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RYShh

What were Daenerys's plans for Jon in the long term?

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Posted (edited)

Considering that she was not going to kill him unlike Tyrion and Arya believed. Jon was the Warden of the North, and he had no business in KL and in the Southern Kingdoms, yet she says;
 

Quote

 

Daenerys: Because I know what is good. And so do you.

Jon: - I don't. -

Daenerys: You do. You do. You've always known.

Jon: What about everyone else? All the other people who think they know what's good.

Daenerys: They don't get to choose. Be with me. Build the new world with me. This is our reason. It has been from the beginning, since you were a little boy with a bastard's name and I was a little girl who couldn't count to 20. We do it together.

 

What do you understand from ''be with me'' and ''build the new world with me''? Is that just a figure of speech or did she want him at her side hanging around like Jorah and Daario were, or was she going to make him a council member or even Hand of the Queen?

Edited by RYShh

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Posted (edited)

You’ve seen Aladdin haven’t you?

I think she’s entirely sincere about wanting it to be him and her against the world.

 

Edited by Tyrion1991

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3 hours ago, RYShh said:

Considering that she was not going to kill him unlike Tyrion and Arya believed. Jon was the Warden of the North, and he had no business in KL and in the Southern Kingdoms, yet she says;
 

What do you understand from ''be with me'' and ''build the new world with me''? Is that just a figure of speech or did she want him at her side hanging around like Jorah and Daario were, or was she going to make him a council member or even Hand of the Queen?

She wants to share power and her bed with him.

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It was clear she wanted to marry him and have them jointly go on campaign of reformation continuing the Targaryen legacy.

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1 minute ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

Honestly.....when Dany said that to Jon my mind flashed back to Darth Vader inviting Luke to join him and they could rule the galaxy together.  I knew she had truly gone to the dark side then...lol.

Yea, that occurred to me too. Her whole Westerosi Hitler speech just made it that much more obvious she was axe-crazy. I for one don't think she wouldn't have eventually gone full bananas and accused Jon or something.....

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1 minute ago, TheNecromancerofMirkwood said:

Yea, that occurred to me too. Her whole Westerosi Hitler speech just made it that much more obvious she was axe-crazy. I for one don't think she wouldn't have eventually gone full bananas and accused Jon or something.....

Daenerys would have eventually tried to eliminate Jon because the seeds of jealousy and paranoia had already taken root.  He just took her out first.  One of them was going to die sooner or later.

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22 minutes ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

Daenerys would have eventually tried to eliminate Jon because the seeds of jealousy and paranoia had already taken root.  He just took her out first.  One of them was going to die sooner or later.

We don't know that. We don't have any idea what she would do long term on account of her being murdered by him. They could have at least done a time skip into the future to "prove" how evil she would rule but they didn't. 

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5 minutes ago, Techmaester said:

We don't know that. We don't have any idea what she would do long term on account of her being murdered by him. They could have at least done a time skip into the future to "prove" how evil she would rule but they didn't. 

It was either murder her or take a chance on her murdering his family and him.She had proved her unpredictability when she decided to burn all the innocents in Kings Landing after the surrender.   Too much at stake to trust that she might change.  Jon made the right decision.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

It was either murder her or take a chance on her murdering his family and him.She had proved her unpredictability when she decided to burn all the innocents in Kings Landing after the surrender.   Too much at stake to trust that she might change.  Jon made the right decision.

Too much at stake I agree - like killing his closest relative and the end of his bloodline or the reformation of the kingdom into his ideals. It's too big an opportunity to pass up. But again I'm sure we would have fundamentally different perspectives so arguing about what's right won't really lead anywhere.   

Edited by Techmaester

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, RYShh said:

Considering that she was not going to kill him unlike Tyrion and Arya believed. Jon was the Warden of the North, and he had no business in KL and in the Southern Kingdoms, yet she says;
 

What do you understand from ''be with me'' and ''build the new world with me''? Is that just a figure of speech or did she want him at her side hanging around like Jorah and Daario were, or was she going to make him a council member or even Hand of the Queen?

Its the same as 'So be with me. Be my wife. Be the Lady of Storm's End'. She is asking him to do something against his nature.  She has made it clear that building this new world will be more of the destruction of Kings Landing. Its a crusade of death, wiping the slate clean

Edited by AryaNymeriaVisenya

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2 minutes ago, Techmaester said:

Too much at stake I agree - like killing his closest relative and the end of his bloodline or the reformation of the kingdom into his ideals. It's too big an opportunity to pass up. But again I'm sure would have fundamentally different perspectives so arguing about what's right won't really lead anywhere.   

Jon was raised a Stark and identified with them.  It was never shown that being a Targaryen was some transformative moment for him or that he wanted to enter the realm of politics and power to reform Westeros as you put it.   The Targaryen bloodline was already dead because Dany was barren and so Jon did not end it by killing her.  I agree we see things differently particularly in how we interpret a character’s psyche and motivation to behave the way they do.

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24 minutes ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

Jon was raised a Stark and identified with them.  It was never shown that being a Targaryen was some transformative moment for him or that he wanted to enter the realm of politics and power to reform Westeros as you put it.   The Targaryen bloodline was already dead because Dany was barren and so Jon did not end it by killing her.  I agree we see things differently particularly in how we interpret a character’s psyche and motivation to behave the way they do.

To repeat the Tyrions statement - we don't know for sure. He could have given it a good go, maybe him being Targaryen would have made a difference.

Obviously we can only speculate but being raised something doesn't mean you will embrace, even more so considering the circumstances. His parents didn't abandon him, his father was literally killed(in part to protect him I am sure) and his mother died in child birth. It's not really like finding out your ancestry after being put up for adoption.  

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6 hours ago, RYShh said:

Considering that she was not going to kill him unlike Tyrion and Arya believed. Jon was the Warden of the North, and he had no business in KL and in the Southern Kingdoms, yet she says;
 

What do you understand from ''be with me'' and ''build the new world with me''? Is that just a figure of speech or did she want him at her side hanging around like Jorah and Daario were, or was she going to make him a council member or even Hand of the Queen?

My thoughts were she wanted them to be married and conquer/rule the world side by side.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Techmaester said:

Too much at stake I agree - like killing his closest relative and the end of his bloodline or the reformation of the kingdom into his ideals.

Nobody cares about that fairytale and comic-book stuff. Sheesh.

We know what Jon cared about, and he showed it with his actions. He cared about the realms of men — all of them, including the wildlings. He cared about the burned children. He cared about his family — his real family, the one he was brought up with. 

Like he said, he's not all Fire and Blood. This is the point.

Edited by CrypticWeirwood

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3 hours ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

Jon was raised a Stark and identified with them.  It was never shown that being a Targaryen was some transformative moment for him or that he wanted to enter the realm of politics and power to reform Westeros as you put it.   The Targaryen bloodline was already dead because Dany was barren and so Jon did not end it by killing her. 

Remember that Jon was also raised as a fire wight. As we know from his answer to Arya asking how he survived a knife to the heart, he didn't.

His mortal wounds have never healed. Remember Dany staring at those? He's a dead man walking. A fire wight, a constructed creature of the Lord of the Light.  His children would probably have been shadowbabies.

We sure don't want any more shadowbabies. Those guys are the worst! The last one slew the shadowbaby's own uncle, you know, and that shadowbaby was Jon's cousin to boot.

Oh maybe that's what happened. Melisandre raised both the shadowbaby and Jon through the power of her god. Maybe that's the red god's price. Those raised by him have avunculicidal tendencies: first Renly then Dany. 

Makes sense in a wicked sort of way.

 

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Nobody cares about that fairytale and comic-book stuff. Sheesh.

We know what Jon cared about, and he showed it with his actions. He cared about the realms of men — all of them, including the wildlings. He cared about the burned children. He cared about his family — his real family, the one he was brought up with. 

Like he said, he's not all Fire and Blood. This is the point.

Nobody cares....in the show everyone cares, in real life it was the same in the past. 

Having your father killed and being kidnapped and lied to about your heritage doesn't make the people you grew up with your "real family", it's a ridiculous argument and is Stockholm Syndrome like. The question is if anyone would realistically make Jons choice and I have a hard time seeing it. I wouldn't nor would most honest people - particularly ones with any degree of ambition in their lives or who feel loyalty to their ancestors efforts. To be blunt watching the butchering of Lannisters probably would have made me incredibly happy considering what happened. Obviously we're not Jon but he hanged a 12 year old so we know it's in him. 

Edited by Techmaester

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9 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

We sure don't want any more shadowbabies. Those guys are the worst! The last one slew the shadowbaby's own uncle, you know, and that shadowbaby was Jon's cousin to boot.

Heavens NO!  Just reading your comment gave me the shivers.  Frankly, I had never thought about this till you brought it up.  Nightmarish stuff.

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