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UK Politics: The End of May


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2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

which is basically where you argument begins and ends because there is no conversation to be had when you come out with things like that.

Um no, argument doesn’t end because one side states the facts of racism, the argument end because the racist side throws a fit when the word “racist” is used and starts yelling that the first side “shut the argument down.” This is fundamentally a tautology.

the argument can resume when the racist side is ready and willing to acknowledge the fact of their racism.

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26 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

Um no, argument doesn’t end because one side states the facts of racism, the argument end because the racist side throws a fit when the word “racist” is used and starts yelling that the first side “shut the argument down.” This is fundamentally a tautology.

the argument can resume when the racist side is ready and willing to acknowledge the fact of their racism.

What “facts” are these?

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We literally talked about the racist bells in NUKIP (aka the Brexit party) in the previous UK politics thread.

I am too lazy to copy and paste the same links again. But convincing you that your Brexit buddies are to no small part a bunch of racist cunts is like talking a thick brick wall.

A Brexit party vote was mainly a vote for racists by racists. You don't like it? Tough luck.

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8 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

We literally talked about the racist bells in NUKIP (aka the Brexit party) in the previous UK politics thread.

I am too lazy to copy and paste the same links again. But convincing you that your Brexit buddies are to no small part a bunch of racist cunts is like talking a thick brick wall.

A Brexit party vote was mainly a vote for racists by racists. You don't like it? Tough luck.

I’d say much of what you posted was far from proof of anything.

But let’s say I concede Farage was a racist ( I’m not but let’s just imagine) and he had racists in his party. The question then is why are people who are not racists put into a position where they have to vote for the Brexit Party or UKIP

If no other party is willing to deal with the problems of EU membership and immigration , and any concerns about these things are dismissed as purely racist, then those voters are going to turn to the only people willing to listen. 

You see the same pattern all across Europe. 

If the mainstream parties are not willing to deliver Brexit or put controls on rapid immigration then where do voters turn?

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4 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said:

I'm not racist, I just hate those filthy fucking immigrants and wish they'd stay in their own countries. Is that too much to ask?

When a non-racist party comes along with those sensibilities, I'll happily vote for them.

But really they’re fighting to preserve Britain’s ‘precious’ culture of drinking European beer, eating indian/italian etc food, wearing clothes made in the 3rd world, and watching American TV.

 

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27 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said:

I'm not racist, I just hate those filthy fucking immigrants and wish they'd stay in their own countries. Is that too much to ask?

When a non-racist party comes along with those sensibilities, I'll happily vote for them.

Oh and we can't actually do anything to see to the creation of such a party, or to move a current party in that direction, you see we "have" to vote to the racist party.

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2 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said:

Right. We're making you hate immigrants even more than you already do by making fun of you for thinking that hating immigrants isn't racist.

It goes like this:

Brexiter: ’ I think maybe there might be a little too much immigration happening in this country, as we are having unprecedentedly huge numbers arriving and I’m concerned with the rate of change. What can we do about it’

Remainer: ‘ Waaaah you disgusting racist!! You scumbag Nazi!!’

Brexiter: ‘ umm no it’s just that the levels of change are too fast, I don’t have a problem with immigration but need to have controls’

Remainer: ‘ Nazi!!’ Well you can’t control immigration, there is literally nothing you can do.. so shut the hell up about it! Everything is global now!

Remainer ‘ Oh and by the way, you don’t have a culture , it’s worthless.. what is it eating chips?? Nazi!!’ Everyone elses culture is brilliant but yours is shit and doesn’t even exist.. cos you’re just like.. a Nazi!!’

You might see how that might turn people off.  Governments and the media weren’t listening to genuine concerns about immigration as well as a lack of sovereignty and so voters end up having to turn to whoever is going to listen. 

Reducing anyone’s genuine concerns about immigration to ‘oh they must be racists’ doesn’t help anyone. I just find it ironic that so many in here keep trotting out the same ignorant tropes 3 years after the vote

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3 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

 

Reducing anyone’s genuine concerns about immigration to ‘oh they must be racists’ doesn’t help anyone. I just find it ironic that so many in here keep trotting out the same ignorant tropes 3 years after the vote



As long as people keep voting for racists, we'll keep trotting them out. You can claim that you're not racist and your complaints are valid all you like, but if your only option is to ally with racists or you can't get it done you have to wonder about (1) your priorities and (2) the validity of your concerns in the first place if the majority of non-racist educated opinion is that we're fine.


What does 'rate of change' even mean in this context?

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2 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said:

Things I've learned today: Abusing brown people in the streets and telling them to fuck off back to where they came from isn't racist behaviour, it's 'showing concern'.

There are already immigration controls.

Sigh :bang:

Did you miss the massive  numbers of Eastern European’s who arrived in the last decade?

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1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Sigh :bang:

Did you miss the massive  numbers of Eastern European’s who arrived in the last decade?

It's all been downhill since Vortigern let all those Saxons in, hasn't it?

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16 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

They aren’t. The speed at which they arrived was though. Too much too fast makes integration much harder:

How so?

still waiting for you to tell us all about exactly what British culture is and how the nasty immigrants are killing it. I only asked you to clarify this a year or two ago in one of the Brit politics threads.

When can i expect your response?

 

Bueller?

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19 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

They aren’t. The speed at which they arrived was though. Too much too fast makes integration much harder:

 

 

So is integration the problem or is it changing too fast? Coz those two things while not entirely incompatible are almost opposites- if they're not intergrating with the culture they're not changing it.

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30 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

 

 

So is integration the problem or is it changing too fast? Coz those two things while not entirely incompatible are almost opposites- if they're not intergrating with the culture they're not changing it.

No they aren't entirely incompatible but clearly if you have a lot of immigration in an area that it becomes less about integrating into a native community than it does about changing the area itself. I don't think it's unreasonable for any native community to be concerned about a rapid change, that would apply to any population on the planet if you added a lot more people to it from another area. Also nobody wants to see the ghettoisation that often occurs when it happens very fast, and there are plenty of examples of that. 

32 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

How so?

still waiting for you to tell us all about exactly what British culture is and how the nasty immigrants are killing it. I only asked you to clarify this a year or two ago in one of the Brit politics threads.

When can i expect your response?

 

Bueller?

Your post doesn't really even deserve a response. Would you ask what French culture was? Italian? Swedish? African? Indian? Romanian? Polish?I mean I could go on. Clearly every area and community has its traditions and cultures that it cherishs and feels proud and that is pretty normal. If you tell people that their culture is either worthless or doesn't even exist and then also tell them that they need to simply accept the rapid changes to their communities and areas then don't be surprised if people get annoyed and push back. 

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19 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

No they aren't entirely incompatible but clearly if you have a lot of immigration in an area that it becomes less about integrating into a native community than it does about changing the area itself. I don't think it's unreasonable for any native community to be concerned about a rapid change, that would apply to any population on the planet if you added a lot more people to it from another area. Also nobody wants to see the ghettoisation that often occurs when it happens very fast, and there are plenty of examples of that. 

Your post doesn't really even deserve a response. Would you ask what French culture was? Italian? Swedish? African? Indian? Romanian? Polish?I mean I could go on. Clearly every area and community has its traditions and cultures that it cherishs and feels proud and that is pretty normal. If you tell people that their culture is either worthless or doesn't even exist and then also tell them that they need to simply accept the rapid changes to their communities and areas then don't be surprised if people get annoyed and push back. 

So that’s a no, then? You can’t tell us what exactly British culture is. Got it.

For info, culture is fluid. Brotish culture (and values) 100 years ago is alien to what it is now. We no longer jail gay people, for example.

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5 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

So that’s a no, then? You can’t tell us what exactly British culture is. Got it.

For info, culture is fluid. Brotish culture (and values) 100 years ago is alien to what it is now. We no longer jail gay people, for example.

So nobodies culture or traditions have any value?

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6 hours ago, Heartofice said:

What % of anything is racist? How would you ever answer such a question? 

You seem to think this was a response that deflected the question, but it's actually very revealing. The answer is, quite clearly, 'more than I'm comfortable talking about'. If it weren't, you'd give a straight answer.

You can say what you like about the errors of those who accuse Brexiteers of racism. But if you keep ducking the issue when asked about it yourself, well, to coin a phrase:

5 hours ago, Heartofice said:

You're not helping yourself.

I would note, in passing, something I've said before - that it's not necessary for someone to be consciously racist to actually be racist. Most Brexit party voters are not consciously racist.

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