Jon is a hypocrite

[NymeriaWarriorQueen]

33 minutes ago, Kaapstad said:

He is already viewed as dishonourable by those who survived Kings Landing. From their view point, he assisted Dany in her genocide and rapes and he made the Northmen culpable to that. At this point, him killing her and sneaking off means nothing in the grand scheme of things. His reputation is already damaged beyond repair. There is no dishonour in sneaking away as did Dany surrender after she killed so many innocents? On the contrary she started going on about more liberation. Nothing wrong to sneak away after killing such a person. 

Not to mention the person to whom he surrenders is  not at all honourable. He killed unarmed soldiers because his girlfriend died. 

If the people of King’s Landing thinking he is dishonorable solely because he assisted Dany during the siege then it would seem they would rebel against the new king, his Hand, and council members because they are culpable too. For all we know, they could be glad he betrayed and killed her after she burnt up their loved ones.. Personally, Greyworm and everyone involved aren’t smelling sweet as a rose.  Jon was the only one to sacrifice himself for the greater good (no world wide conquering with fire and blood) and then accepting the consequences of his choice. Tyrion managed to talk his way out of an unpleasant fate as is typical of him.  Bran could pardon Jon too if he foresees  it was OK in the future.

[Kaapstad]

14 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

To others yes. But Jon surrendered because he believed it was the right thing. He probably wanted to be able to look at himself in the mirror.

Surrendering to the very persons who were responsible for the slaughter of Kings Landing is honourable? If anything, killing the whole lot of them is. Grey Worm got away scot free for crimes. If Jon is all about honour then he should see it to it that they are punished along with him. But they run away. 

One more thing. The last scene of Jon is him going to live with the wildlings. If he is honourable to the point of not caring to cause himself self harm, surely he would want to punish himself for killing his queen? He goes to enjoy with the free folk. Technically he broke he contract they had with the Unsullied whose queen he killed just because they can’t show up North and check if he is actually serving the sentence and also because his cousins are on the throne and won’t enforce it. If he can can run away from his punishment, running away after killing her is equivalent. 

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I disagree. Just because the other person is terrible, it doesnt justify Jon doing something that would be beneath him.

He already did it by killing her without her realising it. He killed her by tricking her into kissing him. It was his first kill with a dagger. He knows that Grey Worm is not going to be punished for his crimes. So why should he? And again he is still an idiot as judging by what he saw Grey Worm do, he should have killed him instantly. Both the dragon and Grey Worm were terribly out of character based on what we know of them. 

 

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I disagree. GW was just blindly following Dany. He may be misguided and stupid. Not dishonorable.

He was blindly following dany, although I agree, missandei dying had a lot to do with it. But he would've followed Dany even if missandei were alive imo.

No he does have empathy. That’s why he he fell in love with Missandei despite being an Unsullied. He was behaving like a normal person. When Missandei died, his facial expressions change and he becomes exactly like Dany. He knows he is slaughtering innocent women and children. THere is no honour in that. Tyrion even says this to Janos Slynt back in season 3. He says "I didn’t realise peace depended on killing babies." when he says he was just following the King’s orders and again to Meryn Trant when he beats Sansa and strips her just because Joffrey told him to. Blindly following orders isn’t honour  

If Missandei was alive, she would have stopped Grey Worm from killing everyone. 

 

[Techmaester]

10 hours ago, Kaapstad said:

If Missandei was alive, she would have stopped Grey Worm from killing everyone. 

It would seem the take home message is don't let your leaders antagonize an enemy that will kill you for it? Kings Landing could have rebelled of course, they didn't. They went along with Cersei when given an option to not and they died because of it. How is this wrong? 

[Apoplexy]

11 hours ago, Kaapstad said:

Surrendering to the very persons who were responsible for the slaughter of Kings Landing is honourable? If anything, killing the whole lot of them is. Grey Worm got away scot free for crimes. If Jon is all about honour then he should see it to it that they are punished along with him. But they run away. 

Who else would he surrender to? 

Also, Gw getting away was out of Jon's control.

11 hours ago, Kaapstad said:

One more thing. The last scene of Jon is him going to live with the wildlings. If he is honourable to the point of not caring to cause himself self harm, surely he would want to punish himself for killing his queen? He goes to enjoy with the free folk. Technically he broke he contract they had with the Unsullied whose queen he killed just because they can’t show up North and check if he is actually serving the sentence and also because his cousins are on the throne and won’t enforce it. If he can can run away from his punishment, running away after killing her is equivalent. 

I'm not defending Jon escaping his sentence. And I disagree with the bolded. It's not the same. Running away after killing Dany would be much worse.

11 hours ago, Kaapstad said:

He already did it by killing her without her realising it. He killed her by tricking her into kissing him. It was his first kill with a dagger. He knows that Grey Worm is not going to be punished for his crimes. So why should he? And again he is still an idiot as judging by what he saw Grey Worm do, he should have killed him instantly. Both the dragon and Grey Worm were terribly out of character based on what we know of them. 

I am not defending how Jon killed Dany. As for killing GW, what of the dothraki and the other unsullied? Surely killing GW wouldn't solve that problem.

 

11 hours ago, Kaapstad said:

No he does have empathy. That’s why he he fell in love with Missandei despite being an Unsullied. He was behaving like a normal person. When Missandei died, his facial expressions change and he becomes exactly like Dany.

He knows he is slaughtering innocent women and children. THere is no honour in that. Tyrion even says this to Janos Slynt back in season 3. He says "I didn’t realise peace depended on killing babies." when he says he was just following the King’s orders and again to Meryn Trant when he beats Sansa and strips her just because Joffrey told him to. Blindly following orders isn’t honour  

If Missandei was alive, she would have stopped Grey Worm from killing everyone.

I agree, but the point I was making was that GW wasn't behaving the way he was solely because missandei was killed. I don't know how missandei would have stopped him had she been alive.