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Varys


podtherod

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The thing that still bothers me the most about season 8 is Varys plotting to remove Dany BEFORE they took Kings Landing.  How did he think they would remove Cersei without Drogon/unsullied/Dothraki, all of which have no reason to follow Jon even if he is rightful king?  

Just utter nonsense to further Danys turn even thought it makes no sense for someone as smart as Varys.  Really disappointing. 

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34 minutes ago, podtherod said:

The thing that still bothers me the most about season 8 is Varys plotting to remove Dany BEFORE they took Kings Landing.  How did he think they would remove Cersei without Drogon/unsullied/Dothraki, all of which have no reason to follow Jon even if he is rightful king?  

Just utter nonsense to further Danys turn even thought it makes no sense for someone as smart as Varys.  Really disappointing. 

D & D turned Varys into an idiot from the start of Season 7.

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Davos: ''Not to defeat Cersei. You could storm King's Landing tomorrow and the city would fall. Hell, we almost took it and we didn't even have dragons!''

Jon already had the support of the North, the Vale. They just needed one more ally, Riverlands, Dorne, the Reach, Stormlands, only one of them could give them enough support to take the King's Landing.

Taking the City wasn't problem for them, they just didn't want to sack or destroy it.

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48 minutes ago, RYShh said:

Davos: ''Not to defeat Cersei. You could storm King's Landing tomorrow and the city would fall. Hell, we almost took it and we didn't even have dragons!''

Jon already had the support of the North, the Vale. They just needed one more ally, Riverlands, Dorne, the Reach, Stormlands, only one of them could give them enough support to take the King's Landing.

Taking the City wasn't problem for them, they just didn't want to sack or destroy it.

Or go through a siege that would slowly starve out the same half million everyone claims are the innocents who need to be defended?

I'd believe they had the manpower before Winterfell. 

With Urine Greyjoy's fleet they had no way through the Blackwater.

Once you introduce the Golden Company, the other Houses would not risk a rebellion if they had not before.

Even so, they might get Dorne. But would they truly follow the son of the man of put aside and belittled Princess Elia? 

The Stormlands? Same? But the descendant of the man who stole Robert's intended? 

The Riverlands depleted and impoverished after tge Lannister and Frey rule.

They told us the Reach was void of people.

In this scenario, Varys was better off getting rid of Daenerys the minute her ass sat on the IT.

Cersei problem solved, Rhaegar's son primed for the stability of the realm and political status quo for the system.

So he 'knew' there was a possibility shit might go South.

Nothing, regardless of wariness at her heredity and methods, regardless even of any possible certainty about her insanity? Nothing could allow him to foresee the events of The Bells or any timeline for the expected final drop of the 'coin'.

Wait, let her ged rid of Cersei, arrange an 'illness'.

That would be in keeping with the repuration of someone like Varys.

 

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9 minutes ago, It_spelt_Magalhaes said:

Or go through a siege that would slowly starve out the same half million everyone claims are the innocents who need to be defended?

I'd believe they had the manpower before Winterfell. 

With Urine Greyjoy's fleet they had no way through the Blackwater.

Once you introduce the Golden Company, the other Houses would not risk a rebellion if they had not before.

Even so, they might get Dorne. But would they truly follow the son of the man of put aside and belittled Princess Elia? 

The Stormlands? Same? But the descendant of the man who stole Robert's intended? 

The Riverlands depleted and impoverished after tge Lannister and Frey rule.

They told us the Reach was void of people.

In this scenario, Varys was better off getting rid of Daenerys the minute her ass sat on the IT.

Cersei problem solved, Rhaegar's son primed for the stability of the realm and political status quo for the system.

So he 'knew' there was a possibility shit might go South.

Nothing, regardless of wariness at her heredity and methods, regardless even of any possible certainty about her insanity? Nothing could allow him to foresee the events of The Bells or any timeline for the expected final drop of the 'coin'.

That would be in keeping with the repuration of someone like Varys.

 

Dorne would certainly follow them since they hate Lannisters, especially after killing Oberyn and Ellaria Sand.

Freys were dead, and we know Edmure was alive, they could get Edmure's and the other riverlords help, Edmure hates Lannisters as well.

Even with Golden Company, they still had no chance if Dorne and the Riverlands joins them, they could use Samwell Tarly to claim the Horn Hill and Gendry to Stormlands, there are many possibilities and Cersei would be easily outnumbered.

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18 hours ago, podtherod said:

The thing that still bothers me the most about season 8 is Varys plotting to remove Dany BEFORE they took Kings Landing.  How did he think they would remove Cersei without Drogon/unsullied/Dothraki, all of which have no reason to follow Jon even if he is rightful king?  

Just utter nonsense to further Danys turn even thought it makes no sense for someone as smart as Varys.  Really disappointing. 

Varys suspects she would burn the city to the ground and slaughter its population, so yes, it makes sense that he is plotting to remove her before she takes Kings Landing.
Varys may not like Cerseï, but he only cares for the common peoples, and when Dany becomes unstable and starts showing willingness to burn the city, he understands she is more dangerous than Tyrion's sister.
Also, don't forget that he know Jon is a Targaryen, and he knows Jon can ride a Dragon, so he probably thinks that if he poison her, Jon will keep the dragon, depose Cerseï without burning Kings Landing, and rule as a wise and just king.
Varys' mistake was probably that he tried too many things at the same time, sending messages about Jon's parentage, and trying to persuade Jon to claim the thrones were mistakes... he should have just stay silent, and poison her... and try to frame Cerseï for the murder... Jon would have taken Kings Landing in order to avenge his queen but without unnecessary violence, he would have taken the throne, and everything would have worked for Varys.
I guess the urgence of the situation made him try too many things at the same time because he didn't know what would work.

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Varys was sending out letters across the realm proclaiming Jon as the rightful King. He would've had the North, the Riverlands, and the Vale on his side. He could've gotten the Stormlands on his side due to his friendship with Gendry. Then he could've married a noblewoman from the Reach or Dorne. 

It would've been smarter to dispose of Daenerys after she took King's Landing, but I can see what Varys was thinking. 

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5 hours ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

Varys was sending out letters across the realm proclaiming Jon as the rightful King. He would've had the North, the Riverlands, and the Vale on his side. He could've gotten the Stormlands on his side due to his friendship with Gendry. Then he could've married a noblewoman from the Reach or Dorne. 

It would've been smarter to dispose of Daenerys after she took King's Landing, but I can see what Varys was thinking. 

It's annoying that those letters amounted to nothing. At the great wise council, why wasn't it brought up that Jon should be king. Like even mentioned...

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Dont forget telling the dwarf he wants her dead and going around as normal when said dwarf does not agree. How not subtle.

Or being absent of relevance most of the time, the famous spider, master of secrets.  

What was the point of the messages, that went nowhere!

Very irresponsible indeed to plot in such murderous manner against danny on the eve of battle.

Tyrion was much worse.

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2 hours ago, btfu806 said:

It's annoying that those letters amounted to nothing. At the great wise council, why wasn't it brought up that Jon should be king. Like even mentioned...

All the foreshadowing to Jon and Daenerys having a child amounted to nothing, Jon being a Targaryen amounted to nothing, Bran's quest from Season 1-4 amounted to nothing besides from him being a good storyteller, which apparently makes him fit to be the King. Alot of things in this show ended up amounting to nothing. 

That "Trial of Tyrion Lannister" scene would've been alot more interesting if there was some actual debate on who should be the next King. There should've been people voting in favor of Jon, some putting themselves forward (besides the random Edmure Tully joke D&D in their infinite wisdom decided to add), and there should've been people voting to separate the Kingdoms. Instead everyone just randomly voted for Bran. Well, everyone besides Sansa, the one person who it would make sense to vote for Bran. 

I feel like if the season was longer then the Varys' letters plotline would've been more of a thing. Then again though, you'd think considering D&D guessing Jon's parentage was the reason GRRM gave them permission to make the show in the first place, they would make R+L=J actually have some meaning besides Jon and Daenerys having a lovers quarrel. So do you know what, no, even if the season was longer I doubt Varys' letters would've amounted to anything.

Well, I've now made myself depressed all over again. I'm going to go and listen to the Kingsmoot chapter in the AFfC audiobook. 

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Dany saying "I can't have children" isn't foreshadowing that she can.

Varys wanted to stop Dany from killing innocents because that's exactly what she said she was going to do?

Varys' actions are the least of my problems in this episode. I'm more disappointed in Jon turning down the same offer Varys gave to his father. Really dumb.

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8 hours ago, Dragonslack said:

Dont forget telling the dwarf he wants her dead and going around as normal when said dwarf does not agree. How not subtle.

Or being absent of relevance most of the time, the famous spider, master of secrets.  

What was the point of the messages, that went nowhere!

Very irresponsible indeed to plot in such murderous manner against danny on the eve of battle.

Tyrion was much worse.

I am now reminded of tv-show LOST! They also sent messages which ended up at Pearl Tube Depository.

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21 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

And you don't question the source of that line...Jon Snow?

What does he know about witches, women's fertility, or anything really...

Nothing.

It's just a little foreshadowing, not an essay in the New England Journal of Medicine. 

Doesn't take an OB/GYN to question the motives of a vengeful witch.

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6 minutes ago, Rory Snow said:

It's just a little foreshadowing, not an essay in the New England Journal of Medicine. 

Doesn't take an OB/GYN to question the motives of a vengeful witch.

It wasn't foreshadowing because nothing happened.

Yet everyone read into it like it WAS ORDAINED and assumed she was already pregnant. I had to read that shit for two years. 

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27 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

It wasn't foreshadowing because nothing happened.

Yet everyone read into it like it WAS ORDAINED and assumed she was already pregnant. I had to read that shit for two years. 

And you've never made a prediction that didn't come true? You should play the lottery

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