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Uilliam

Cersei's character butchered

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She was one of the primary antagonists. She had been humiliated by the people of kings landing and had grown to hate them...and yet they get Dany to go on a lunatic rampage?

They pretty much reduced Cersei to a frail and weak woman, the sympathetic victim of Danaerys' siege. Why did they reverse the roles of the 'mad Queen' when the show spent 8 seasons setting up Cersei as madly power hungry and a little bit unhinged?  Up until The Bells, they had portrayed her as one of the shows most vindictive villains. The writers gave her even more short shrift than Danaerys.

and don't get me started on the fact that she died by brick!

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Posted (edited)

I always thought Cersei's cold exterior was just a poker face she put on to hide her insecurity and shame. Moreover, in the later episodes, she played the game of thrones as well as anyone could in her situation by ambushing Rhaegal, and by having the iron fleet, scorpions and golden company in position while Dany's forces were worn down by Night King. To see all that Tywin style planning go up literally in smoke in one morning took away her anchor. In her mind, Tywin's way of gold, cunning and disciplined armies has never failed, but now it has in the most shocking manner. Moreover, she was probably counting on igniting the wildfire if the allied armies get to close to the red keep, but Dany accidentally pre-empted that by setting it all aflame. 

Dany is the mother of dragons while Cersei is the mother of human beings. So the former is always gonna be crueler and the latter would always have a human side (i.e. the crying). 

Moreover, I think Cersei and Jaime's rubble filled end was perfect poetic justice. They were Tywin's hope and dreams, and they went out the same way the Reynes (blocked exit alluding to Tywin's blocking the entrance of Castamere ) and Tarbecks (collapsed ceiling just like what killed Tion and Ellyn) did. The fact that the Rains of Castamere plays as they die is a big hint. And with the Red Keep now roofless and Casterly going to Tyrion, the rains now weep over the House Lannister Tywin tried to build.

Also, even if jaime and cersei did manage to get to Pentos in that tiny rowboat, how would they have lived. Perhaps Tyrion would send money to them eventually, but if Jaime ended up having to sell that golden hand, it would be a perfect mirror image of Viserys selling his mother's crown to keep Dany fed when they were wandering Essos.

Edited by Br16

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Posted (edited)
On 5/31/2019 at 3:20 PM, Br16 said:

I always thought Cersei's cold exterior was just a poker face she put on to hide her insecurity and shame. Moreover, in the later episodes, she played the game of thrones as well as anyone could in her situation by ambushing Rhaegal, and by having the iron fleet, scorpions and golden company in position while Dany's forces were worn down by Night King. To see all that Tywin style planning go up literally in smoke in one morning took away her anchor. In her mind, Tywin's way of gold, cunning and disciplined armies has never failed, but now it has in the most shocking manner. Moreover, she was probably counting on igniting the wildfire if the allied armies get to close to the red keep, but Dany accidentally pre-empted that by setting it all aflame. 

Dany is the mother of dragons while Cersei is the mother of human beings. So the former is always gonna be crueler and the latter would always have a human side (i.e. the crying). 

Moreover, I think Cersei and Jaime's rubble filled end was perfect poetic justice. They were Tywin's hope and dreams, and they went out the same way the Reynes (blocked exit alluding to Tywin's blocking the entrance of Castamere ) and Tarbecks (collapsed ceiling just like what killed Tion and Ellyn) did. The fact that the Rains of Castamere plays as they die is a big hint. And with the Red Keep now roofless and Casterly going to Tyrion, the rains now weep over the House Lannister Tywin tried to build.

Also, even if jaime and cersei did manage to get to Pentos in that tiny rowboat, how would they have lived. Perhaps Tyrion would send money to them eventually, but if Jaime ended up having to sell that golden hand, it would be a perfect mirror image of Viserys selling his mother's crown to keep Dany fed when they were wandering Essos.

I disagree with you about Cersei's character, at least in the books. Maybe the show softened her a little, like the character you describe, but I personally see it as a cop out. I mean, why in the hell was she weeping in the red keep insisting it wouldn't fall, when in 'Blackwater' she basically accepted it's fall would be inevitable...a blatant contradiction in character. The writers robbed her of her ferocious strength after season 6.

I do like your suggested ending though. Watching Jaime and Cersei' struggling to make ends meet in Essos like the beggar king and Danaerys in their childhood would make perfect karmic retribution! Hell, you could make a whole seasons worth of subplot out of it.

Edited by Uilliam

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2 minutes ago, Uilliam said:

I disagree with you about Cersei's character, at least in the books. Maybe the show softened her a little, like the character you describe, but I personally see it as a cop out. I mean, why in the hell was she weeping in the red keep insisting it wouldn't fall, when in 'Blackwater' she basically accepted it's fall would be inevitable...a blatant contradiction in character. The writers robbed her of her ferocious strength after season 6.

I do like your suggested ending though. Watching Jaime and Cersei' struggling to make ends meet in Essos like the beggar king and Danaerys in their childhood would make perfect karmic retribution!

You have a good point, I totally forgot about her cavalier attitude during blackwater and the early seasons. Maybe not having a jug of wine (pregnancy alcohol ban?) takes away her bravado. 

Also, I agree that it would be perfect karmic retribution, especially as Jaime can't even be a sellsword with only one hand, and they've got a kid coming.

 

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On 5/24/2019 at 5:53 PM, Uilliam said:

She was one of the primary antagonists. She had been humiliated by the people of kings landing and had grown to hate them...and yet they get Dany to go on a lunatic rampage?

They pretty much reduced Cersei to a frail and weak woman, the sympathetic victim of Danaerys' siege. Why did they reverse the roles of the 'mad Queen' when the show spent 8 seasons setting up Cersei as madly power hungry and a little bit unhinged?  Up until The Bells, they had portrayed her as one of the shows most vindictive villains. The writers gave her even more short shrift than Danaerys.

and don't get me started on the fact that she died by brick!

Problem, I think, is that by that point they had ran out of sympathetic antagonists. In earlier seasons you have Tyrion, one could also argue Stannis, mayhaps Tywin, also Kevan, and some others (and that is not counting figureheads such as Tommen); but by this point, all of them had been either killed or had switched sides. So in order to force that "gray and grey" image that Game of Thrones was known as, they had to make Cersei more sympathetic.

The moment they removed Young Griff from the script, they had to butcher Cersei's character. That was unavoidable.

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100% agree with you. I would have preferred to see a batshit insane Daenerys, and an equally batshit insane Cersei. 

 

They also made it unclear as to whether she was going to set off that wildfire for Jons troops or not. I wish that was cleared up by some quick dialogue she would share with Qyburn. 

Either way, I would have had her use the wildfire right after the Scorpions were destroyed, which would destroy a good portion of both her and Dany’s armies. This would then trigger Dany, rather than a bunch of stupid bells.  

On 5/31/2019 at 4:20 PM, Br16 said:

I always thought Cersei's cold exterior was just a poker face she put on to hide her insecurity and shame. Moreover, in the later episodes, she played the game of thrones as well as anyone could in her situation by ambushing Rhaegal, and by having the iron fleet, scorpions and golden company in position while Dany's forces were worn down by Night King. To see all that Tywin style planning go up literally in smoke in one morning took away her anchor. In her mind, Tywin's way of gold, cunning and disciplined armies has never failed, but now it has in the most shocking manner. Moreover, she was probably counting on igniting the wildfire if the allied armies get to close to the red keep, but Dany accidentally pre-empted that by setting it all aflame. 

Dany is the mother of dragons while Cersei is the mother of human beings. So the former is always gonna be crueler and the latter would always have a human side (i.e. the crying). 

Moreover, I think Cersei and Jaime's rubble filled end was perfect poetic justice. They were Tywin's hope and dreams, and they went out the same way the Reynes (blocked exit alluding to Tywin's blocking the entrance of Castamere ) and Tarbecks (collapsed ceiling just like what killed Tion and Ellyn) did. The fact that the Rains of Castamere plays as they die is a big hint. And with the Red Keep now roofless and Casterly going to Tyrion, the rains now weep over the House Lannister Tywin tried to build.

Also, even if jaime and cersei did manage to get to Pentos in that tiny rowboat, how would they have lived. Perhaps Tyrion would send money to them eventually, but if Jaime ended up having to sell that golden hand, it would be a perfect mirror image of Viserys selling his mother's crown to keep Dany fed when they were wandering Essos.

The writers literally stated that Cersei was supposed to be irredeemable after Tommens death. 

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17 hours ago, Kaguya said:

100% agree with you. I would have preferred to see a batshit insane Daenerys, and an equally batshit insane Cersei. 

 

They also made it unclear as to whether she was going to set off that wildfire for Jons troops or not. I wish that was cleared up by some quick dialogue she would share with Qyburn. 

Either way, I would have had her use the wildfire right after the Scorpions were destroyed, which would destroy a good portion of both her and Dany’s armies. This would then trigger Dany, rather than a bunch of stupid bells.  

The writers literally stated that Cersei was supposed to be irredeemable after Tommens death. 

I agree with the clarification about the wildfire, it seems like a trap since all of it is located nearer to the Red Keep side of the city. 

Also, I agree that she is irredeemable, but the way she carries things out (including the new style dress, dark color KG armor) just feels like she was trying too hard to appear villainous. It feels like the overcompensation of someone with inferiority complex. 

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Posted (edited)

Oh I would love to get you started on how she "died by brick". It's one of the biggest things that bothered me about the end of the series next to the way Dany ended up. They built us up to despise and crave the death of this character the entire series. She could have been killed by Arya or Tyrion or Jon or Jaime or burned and eaten by Drogon at the command of Dany. Yes all those ways might have been slightly expected or predictable but they would have been satisfying! Hell I would rather that Cersei had survived and won over what they ended up doing!

Edited by Olorin81

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