. If Labours' lesson from that by election is, our current strategy works, let's stick with the dithereing of concrete fudging, or constructive ambivalence. If that's the takeaway for Corbyn and the current Labour leadership, then this was a costly seat.

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2 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Are you sure that'S the story, or the story we should look at?

I think the more important story is not that NUKIP missed out on a seat (narrowly), or how Tory voters defected to them - I mean, of course they did. The story is, how will this result play out with Labour party policy. If Labours' lesson from that by election is, our current strategy works, let's stick with the dithereing of concrete fudging, or constructive ambivalence. If that's the takeaway for Corbyn and the current Labour leadership, then this was a costly seat.

Corbyn has bragging rights within Labour, over this.

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And of course he did it.

At this point I am not even blaming Corbyn. He is an idiot, that can't be helped. I am blaming the momentun morons, that fudge the issue at the last Labour conference in order to not upset the dear leader. And also the spinless Labour members that allowed it, hello Keir.

Part of me wonders in a battle of stupid, who would win. Esther McVey or Rebecca Long-Bailey.

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2 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

And of course he did it.

At this point I am not even blaming Corbyn. He is an idiot, that can't be helped. I am blaming the momentun morons, that fudge the issue at the last Labour conference in order to not upset the dear leader. And also the spinless Labour members that allowed it, hello Keir.

Part of me wonders in a battle of stupid, who would win. Esther McVey or Rebecca Long-Bailey.

Why is he still the leader? Obviously this is coming from an outsider, but I swear I only hear negative things said about him, regardless of the speaker's political point of view. Is it much like the position May was in, having a job nobody wants?

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