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What were Daenerys's plans for Jon in the long term?

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17 minutes ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

Being friendly with Targarygens hadn’t worked out too well for the Starks in the past.  Rickard and Brandon Stark went south in good faith and Mad King Aerys rewarded them by burning them alive.  They probably knew she showed the Tarlys no mercy unless they kneeled down to her. You are right that Dany did help them defeat the NK which was a good move but they saw what destruction she was capable of during that experience and so remained not completely supportive of her to be their Queen.  Starks tend to be cold and frosty anyway to outsiders such as Alaric Stark was to Good Queen Alysanne. However, Queen Alysanne won them over with her charm and wit and became close to Alaric’s daughter. Dany should have stayed in WF for a while to let her troops and dragons rest and spend some time on gaining their trust and friendship.  Instead, she lusted for power and revenge against Cersei and in the long run lost Missandei, her dragons, and the faith and trust she needed from allies and the common folk to welcome and love her as a fair and merciful ruler. 

To be fair Brandon went to KL and threatened to kill the heir to the IT. Stupid move on his part with a crazy King around. Jon deserves some blame with his Stark family not warming up to Dany. He really didn't do much to help the situation, if I remember correctly. Imo Sansa was never going to warm up and be friendly to Dany. No matter how long Dany stayed at WF. Sansa knew Dany was never going to give her what she wanted, a independent North.

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6 minutes ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

To be fair Brandon went to KL and threatened to kill the heir to the IT. Stupid move on his part with a crazy King around. Jon deserves some blame with his Stark family not warming up to Dany. He really didn't do much to help the situation, if I remember correctly. Imo Sansa was never going to warm up and be friendly to Dany. No matter how long Dany stayed at WF. Sansa knew Dany was never going to give her what she wanted, a independent North.

They were just trying to get justice without resorting to war IMO. From The World of Ice and Fire:  What followed Prince Rhaegar’s infamous abduction of Lyanna Stark was the ruin of House Targaryen.   The full depth of King Aery’s madness was subsequently revealed in his depraved actions against Lord Stark, his heir, and their supporters after they demanded redress for Rhaegar’s wrongs.   Instead of granting them fair hearing, King Aery’s had them brutally slain, then followed these murders by demanding that Lord Jon Arryn execute his former wards, Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark.  Page 127

I have my problems with Sansa but at least she understood The North better than anyone else and used that to her advantage to win independence for The North.  She most likely benefited from whatever the 3YR chose to share with her too about Dany’s past.

 

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22 minutes ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

They were just trying to get justice without resorting to war IMO. From The World of Ice and Fire:  What followed Prince Rhaegar’s infamous abduction of Lyanna Stark was the ruin of House Targaryen.   The full depth of King Aery’s madness was subsequently revealed in his depraved actions against Lord Stark, his heir, and their supporters after they demanded redress for Rhaegar’s wrongs.   Instead of granting them fair hearing, King Aery’s had them brutally slain, then followed these murders by demanding that Lord Jon Arryn execute his former wards, Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark.  Page 127

I have my problems with Sansa but at least she understood The North better than anyone else and used that to her advantage to win independence for The North.  She most likely benefited from whatever the 3YR chose to share with her too about Dany’s past.

 

You think Bran and Sansa had a convo about Dany? That is something that would have been interesting to watch 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

The destruction of property and life that can be done with dragons and fire. 

You're joking right? Destruction of property, against an enemy whose goal is to exterminate the human race? :lmao::lmao:

You've forgot the noise: OMG these dragons are soooo loud when they kill zombies that want to kill us, it's a real nuisance, and they scare the children… This foreign whore and her army of colored savages are really annoying and… hey Rita don't let your sister speak to that female negro chamberlain, she's too pretty to be honest!!

Edited by Nowy Tends

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8 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

You're joking right? Destruction of property, against an enemy whose goal is to exterminate the human race? :lmao::lmao:

You've forgot the noise: OMG these dragons are soooo loud when they kill zombies that want to kill us, it's a real nuisance, and they scare the children… This foreign whore and her army are really annoying and… hey Rita don't let your sister speak to that negro chamberlain, she's too pretty to be honest!!

No. They are still the equivalent of WMDs and especially dangerous when under the control of a person (Dany) who you consider untrustworthy as the Starks did. Dany proved she was unworthy of their trust in Episode 5 and so the Starks were proven right.

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34 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

You think Bran and Sansa had a convo about Dany? That is something that would have been interesting to watch 

I think it is highly possible considering he is the 3YR and apparently told them some things about Littlefinger that I think only he would have known.  

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

Being friendly with Targarygens hadn’t worked out too well for the Starks in the past.  Rickard and Brandon Stark went south in good faith and Mad King Aerys rewarded them by burning them alive.  They probably knew she showed the Tarlys no mercy unless they kneeled down to her. You are right that Dany did help them defeat the NK which was a good move but they saw what destruction she was capable of during that experience and so remained not completely supportive of her to be their Queen.  Starks tend to be cold and frosty anyway to outsiders such as Alaric Stark was to Good Queen Alysanne. However, Queen Alysanne won them over with her charm and wit and became close to Alaric’s daughter. Dany should have stayed in WF for a while to let her troops and dragons rest and spend some time on gaining their trust and friendship.  Instead, she lusted for power and revenge against Cersei and in the long run lost Missandei, her dragons, and the faith and trust she needed from allies and the common folk to welcome and love her as a fair and merciful ruler. 

You don't really get to threaten the king and demand his son give back his girlfriend which wasn't yours to own lol. What ever their supposed reason it was completely disrespectful, ungrateful and honestly....completely unrealistic. After the battle Dany would be the most popular person in town, people would be worshiping her.

I think it's funny we're ignoring the fact there are hordes of literal savages(wildlings) with an extensive history of actually attacking the northern communities and they got treated better in spite of being completely worthless during the battle.    

Edited by Techmaester

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Daenerys' plan: to have soul-sucking chemistry with Jon, to have the most laughable, melodramatic death scene on TV, and to have the worst dialogue, all at the same time.

"This is our reason.. It has been from the beginning, since you were a little boy with a bastard's name and I was a little girl who couldn't count to 20."

My ears are bleeding.

 

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11 hours ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

They were just trying to get justice without resorting to war IMO. From The World of Ice and Fire:  What followed Prince Rhaegar’s infamous abduction of Lyanna Stark was the ruin of House Targaryen.   The full depth of King Aery’s madness was subsequently revealed in his depraved actions against Lord Stark, his heir, and their supporters after they demanded redress for Rhaegar’s wrongs.   Instead of granting them fair hearing, King Aery’s had them brutally slain, then followed these murders by demanding that Lord Jon Arryn execute his former wards, Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark.  Page 127

I have my problems with Sansa but at least she understood The North better than anyone else and used that to her advantage to win independence for The North.  She most likely benefited from whatever the 3YR chose to share with her too about Dany’s past.

 

Brandon rode into the Red Keep and wanted to fight Rhaegar, shouting "Come out and die". There's better ways to try and get justice then doing what Brandon did. What Sansa understand was Dany was never going to give the North the independence Sansa wanted for the North. She used Jon/Aegon secret to get what she wanted, not knowing the North better then anyone else imo. I don't mind Sansa becoming Queen of the North in the end (for the show at least) but I don't like how she went about it.

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2 hours ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

Brandon rode into the Red Keep and wanted to fight Rhaegar, shouting "Come out and die". There's better ways to try and get justice then doing what Brandon did. What Sansa understand was Dany was never going to give the North the independence Sansa wanted for the North. She used Jon/Aegon secret to get what she wanted, not knowing the North better then anyone else imo. I don't mind Sansa becoming Queen of the North in the end (for the show at least) but I don't like how she went about it.

Oh, I agree with you about Sansa.  Keeping secret that she had sent for the Vale plus breaking her promise to Jon about his parentage really irritated me but I suppose that means she was a good political player.  I really would like to see how things turned out in 10 years or more.  A lot could change if you use your imagination.

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15 hours ago, Techmaester said:

You don't really get to threaten the king and demand his son give back his girlfriend which wasn't yours to own lol. What ever their supposed reason it was completely disrespectful, ungrateful and honestly....completely unrealistic. After the battle Dany would be the most popular person in town, people would be worshiping her.

I think it's funny we're ignoring the fact there are hordes of literal savages(wildlings) with an extensive history of actually attacking the northern communities and they got treated better in spite of being completely worthless during the battle.    

We get it. You hate the North. You hate the Starks. You hate the First Men. You hate tradition. You hate honestly, honor, and goodness.

But the constant bashing is incredibly annoying. Can't you just lay off?

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4 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

We get it. You hate the North. You hate the Starks. You hate the First Men. You hate tradition. You hate honestly, honor, and goodness.

But the constant bashing is incredibly annoying. Can't you just lay off?

Coming from the person who wrote “We always knew that Bran would be king. That’s because his wolf’s name told us exactly what he would become ”  these statements are rather unconvincing.

I cheered for the Starks (on this forum) from Season 1 until the show made them Lannister's, or worse… I wish it had been different.

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Again. This was never about sticking with a 'team'. Sh*t got real. People had to make hard choices and more often than not, we saw characters make stupid mistakes. As people do. Even the idiocy of GoT didn't completely erase that from GRRM'S characters.

Did I think Jon had any choice but let the folks from Beyond the Wall cross it? Well, of course not. But was it fair to, for example, the Umbers?

Oh but we hate the Umbers, right? They worked against the Starks!

Well, sure they did. What had the Starks cost them? Can we talk about Tormund? We have actual giants in this story, but can we at least admit his little 'story' while everyone was counting down to their 'leap of faith' type battle? It was bad.

For ten points, what was the 'Free folk's' preferred activity south of the wall? Which is the first tiny fortress on the awesome map thingy during the intro? What is their sigil?

Despite all this, Jon did the right thing. Better they be on the side of the living than bulk up the number of wights. But can we all agree there are no saints in this story? Just pretty damn imperfect people, various levels of screwed in the head actually, making choices when confronted with the end of the world and the end of 'their' world?

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