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Anthony Appleyard

Valyrian families surviving after the Doom

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The books mention that Targaryens had to marry sisters because they could not find any other pure-blooded Valyrians. But surely, when the Doom came, there must have been some Valyrians in the Valyrian colonies, to run the colonies (and perhaps some of the family's dragons with them),? And another member of this forum wrote that at the Doom some Valyrian dragon-riders may have been riding and well away from Valyria. In that case, Valyrians including the Targaryens could have found wives in the usual way from those other families, and thus be free from effects of inbreeding?

 

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We don't have much data about it I think.

From what I could find on the Wiki, it seems that some families survived but got killed after that. The other who did survive tried to go back, and were never heard of. 

We could always assume some did but it is seems unlikely. Everything tries to show that the Targaryen were the choosen one with the vision they received. 

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In AWOIAF it says that some Valyrians tried to go back and disappeared, and others who were ruling colonies were deposed and killed

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There were attested dragonriders in Tyrosh and Lys (killed in riots) and Qohor (tried to go back to Valyria and disappeared).

 

But there were dragonless Valyrian families. In Dragonstone archipelago, the attested ones were Velaryon, Celtigar, Qoherys. And there were dragonless Valyrian Old Blood in Lys and Volantis.

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Posted (edited)

This passage in AWOIAF explains what happened to the very few Valyrian dragonlords who were not on the peninsula at the time:

Quote

What followed in the sudden vacuum was chaos. The dragonlords had been gathered in Valyria as was their wont … except for Aenar Targaryen, his children, and his dragons, who had fled to Dragonstone and so escaped the Doom. Some accounts claim that a few others survived, too … for a time. It is said that some Valyrian dragonlords in Tyrosh and Lys were spared, but that in the immediate political upheaval following the Doom, they and their dragons were killed by the citizens of those Free Cities. The histories of Qohor likewise claim that a visiting dragonlord, Aurion, raised forces from the Qohorik colonists and proclaimed himself the first Emperor of Valyria. He flew away on the back of his great dragon, with thirty thousand men following behind afoot, to lay claim to what remained of Valyria and to reestablish the Freehold. But neither Emperor Aurion nor his host were ever seen again.
The time of the dragons in Essos was at an end.

None of the dragonriders, save for the Targs, survived the Doom. There were some lesser families descending from Valyria living on islands near Dragonstone that Targs occasionally married. The blood of the Freehold also runs strong in former colonies like Lys. That's why some Targs went there to look for spouses. However, they needed to marry relatives to keep the blood magic going. The inbreeding clearly had a desired effect, rather than an undesired one. 

Edited by Ghost+Nymeria4Eva

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If I recall, Incest is common among all Valyrians, we were told. As for surviving Valyrians, as said, Old Volantis and Lys is full of them, Braavos may still have people of pure or mostly pure Valyrian descent as well, since there were many Valyrian slaves as well, they may have only or mostly married among themselves. There is also Elyria, Mantarys and other places founded by Valyrians.

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Posted (edited)

We know of the Targs, Velaryons and Celtigars. We know of a dragonlord that went to Valyrian with a HUGE army but never returned so I guess that was common. Also take account that valyrian blood that can be found in Lys or Volantis and other of the free cities

Edited by Baelor 'Breakspear'

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On 5/26/2019 at 11:48 AM, Anthony Appleyard said:

The books mention that Targaryens had to marry sisters because they could not find any other pure-blooded Valyrians. But surely, when the Doom came, there must have been some Valyrians in the Valyrian colonies, to run the colonies (and perhaps some of the family's dragons with them),? And another member of this forum wrote that at the Doom some Valyrian dragon-riders may have been riding and well away from Valyria. In that case, Valyrians including the Targaryens could have found wives in the usual way from those other families, and thus be free from effects of inbreeding?

 

Valyrians always married brother to sister even before the doom.  It's not a new practice.  It has been going on for thousands of years.  The Dragonlords started and maintained the tradition.  

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9 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Valyrians always married brother to sister even before the doom.  It's not a new practice.  It has been going on for thousands of years.  The Dragonlords started and maintained the tradition.  

How far did and do non-dragonlord Valyrians follow suit?

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57 minutes ago, Jaak said:

How far did and do non-dragonlord Valyrians follow suit?

I don’t recall any indication of Velaryons and Celtigars following the practice, or talk of incestuous marriage in Lys. Although i’m not sure how much this tells us really in a post-Doom Planetos

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We know if Elyria, Mantarys and Tolos are still of Valyrian ethnicity ? Since it's the ghiscari who are now (before dany arrival) the rulers of the Slaver's bay area, the cities may have been conquered by their ancient ennemy.

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Posted (edited)

Isn't Mantarys uninhabited save for mutants? And I'd wager atleast a dozen or so dragonlords and their cohorts where dicking around in the colonies when the Doom hit, and then yes, riots. And assassinations, and the encouragement of amazingly stupid ideas. It seems those directly under the dragonlords in rank wanted to replace them on top of the totem pole, and everyone else had one sort of grudge or another against them. The Dragonstone Lords and their fiefdom was likely ignored because it very quickly became a single dragon house instead of a half dozen dragons, and their resources were limited. They could easily be ignored.

 

Then the Chaos began and everybody in Essos had more pressing matters, and eventually Aegon and Balerion fought with Argilac and the alliance against Volantis, making it clear that the Targaryens had at least a few powerful allies now, and of course had hatched a few more dragons.

Edited by Vashon

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On 6/2/2019 at 11:08 PM, Vashon said:

Isn't Mantarys uninhabited save for mutants? And I'd wager atleast a dozen or so dragonlords and their cohorts where dicking around in the colonies when the Doom hit, and then yes, riots. And assassinations, and the encouragement of amazingly stupid ideas. It seems those directly under the dragonlords in rank wanted to replace them on top of the totem pole, and everyone else had one sort of grudge or another against them. The Dragonstone Lords and their fiefdom was likely ignored because it very quickly became a single dragon house instead of a half dozen dragons, and their resources were limited. They could easily be ignored.

 

Then the Chaos began and everybody in Essos had more pressing matters, and eventually Aegon and Balerion fought with Argilac and the alliance against Volantis, making it clear that the Targaryens had at least a few powerful allies now, and of course had hatched a few more dragons.

Mantarys seems to have enough people to deal with Meereen politically, but it could be all mutants as you suggest. I'd wager the old families of Volantis and Lys, their surnames, are the best to go by. Personally, I don't think any many other families maintained the "pure" Valyrian blood as much as the Targaryens did.

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2 hours ago, blindaviator94 said:

Personally, I don't think any many other families maintained the "pure" Valyrian blood as much as the Targaryens did.

At least in Volantis they did. Only pureblooded valyrians can be triarchs there.

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On 6/3/2019 at 6:08 AM, Vashon said:

And I'd wager atleast a dozen or so dragonlords and their cohorts where dicking around in the colonies when the Doom hit, and then yes, riots.

There were minimum of three - 1 in Qohor, at least 1 in Lys, at least 1 in Tyrosh. I´d wager that minimum of 3 was all there was.

On 6/7/2019 at 6:31 PM, The Hoare said:

At least in Volantis they did. Only pureblooded valyrians can be triarchs there.

No.

We hear only the requirement of "proven Valyrian descent".

Not stated that nobles of mixed Valyrian and non-Valyrian ancestry would be disqualified from election.

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Yeah, I never really understood why the Targaryens were considered the last of the Valyrians, when the Velaryons are also of Valyrian descent, and many of them were dragon riders. Then again, I'm also not sure why the Valyrians married their siblings, when there were dozens of dragon-riding, pure-blood Valyrian families prior to the Doom.

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On 6/7/2019 at 11:31 AM, The Hoare said:

At least in Volantis they did. Only pureblooded valyrians can be triarchs there.

Only those who can trace their unbroken decent from what I remember, meaning it is not necessarily pure. But I do see your point.

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On 6/1/2019 at 7:16 PM, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Valyrians always married brother to sister even before the doom.  It's not a new practice.  It has been going on for thousands of years.  The Dragonlords started and maintained the tradition.  

Yes! I think it comes more from wanting to keep dragons within the family than deep belief in incest.

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