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Once Upon A Time In Hollywood (spoilers)

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5 minutes ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

Agreed on all accounts. Unfortunately, being offended is easy work for a lot of people these days--and business is a boomin'.

Yes how dare the daughter of a guy being portrayed in a movie is bothered by the way they portrayed her father

She had to go way out of her way to...uh (reads notes) be offended by someone disparaging how her dead father actually was in real life and make him a butt of a joke

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9 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Yes how dare the daughter of a guy being portrayed in a movie is bothered by the way they portrayed her father

She had to go way out of her way to...uh (reads notes) be offended by someone disparaging how her dead father actually was in real life and make him a butt of a joke

I'm pretty sure literally no one in this thread has specifically criticized Lee's daughter nor raised objections to her being offended.  Fairly obvious everyone is talking about, ya know, the internet using her to whine about it.  And indeed, you continue to use her as a crutch rather than explain why you have a problem with it.  Did you consult with Ms. Lee before using her comments as pretty much the only reasoning for continuing to complain about a two-minute scene (that btw is a flashback and could be interpreted in myriad ways)?  No?  I'm offended!

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2 hours ago, DMC said:

I'm pretty sure literally no one in this thread has specifically criticized Lee's daughter nor raised objections to her being offended. 

They kind of totally did. In particular they said that they sought her out to get outrage, and dismissed entirely that she might be, ya know, actually pissed off. 

2 hours ago, DMC said:

And indeed, you continue to use her as a crutch rather than explain why you have a problem with it. 

I have a problem with it when people of color are marginalized in order to make white people look better. Especially when they're doing it by making a fictional character prevail over an actual real human being. This was literally Bruce Lee's actual life as well - constantly being marginalized and belittled by white producers and directors and given second fiddle or simply not given the roles that they fought to play. Lee's portrayal in the movie is a microcosm of what Lee had to fight for in life, except in the movie they're explicitly justifying the behavior they're doing. 

Once again, you can enjoy something AND notice where it's problematic. The two things are not in diametrical opposition. 

2 hours ago, DMC said:

Did you consult with Ms. Lee before using her comments as pretty much the only reasoning for continuing to complain about a two-minute scene (that btw is a flashback and could be interpreted in myriad ways)?  No?  I'm offended!

What way do you think Tarantino intended it to be interpreted? Is there any particular in-movie indication that Pitt's character is wholly unreliable as a narrator or that he's meant to be seen as anything other than a hero - especially given the ending? 

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1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

they said that they sought her out to get outrage, and dismissed entirely that she might be, ya know, actually pissed off. 

Who did?  I'm lazy and not gonna re-read this entire thread, so you'll have to cite for that one.  Even if, yes, obviously I agree that's wrong.

ETA:  Ok, yeah, forgot there was the "nah" guy.  But that was it.  No one recently has mentioned her at all.

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

I have a problem with it when people of color are marginalized in order to make white people look better. Especially when they're doing it by making a fictional character prevail over an actual real human being. This was literally Bruce Lee's actual life as well - constantly being marginalized and belittled by white producers and directors and given second fiddle or simply not given the roles that they fought to play. Lee's portrayal in the movie is a microcosm of what Lee had to fight for in life, except in the movie they're explicitly justifying the behavior they're doing. 

I agree in general about the marginalization factor, but it was one scene.  If you're uncomfortable with it, fine, but I don't see a reason to go on the internet and incessantly complain about it.  As for the bolded, I think the caricature was entirely intentional - as in that's what Tarantino was going for.  Further, I think admonishing a guy that has featured both women and people of color (or both) very frequently in his CV is entirely unfair.  It's almost like - although certainly not the same - people complaining about Joss Whedon's depiction of women because he cheated on his wife.

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

Is there any particular in-movie indication that Pitt's character is wholly unreliable as a narrator or that he's meant to be seen as anything other than a hero - especially given the ending? 

Yes.  There's the plain suggestion that he may have killed his wife.  And in the flashback-within-a-flashback, the viewer gets no confirmation on the subject.  In fact that bit scene clearly seems to be Pitt's memory of his wife bitching at him on a boat.  What happened next?  Who knows.  Even without that, all of the Pitt flashback scenes could be interpreted as him viewing his past the way he wanted it to be played out, rather than how it "actually" was.

Edited by DMC

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38 minutes ago, DMC said:

I agree in general about the marginalization factor, but it was one scene.  If you're uncomfortable with it, fine, but I don't see a reason to go on the internet and incessantly complain about it. 

I was responding to the people who said that you had to go out of your way to find something to be offended about. You really don't, and that statement shows a whole lot of privilege. I personally don't see a need to go on the internet and say 'I don't see how anyone could complain about it' either. 

 

38 minutes ago, DMC said:

As for the bolded, I think the caricature was entirely intentional - as in that's what Tarantino was going for.  Further, I think admonishing a guy that has featured both women and people of color (or both) very frequently in his CV is entirely unfair. 

I think you can also admonish Tarantino's portrayal of Lee and give credit to him for doing well in other places (though that is REALLY debatable). The notion that because I'm criticizing him in one place means he is entirely hideous is obvious strawman bullshit. You don't get a pass on shitty behavior because you did well other times. It might not make you a racist or a bigot or whatever, but it doesn't excuse the shitty behavior. 

38 minutes ago, DMC said:

It's almost like - although certainly not the same - people complaining about Joss Whedon's depiction of women because he cheated on his wife. 

I think you can easily criticize Joss's portrayal of women without talking about his wife even once. I also frankly don't understand that comparison at all. If someone had said how Tarantino is horrible and this is just an example of it, sure. But that's not the case here. 

38 minutes ago, DMC said:

Yes.  There's the plain suggestion that he may have killed his wife.  And in the flashback-within-a-flashback, the viewer gets no confirmation on the subject.  In fact that bit scene clearly seems to be Pitt's memory of his wife bitching at him on a boat.  What happened next?  Who knows.  Even without that, all of the Pitt flashback scenes could be interpreted as him viewing his past the way he wanted it to be played out, rather than how it "actually" was.

But that wasn't the question. Is there anything in the movie that makes you think that Pitt isn't the actual hero - even with the suggestion that he killed his wife? Especially given the conclusion and how he dispatches the obviously Evil, Bad, Naughty minions of Manson - I don't think there's anything that implies he's supposed to be considered particularly anything other than someone to root for. He might be morally grey, but he's definitely the hero here, and he's getting the hero cut. 

I also don't think that Tarantino makes any observation that his memory is unreliable - again, especially given the grisly conclusion. If anything, that shows he's basically as bad-ass as he makes himself out to be. 

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1 minute ago, Kalbear said:

You really don't, and that statement shows a whole lot of privilege.

:rolleyes:  This is why Democrats can't get a majority in the Senate.

2 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

The notion that because I'm criticizing him in one place means he is entirely hideous is obvious strawman bullshit.

Fuck no it's not a strawman, it's simply providing context.  I'm saying if you have a problem with it, fine, but stop whining about it.  And you keep on whining about with little to no provocation.

5 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

If someone had said how Tarantino is horrible and this is just an example of it, sure. But that's not the case here. 

Fair enough - you have not said that.  That was more of a response to the internet reaction.

6 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Is there anything in the movie that makes you think that Pitt isn't the actual hero - even with the suggestion that he killed his wife?

I think the suggestion that he killed his wife is meant for you to question him as the hero, yes.  In fact I think that's a very important aspect of the narrative.

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Looks like maybe Once Upon A Time in Hollywood will be turned into a Netflix miniseries with additional footage not seen in the theatrical version. Apparently, Tarantino did the same thing with Netflix's version of The Hateful 8 which I had no idea he had done. I thought Hateful 8 was too long (and fell asleep in the middle of it due to having watched it very late at night and after several drinks) but I'm a little intrigued about what new content was included and if 4 50 minute shows might not be a more entertaining experience from the singular cinematic version.

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/09/tarantino-plans-extended-once-upon-a-time-in-hollywood-netflix-miniseries-1202162622/

 

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43 minutes ago, WarGalley said:

Looks like maybe Once Upon A Time in Hollywood will be turned into a Netflix miniseries with additional footage not seen in the theatrical version. Apparently, Tarantino did the same thing with Netflix's version of The Hateful 8 which I had no idea he had done. I thought Hateful 8 was too long (and fell asleep in the middle of it due to having watched it very late at night and after several drinks) but I'm a little intrigued about what new content was included and if 4 50 minute shows might not be a more entertaining experience from the singular cinematic version.

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/09/tarantino-plans-extended-once-upon-a-time-in-hollywood-netflix-miniseries-1202162622/

 

I’m down. And thank you for saving this thread.

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I heard that Bruce Lee's death was a hoax and he"s secretly refereeing martial arts tournaments to this day.

This is allegedly Bruce reffing a contest- 

 

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On 9/5/2019 at 11:44 PM, WarGalley said:

Looks like maybe Once Upon A Time in Hollywood will be turned into a Netflix miniseries with additional footage not seen in the theatrical version. Apparently, Tarantino did the same thing with Netflix's version of The Hateful 8 which I had no idea he had done. I thought Hateful 8 was too long (and fell asleep in the middle of it due to having watched it very late at night and after several drinks) but I'm a little intrigued about what new content was included and if 4 50 minute shows might not be a more entertaining experience from the singular cinematic version.

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/09/tarantino-plans-extended-once-upon-a-time-in-hollywood-netflix-miniseries-1202162622/

 

I'd see it. I heard ( but have not seen) that the Hateful 8 Netflix version wouldn't differ much at all from the film, and hopefully that would really be different here with signficiant additional footage.

 

I enjoyed this film btw. Mainly because of Pitt who was so excellent in it, and Di Caprio too. I wish there had been more stuff in it like the ending seuqence though, it felt "mildly entratining but slow" for too much of the film. But, it was definitely intriguing. I thought more should have been doine with Tate's characters and really kept hoping we would actually see Manson again later in the film,

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On 7/26/2019 at 8:00 PM, Nictarion said:

I personally loved it. Pitt and Leo were both great, and I’d be hard pressed to say who gave the better performance. Although everyone takes a backseat to Brandy the pit bull! 

Bitch, and I mean that literally, couldn't even perform her own stunts.  And this is a dog who is supposed to be loyal to a STUNTMAN. (It is my understanding that she just wasn't aggressive enough for the finale and they had to double her with a male dog).

The best performances were by Julia Butters and Andie MacDowell's look-alike daughter.

But I love the film.

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22 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

It is my understanding that she just wasn't aggressive enough for the finale and they had to double her with a male dog

I read that too.  Also, Pitt put baby food on his neck to get the dog to lick it, and he bonded with all three of the dogs that played Brandy.  

I was surprised when I found out Margaret Qualley was MacDowell's daughter, but then I went to google images and was look "oh shit, yeah."  Agree she was impressive.

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2 hours ago, DMC said:

I was surprised when I found out Margaret Qualley was MacDowell's daughter, but then I went to google images and was look "oh shit, yeah."  Agree she was impressive.

The minute I read it, it registered with me as, "duh".  The resemblance is very strong.  I wondered how I'd missed it in real-time.

On the Bruce Lee thing, I agree that it marginalizes someone who was marginalized in real life (see: Carradine, David).   And serves no real plot purpose.  A bit of punching down, IMO.

PS:  Margot Robbie in a little white miniskirt and boots is a flawless thing.
 

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3 hours ago, Bronn Stone said:

Bitch, and I mean that literally, couldn't even perform her own stunts.  And this is a dog who is supposed to be loyal to a STUNTMAN. (It is my understanding that she just wasn't aggressive enough for the finale and they had to double her with a male dog).

The best performances were by Julia Butters and Andie MacDowell's look-alike daughter.

But I love the film.

 

2 hours ago, DMC said:

I read that too.  Also, Pitt put baby food on his neck to get the dog to lick it, and he bonded with all three of the dogs that played Brandy.  

I was surprised when I found out Margaret Qualley was MacDowell's daughter, but then I went to google images and was look "oh shit, yeah."  Agree she was impressive.

If you want to see more of her, and you haven’t already, do yourselves a favor and watch The Leftovers. Fantastic show. 

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33 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

 

If you want to see more of her, and you haven’t already, do yourselves a favor and watch The Leftovers. Fantastic show. 

Or the watch The Nice Guys, a fantastic movie.

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9 minutes ago, Leofric said:

Or the watch The Nice Guys, a fantastic movie.

It is. I almost mentioned it as well, but she’s featured a little more prominently in The Leftovers. 

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On 9/8/2019 at 4:24 AM, Martini Sigil said:

I am pretty sure that Bruce Lee's reputation and legacy will survive a joke made at his expense... #LightenUpFrancis 

Pretty much. And the man is a public figure. It is okay to make a joke about him. And the whole thing was actually fun (at at least in my mind, because I didn't expect that). Bruce Lee was an actor, not some super man, and he behaves like a movie star in the film. It would be actually surprising if he were some kind of modest, humble fellow. Nine out of ten people making a living in the industry have large egos.

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