J=E+Fisherman’s Daughter

[McGuv19]

According to Godric Borrell Eddard was taken from the Fingers to Three Sisters, where the fisherman died but his daughter was impregnated by Eddard. The boy was named Jon Snow after Jon Arryn, but being born in the Three Sisters, part of the Vale, he should have been called Jon Stone, right?

[rotting sea cow]

No. Being born in a particular region doesn't determine the name. The origin of the father who recognize you as his bastard does.

That's why Jon is Snow and not Sand. Despite being born in Dorne

That's why Obara is Sand and not Flowers, despite she was born in Oldtown.

That's why Edric is Storm and not Flowers, despite he was probably born at Brightwater Keep, in the Reach.

Etc.

There are cases where this rule seems to break, like in Brynden and Aegor Rivers, but I guess it has to do with them being royal bastards and their mothers from the Riverlands, which explain - as above - they don't get the name Waters.

[wvchemteach]

The best explanation I ever heard for this story is given by those who think Ashara Dayne is Jon's mother. They think the "fisherman's daughter" was Ashara in disguise.

[Clegane'sPup]

14 hours ago, McGuv19 said:

According to Godric Borrell Eddard was taken from the Fingers to Three Sisters, where the fisherman died but his daughter was impregnated by Eddard.

You are talking about a number of different issues.

I will preface that by saying most likely Jon Snow's biological mother is Lyanna Stark and his biological father is Rhaegar Targ.

When reading the novels Eddard Stark after the war brought home his bastard son.  That is the main point.

The the author leads me though a couple of baby momma drama's.   One being Eddard's possible involvement with the girl at the Harrenhal tourney.

Then martin via Davos gives the fisherman story that transpired during Eddard's travels to get home to Winterfell at the beginning of Robert's rebellion.

14 hours ago, McGuv19 said:

The boy was named Jon Snow after Jon Arryn, but being born in the Three Sisters, part of the Vale, he should have been called Jon Stone, right?

Was Eddard's false bastard named after Jon Arryn?

Was Eddard's false bastard born on or at the Three Sisters?

I mean, I gotta go with R & L as the biological parents of Jon Snow.  I don't like it much, but hey, unless martin pulls a rabbit out of his hat it appears to me that Jon Snow, Eddard's fake get, is the son of R & L.

Granted I don't much like the way the author lead me down the prim rose path.

The latest book was published in 2011 so actually L & R as Jon Snow's biological parents has not as of yet been written by martin.

As to the bastard born of the Three Sister's I got nada idea what their moniker is.

EDIT:  Reading a thread I was reminded of the Eddard and Robert chat about Wylla --- another possible Eddard baby momma.

[The Lord of the Crossing]

You can't rule out his origins based on his bastard last name.  He was brought to the north.  Everybody knows he wasn't born in the north.  His name is still "snow" because that is what Eddard chose to name him.  No one gives it much thought because it doesn't matter.  A bastard is just a bastard.  What matters if his name is "snow" or "stone"?  He's still a Stark bastard.

[Demetri]

It is notable that Jon, regardless of why, is an unconventional bastard. That's because a male member of his family took charge of him and recognizedI him as being a natural born product of that family. The conventional process leaves a woman with a baby and possible knowledge of the father. In that case, the more conventional bastard naming process seems to take effect. The home/location of the mother defaults to the regional bastard name. But with the paternal house/region being acknowledged and relation conceded by Ned, then it makes perfect sense for the regional bastard name to follow him and not the mother.

But this provides little proof. R+L=J has officially been confirmed by GRRM. And while Martin loves to dissemble and mislead, he has never point blank lied. The only usefulness of any theories to the contrary are in addressing what the status quo opinion is regarding Jon as a countervailing opinion to Targ ancestry. However, there is a lot of division and lack of concrete knowledge regarding Jon's parentage. Even Robert, who Ned had a very good reason to try to convince of a certain theory, only remembers it very vaguely. We might as well just accept R+L=J and spend time wondering precisely why and how it interacts with the story rather than continuing to theorize to the contrary.

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

Check out this chapter analysis I made about Davos going to the Three Sisters and White Harbor and what those chapters tell us about N + A = J.

 

[Ygrain]

Lord Godric was hardly anywhere near Jon's conception, so the great mystery of a fisherman's daughter whose identity Ned refused to reveal to his family remains in the realm of Westerosi tabloid avians.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

Godric Borrell is hardly a good source for this. There's a reason he is the one who gives Davos the story of Tywin's murder. The only thing that's true is that Tyrion escaped and killed his father. Everything else was embellished.

 

[Eddard Waters]

The Fishermen's daughter being Jon's mother doesn't make any logical sense if you think about it for half a second.

Why the hell would Ned absolutely refuse to reveal the identity of Jon's mother to anyone if she was only just a peasant?