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Your biggest what if?

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If Jon  had been a girl (I call her Lyarra like her Grandmother), the whole storyline about the nights watch would have been altered. 

Now she (Lyarra Snow) not only had to overcome her bastard state, but to be a girl in a man´s world. As a result, she would have depended far more on alliances than on her fighting skills.  She would have been a hero of a different kind. Not so much a lone wolf, but leader of the pack. 

Lyarra looks very much like her "aunt" lyanna, but is a blonde. As there was no need for her to be raised as a lady, the is even fiercer than Arya who is her best friend. She often gets punished for her "bad" influence on Arya. When she grows up, her resemblence to lyanna became more an more obvious, painfully obvious. So Eddard is forced to get her out of the way before Robert´s visit of Winterfell.
 
Instead of beeing send to the nightswatch, Eddard married her to  one of the Mountain clans, eg. House Norrey. 

There she came in contact with the wildlings, as she is taken hostage on one of their raids... 

Lyarra therefore ist far more northern then Jon, which, in my opion, would fit even better to the icy part of the story.

Edited by Wolfbynature
wording

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What if Daemon Blackfyre married Daenerys Targaryen? 

What if children of Kiera (Blackfyre?) and Valarr Targaryen didn't die? 

What if Jaehaerys II and Shaera didn't elope and married their bethored? 

What if Rhaegar crowned his wife like a decent man? 

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It's such a complex plot and there are so many pivotal moments that could have completely changed the story that we have. Starting right at the beginning at the point where we pick the story up, I often wonder "what if" Ned had taken Gared's rantings more seriously or had taken the time to question what had traumatised the man so badly.

Would Ned's words have enough sway to prompt the NW to discover the threat of The Others earlier? And if this preceded Robert's visit to Winterfell, could this have meant more support for The Wall from the throne? How would this shift in focus impact the politics and subsequent events in KL? 

A relatively small change in the very early pages and I think the effects would ripple all the way through changing almost every aspect of the story.

 

 

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On 5/26/2019 at 2:00 AM, El Diego said:

My biggest what if, and I'm sure it has been thoroughly discussed in this forum, is what if Rhaegar won the battle of the Trident?

I initially thought it would be all rosy, Rhaegar is great and he'd depose daddy and peace would spread through the realms; but now I think about it much more critically. Rhaegar still has to explain his "abduction", multiple great houses have to be replaced, and Rhaegar was on a slow descent into prophecy madness (even if he turns out to be right, it wouldn't have made for a steady ruler).

Rhaegar might be less mercifull than Robert was. He did afterall have more legitimacy, perhaps that would lead to less resistance toward him taking revenge.

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What if we used the books to cite textual evidence in order to discuss what may come to be, thus not creating fanatical fiction in the process?

On 5/28/2019 at 5:15 PM, Ser Leftwich said:

all 'what ifs' are fan-fic explorations and therefore pointless

Exactly this. 

-MODs-, I know there are a lot of people here that like this kind of thing so maybe a separate forum for those that like to play this useless game? Then those that want to discuss THE books can enjoy the ASOIAF forum without mention of the abomination or this fake fan fiction.  You can title it, "CHANGE THE STORY TO YOUR LIKING, F GRRM!"

I know it will be hard for the masses, but those of us that are true book fanatics will truly be in bliss if we only read about the books in the book only forum!

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On 6/1/2019 at 12:16 AM, the Other Wolf said:

What if we used the books to cite textual evidence in order to discuss what may come to be, thus not creating fanatical fiction in the process?

Exactly this. 

-MODs-, I know there are a lot of people here that like this kind of thing so maybe a separate forum for those that like to play this useless game? Then those that want to discuss THE books can enjoy the ASOIAF forum without mention of the abomination or this fake fan fiction.  You can title it, "CHANGE THE STORY TO YOUR LIKING, F GRRM!"

I know it will be hard for the masses, but those of us that are true book fanatics will truly be in bliss if we only read about the books in the book only forum!

Or maybe the people who don't want to read or discuss this just avoid the "What if"-threads? I see no good reason for butting in on it just to rip at what type of subject it has. If against the rules or if you want the moderators to take a look: report it.

 

If there is something bothering me,  I don't seek it out and I certainly don't partake. I have one poster on ignore because he pisses me off like a horse whisperer. I don't read the Frey-lovers threads because I don't like their morality-stretches. All you need to do is not click on the topics containing the words "what if" and you are good to go. :) 

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My biggest what-if is still what would have happened if Ned agreed to Renly’s plan. A successful North-Riverlands-Stormlamds-Reach alliance would have been formidable. Would a Renly still have been assassinated? My other what-if comes from Cat’s POV where she wishes Robb could have fallen into the arms of Margaery Tyrell instead. Once again, that would be a formidable alliance, and I would love to see what those two would be like and what they would aspire to as a couple. 

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It's a small what-if and probably inconsequential to the story, but what if Ned had told Cat about Jon's parentage? Would the secret have come out? And not just because Cat might accidentally tell someone, but if Cat were kinder to Jon, would that itself raise questions? Because if Jon's parentage could have been kept secret with Cat in the know, it would have made both Jon and Cat's lives easier.

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Okay, what if Jamie was not Cersei’s twin brother? 

Because them being in an incestuous relationship has a massive impact on how we view her and other characters opposition to her. Consider Ned trying to rat her out. He would have done the same even they were just two people in love. But the incest twists every action her and Jamie make.

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1
On 5/28/2019 at 7:24 PM, TheThreeEyedCow said:

The idea is that it wouldn't of been safe. Let's say Jon is fostered with the Manderly's of White Harbor. Should Wyman or anyone else for that matter, discover Jon's alleged parentage, they could be inclined to start a war over it. Jon going to join the NW meant he'd relinquish any rights and titles. It wasn't necessarily best for Jon. But it was the safest thing for the realm. 

It would have been perfectly safe to have him fostered at Greywater Watch with Howland Reed. Not only does he know of Jon's parentage, but Lyanna was also his friend and he'd do right by her son. Besides, the crannogmen mostly keep to themselves so it wouldn't even be an issue where the rest of the North is concerned because they don't spare them much thought as it is.

As to the OP, I like wondering about how small changes could have major ramifications for the story. Like if Sansa hadn't gone to Cersei then her and Arya would have possibly gotten home (unless LF interfered), but then they'd be at WF once Theon took it, and I think Ramsay would have ensured Theon keep Sansa under watch 24/7 so he could marry her himself later on.

Or if Ned had allowed Loras to go after the Mountain, then he'd most certainly be dead and the Tyrells would never side with the Lannisters following Renly's death which would be great for Robb.

 

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On 6/17/2019 at 3:41 AM, WolfOfWinter said:

It would have been perfectly safe to have him fostered at Greywater Watch with Howland Reed. Not only does he know of Jon's parentage, but Lyanna was also his friend and he'd do right by her son. Besides, the crannogmen mostly keep to themselves so it wouldn't even be an issue where the rest of the North is concerned because they don't spare them much thought as it is.
 

That would be pure speculation on your part seeing as we've never been to Greywater Watch, and we've never met Howland Reed. 

I can't remember the Reeds even mentioning Jon.

If we're going to guess, we could assume that Lyanna stipulated that Jon be raised at WF. We still don't know the nature of the promise sworn to her. 

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If Dany never exiles Jorah.

- She doesn’t find herself alone and fall into the isolated paranoia she has in ADWD. She has her bear to care for her and she knows she’s not alone. You get a sense of this in her final ADWD chapter. Personally I think learning Jorah was a traitor and losing him had a massive impact on Danys state of mind. Even if she takes him back it won’t ever be the same.

- She has another advisor who’s better able to deal with some of the issues of Mereen. He may have encouraged her to stop the destruction of Astapor. Taking a more balanced approach rather than total appeasement only to knee jerk reject it entirely as has been setup in ADWD.

- Tyrion ends up with Aegon as he is not abducted in Volantis. This means that he is more likely to consolidate his rule and gain the Westerlands.

- In addition the Second Sons don’t change sides. So they likely get destroyed in the Battle of Fire.

- Barristan would not be the only Westerosi in a strange land. Although they hate each other, better him than the Shavepate. 

- In Volantis it’s apparently common gossip that Dany casts aside those who trust her the most. This is very bad for a woman with rumours of madness about her. Such rumours don’t start if she keeps Jorah around. Having a Northman who fought at the Trident and was Knighted by Robert is basically a giant advertisement for “I am willing to forgive people! Look, would my father keep this man around!” As it stands people would likely compare this to Aerys dismissing Tywin.

This is the second biggest what if involving Jorah and Dany. 

 

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What if Robert had died shortly after the Battle of the Trident and Cersei would have been married to Stannis. 

Edited by Stormland's Fury

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On 5/31/2019 at 3:53 AM, Wolfbynature said:

If Jon  had been a girl (I call her Lyarra like her Grandmother), the whole storyline about the nights watch would have been altered. 

Now she (Lyarra Snow) not only had to overcome her bastard state, but to be a girl in a man´s world. As a result, she would have depended far more on alliances than on her fighting skills.  She would have been a hero of a different kind. Not so much a lone wolf, but leader of the pack.

Plus the whole relationship between Ned, Catelyn, and Lyanna's child would have been dramatically changed, probably for the better. While keeping the girl around is still a poke in the eye to Catelyn, it almost completely removes the fear that Catelyn has of Jon competing with her own sons. Now not only is the child much further down the line of succession technically, but there's going to be almost zero chance of someone claiming that Ned's "bastard" girl is the TRUE line of Stark succession and deposing Robb et. al as the fakes. This is one of Catelyn's biggest fears about Jon when she references the Blackfyre rebellion, plus what we saw with the Dance of the Dragons.

That improves Ned's relationship with Catelyn, and makes Catelyn way less hostile to the child.

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