NBA Finals 2019: Can the Raptors Claw Out a Win?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 minutes ago, briantw said:

The Warriors were going to cruise to an easy title win over anyone with Durant healthy, which is why no one really respected his title wins the way he hoped they would.  He was basically a cheat code on that team.

Curry is the cheat code. The problem is he is undersized, and given that he was the only Warrior that could create his own shot, they needed another. Don’t be mad they just so happened to get one of the best players ever to do it. I don’t see anyone complaining that the team in the East who had the most wins last year also went out and got a top 3 player.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 minutes ago, Proudfeet said:

With KD maybe. But they've already beaten Klay twice. 

The Warriors have three guys who score surrounded by a ton of dudes who take care of everything else. They can function missing one of them, but not two, especially if the last one is Steph for the reasons I just laid out.  

[Relic]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

 I don’t see anyone complaining that the team in the East who had the most wins last year also went out and got a top 3 player.

because it's not the same thing, at all, and you know it? and if you dont know it, well then, dunno what to tell ya

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

12 minutes ago, Relic said:

because it's not the same thing, at all, and you know it? and if you dont know it, well then, dunno what to tell ya

It kind of is though. The Raptors realized they needed more, so they went out and got it. You act like teams should be complacent because they’ve already had some measure of success. If your Knicks had done the same thing, and it produced multiple titles, you’d be screaming joy from the top of that building that had a helicopter crash into it. Put down the Hatorade.

[Relic]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

It kind of is though. The Raptors realized they needed more, so they went out and got it. You act like teams should be complacent because they’ve already had some measure of success. If your Knicks had done the same thing, and it produced multiple titles, you’d be screaming joy from the top of that building that had a helicopter crash into it. Put down the Hatorade.

zzzzzzzzz

 

Im on record saying that i don't really want Durant, or Kyrie. And Adding Kawhi to the Raptors via trade is not the same as adding, via signing,  a top 5 player to a team that just won a championship. 

[DMC]

Anybody that thinks they know how long it will take for Thompson to get back doesn't understand ACL tears.  The recovery time varies widely, especially for basketball players.

[Jaime L]

4 hours ago, Rhom said:

Warriors confirm Klay has a torn ACL.

Fuck.  This series may have wrecked Golden State for good.

It's amazing how GS will go from, maybe, the most talented team of all time to this skeleton crew out there next year that may struggle to make the 8th seed in the West. I mean I know Coglan's Law "all things end badly" but this is brutal. 

Feel terrible for Klay. He had 30 points on 12 shots. Outside of game 6 against OKC, he'd never been better. He's demonstrably at his best when GS's backs are up against the wall and he (and we) were cheated out of seeing what he would do in the clutch.

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Man, I’m going to have a hard time ever respecting this championship. Yes it was a one point game and Curry had a clean look, and yes the Warriors’ missed free throws from the charity stripe will haunt them, but the injuries are too much to overlook. I think the Warriors win games 3 and 6 with a healthy Klay. With a healthy KD, I think it’s a gentleman’s sweep. And with a fully healthy team, which Toronto had, the Warriors straight up sweep them and it wouldn’t look close. But I guess this is just how dynasties die. Sucks for the Warriors that they lose another All-Star for all of next season.

The Raptors earned this championship. I'm not convinced they don't beat a fully healthy GS. Houston extended a fully healthy GS to 6 brutally hard fought games and Toronto is better and deeper than Houston. I feel strongly it goes 7 and it's a shame now we'll never know. They were unquestionably the better team throughout. The two wins GS managed were by the slimmest margins imaginable and 3 of their wins were absolute beat downs. 

Sure they benefited from an easier Finals than expected but the road through the East was the hardest we've seen in at least a decade if not more. This is the rare champion that had worthy, loaded opponents from the 2nd round on. Philly, Milwaukee and GS...that on paper is the hardest road of any champion in 30 years. GS breaking down kept that from coming to fruition (which again, what a fucking shame) but even accounting for that it's among the harder paths to a title I've seen. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

24 minutes ago, Relic said:

zzzzzzzzz

 

Im on record saying that i don't really want Durant, or Kyrie. And Adding Kawhi to the Raptors via trade is not the same as adding, via signing,  a top 5 player to a team that just won a championship. 

Psh, stop. Last month you were excited by the idea of getting Kyrie, Durant and either Zion or AD. As was every Knicks fan alive.

We need to put this nonsense to bed. Literally every fan of a team would love what the Warriors did if it happened to your team. Quit being mad that another team was smarter and demand that your team catch up.

[Iskaral Pust]

Congrats to the Raptors.  It’s a pretty amazing story of how they traded players every which way to suddenly arrive at this point.  No doubt that they earned their title, but IMO it will always have an asterisk because they only faced a severely depleted GSW.

A horrible ending for Klay and KD, who both played through injuries at terrible personal cost just as they become free agents.

But, in fairness to the Raptors, basketball is a game of small teams each relying on a couple of major stars to be healthy after a long season.  Play-offs will be heavily influenced by who’s relatively healthy, and any champion in any year probably had some strong contender who fell away with an injury or two.

 

[DanteGabriel]

32 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

It kind of is though. The Raptors realized they needed more, so they went out and got it. You act like teams should be complacent because they’ve already had some measure of success. If your Knicks had done the same thing, and it produced multiple titles, you’d be screaming joy from the top of that building that had a helicopter crash into it. Put down the Hatorade.

The Raptors traded a franchise cornerstone to rent Kawhi for a year. They took a gamble and it worked. Remember, there were questions about Kawhi's attitude and health after his weird standoff with the Spurs. It could all have fallen apart like it did for the Celtics.

That's far different from KD and Boogie taking short money to hop on a rolling bandwagon.

As for treating this championship as invalid... Come on. I guess the Lakers' championship in 2009 shouldn't count because KG got injured. How far do you want to go with this logic?

[Maithanet]

I'd also note that the Raptors are not fully healthy.  Kawhi wasn't moving in this series like he was vs Philly.  And they were missing OG Anunby all series, who would have been a valuable rotation player.  Obviously that's not as bad as what the Warriors were dealing with, but when you make a team as top-heavy as the Warriors, all of those guys are going to see a lot of minutes and the possibility of injuries derailing your season comes with the territory.  

 

[Fragile Bird]

There’s a really good compilation of basically a year’s worth of comments and news reports, starting with the Raptors’ last season playoff elimination to just before one of these last games showing the progression from the elimination, to The Trade, to the justification, to the emotional upset of the fans, to the growing enthusiasm and on. I’ll post it when I can (I posted it on Facebook), someone from the CBC put it together.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

22 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

The Raptors earned this championship. I'm not convinced they don't beat a fully healthy GS. Houston extended a fully healthy GS to 6 brutally hard fought games and Toronto is better and deeper than Houston. I feel strongly it goes 7 and it's a shame now we'll never know. They were unquestionably the better team throughout. The two wins GS managed were by the slimmest margins imaginable and 3 of their wins were absolute beat downs. 

Sure they benefited from an easier Finals than expected but the road through the East was the hardest we've seen in at least a decade if not more. This is the rare champion that had worthy, loaded opponents from the 2nd round on. Philly, Milwaukee and GS...that on paper is the hardest road of any champion in 30 years. GS breaking down kept that from coming to fruition (which again, what a fucking shame) but even accounting for that it's among the harder paths to a title I've seen. 

I have to disagree, and I say that as someone, frankly the only person, who did an entire playoff predication, who had the Bucks in six over the Warriors. I think it was pretty clear that when the Warriors had everyone, they could overwhelm this team. But the Warriors were forced to play garbage time players for much of the series.

I think this Raptors team was good enough to win a title, but they faced a completely broken team. One that suffered three catastrophic injuries and several others as well.

21 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I'd also note that the Raptors are not fully healthy.  Kawhi wasn't moving in this series like he was vs Philly.  And they were missing OG Anunby all series, who would have been a valuable rotation player.  Obviously that's not as bad as what the Warriors were dealing with, but when you make a team as top-heavy as the Warriors, all of those guys are going to see a lot of minutes and the possibility of injuries derailing your season comes with the territory.  

 

Kawhi was as hurt as Iggy. Let that sink in when Durant tore his Achilles and Klay tore his ACL, the two worst common injuries basketball players can suffer.

Talk about a dynasty literally dying. And it all happening in their arena's swan song. 

[Proudfeet]

 

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

The Warriors have three guys who score surrounded by a ton of dudes who take care of everything else. They can function missing one of them, but not two, especially if the last one is Steph for the reasons I just laid out.  

Yes, and they beat Klay twice. 

Also, Klay left them up five or seven, so they didn't "only beat you (Warriors without KD and Klay) by a basket". They made up that deficit in a quarter and a half.

[briantw]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Curry is the cheat code. The problem is he is undersized, and given that he was the only Warrior that could create his own shot, they needed another. Don’t be mad they just so happened to get one of the best players ever to do it. I don’t see anyone complaining that the team in the East who had the most wins last year also went out and got a top 3 player.

The Warriors were beatable when Curry was their best player.  As a Cavs fan, I know that as well as anyone, and they were a Durant choke job away from losing to the Thunder too.  It was adding Durant that made them winning a foregone conclusion, and it took Durant getting hurt to make the playoffs interesting.

And I'm not mad at all.  I'm actually happy that the competitive balance of the league may actually be restored next year, which may inspire me to start watching non-Cavs games again.

[Maithanet]

Just now, briantw said:

And I'm not mad at all.  I'm actually happy that the competitive balance of the league may actually be restored next year, which may inspire me to start watching non-Cavs games again.

I'm also happy about this.  I don't mind there being 3-4 superteams, that's always the case in the NBA.  But when there's only one it's just a waste of everybody's time.  The only question was whether the Warriors were healthy.  If they were, you didn't really even need to pay attention.  Not very sportsman like. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

13 minutes ago, Proudfeet said:

 

Yes, and they beat Klay twice. 

Also, Klay left them up five or seven, so they didn't "only beat you (Warriors without KD and Klay) by a basket". They made up that deficit in a quarter and a half.

Is this a series argument? “Yeah, they were only up by seven when the hottest guy on the court who couldn’t miss tore his ACL.” Klay had 30 through three. If the Raptors had won by 14, you’d have an argument. But they essentially won by 2, so you don’t. And they lost Klay’s elite defense. The Warriors were winning that game if Klay didn’t get hurt. That makes the series 3-3. And there’s a decent chance they win game three if they had him. And again, he was hurt the whole damn time.

[Proudfeet]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

Is this a series argument? “Yeah, they were only up by seven when the hottest guy on the court who couldn’t miss tore his ACL.” Klay had 30 through three. If the Raptors had won by 14, you’d have an argument. But they essentially won by 2, so you don’t. And they lost Klay’s elite defense. The Warriors were winning that game if Klay didn’t get hurt. That makes the series 3-3. And there’s a decent chance they win game three if they had him. And again, he was hurt the whole damn time.

And they lost games one and four by a greater margin than they won two and five with Klay. 

Also, Klay left them in the third. You don't outscore teams by 20 in quarter and a half. You'd have an argument if Klay left in the first. 

[Jaime L]

4 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I'm also happy about this.  I don't mind there being 3-4 superteams, that's always the case in the NBA.  But when there's only one it's just a waste of everybody's time.  The only question was whether the Warriors were healthy.  If they were, you didn't really even need to pay attention.  Not very sportsman like. 

But you did. We just gonna act like the 7 game series against Houston last year never happened? Or the 6 gamer this year that could've easily swung had literally a couple shots gone differently. Not to mention we have no idea how this Raptors series would've gone. And who knows what happens if Kawhi doesn't get injured in 2017. 

The funny thing about all the Warriors coronation talk to me is that whenever a team actually did go all in to try to beat them (instead of waiting this superteam out like most of the league did), they gave them everything they could handle. They were overwhelming on paper, not in practice. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 minutes ago, Proudfeet said:

And they lost games one and four by a greater margin than they won two and five with Klay. 

Also, Klay left them in the third. You don't outscore teams by 20 in quarter and a half. You'd have an argument if Klay left in the first. 

And Klay wasn’t as hot in those games as he was last night. He was clearly the best player on the court, and when he went down it was game over. I’m actually amazed that the Warriors stayed in it to the end.

Look, Raptors fans have every right to be overjoyed by this, and the league is probably excited that it just massively expanded its fan base, but from a basketball purest standpoint, this is not how a dynasty is meant to die. I wanted to see a team overcome them, and I predicted that it would happen, but not this way. Not having three starters, including possibly the best player in the world, suffer devastating injuries. It makes their defeat feel hollow, and the fact that the Raptors still struggled suggests that the Warriors at full strength would have crushed them.

31 minutes ago, briantw said:

And I'm not mad at all.  I'm actually happy that the competitive balance of the league may actually be restored next year, which may inspire me to start watching non-Cavs games again.

It was going to happen anyways. This result actually increases the chances that the Warriors stay together, albeit with having a gap year while everyone is in hospice.