I just finished the GOT books!

[Areisius]

I now see how much that D&D cut out and how they copied and pasted character story lines and attached them to other characters (Arya, Sansa etc) and I can say with confidence that there is absolutely nothing in the books that allude to Daenerys being crazy.  Nothing.

[Lollygag]

Congrats on finishing the books!

~51:00. It's a quite common view on the forum that Dany's last chapter in ADWD really pointed to mental instability. Listening to your inner Viserys is a bad sign and the show really channeled Viserys in season 8. 

 

 

Also, part of Dany is strongly compelled to plant trees (she's half Blackwood/old gods/weirwoody - eh), and her other half is planting no trees/burning them down. It's a bit split personality or the makings of a psychic break or something. It's the house with the red door vs fire & blood. She's being pulled in two unreconcilable directions and to choose fire and blood is to deny a huge part of herself.

In the show, we saw Dany with dragon wings. Kill the boy girl, let the man dragon be born. 

 

ADWD Daenerys X

"It is such a long way," she complained. "I was tired, Jorah. I was weary of war. I wanted to rest, to laugh, to plant trees and see them grow. I am only a young girl."

No. You are the blood of the dragon. The whispering was growing fainter, as if Ser Jorah were falling farther behind. Dragons plant no trees. Remember that. Remember who you are, what you were made to be. Remember your words.

"Fire and Blood," Daenerys told the swaying grass.

 

 

[dannyk65]

She was sick and hallucinating and peeing outta her butt - kind of an inappropriate time for armchair psychologists to diagnose her mental stability, no?  We simply won't know until more books come out.  

[Areisius]

1 hour ago, dannyk65 said:

She was sick and hallucinating and peeing outta her butt - kind of an inappropriate time for armchair psychologists to diagnose her mental stability, no?  We simply won't know until more books come out.  

Exactly. 

[dannyk65]

To be convinced she's batshit in the books at this point seems similarly irresponsible and amateurish to what the show did with her.

[sifth]

She crucified 63 Great Masters in the second book, without even taking the time to investigate which ones were responsible for the kids and which weren't.

 

Yea, she's perfectly stable.

[divica]

20 minutes ago, dannyk65 said:

To be convinced she's batshit in the books at this point seems similarly irresponsible and amateurish to what the show did with her.

I don t think most people think she will go crazy.

But a lot of things point towards she becoming cruel. That she won t be welcomed in westeros because of the dothriaki and faegon having already won the targ loyalists...

It isn t strange that she will become enemies with the westerosi… 

But her becoming the worst character in asoiaf? That is crazy… She and jon falling in love so just that jon has to kill her because she is a monster? that is stupid, has too many similarities with ygrette and it is too much of a tragedy for me...

[Areisius]

This shows how malnourished and dehydrated she was that she was seeing and hearing things. It also shows how Dany was so sad that her dragon had killed a little girl that she chained up 2 of her dragons in order to prevent them doing the same thing or worse. This one instance that proves she is not crazy and has empathy for the innocent. 

“Drogon killed a little girl. Her name was … her name …” Dany could not recall the child’s name. That made her so sad that she would have cried if all her tears had not been burned away. “I will never have a little girl. I was the Mother of Dragons.”

Aye, the grass said, but you turned against your children. Her belly was empty, her feet sore and blistered, and it seemed to her that the cramping had grown worse. Her guts were full of writhing snakes biting at her bowels. She scooped up a handful of mud and water in trembling hands.

[Lollygag]

2 hours ago, dannyk65 said:

She was sick and hallucinating and peeing outta her butt - kind of an inappropriate time for armchair psychologists to diagnose her mental stability, no?  We simply won't know until more books come out.  

Those aren't armchair psychologists. It's a Westeros.org video and their names are on The World of Ice and Fire along with GRRM's.

[Raebo]

10 hours ago, Areisius said:

I now see how much that D&D cut out and how they copied and pasted character story lines and attached them to other characters (Arya, Sansa etc) and I can say with confidence that there is absolutely nothing in the books that allude to Daenerys being crazy.  Nothing.

The conversation with the grass shows her inner turmoil and exhaustion.  Protecting the innocent or freeing her children, the dragons.  Yes, what was the very last thing she says to the grass when it asks who she is?  FIRE AND BLOOD!!!  

The show does a very poor job of showing this inner turmoil.

[Areisius]

35 minutes ago, sifth said:

She crucified 63 Great Masters in the second book, without even taking the time to investigate which ones were responsible for the kids and which weren't.

 

Yea, she's perfectly stable.

You guys again continue to hold Dany to different standards and bran her crazy for her decisions in times of war. She has done nothing close to these monsters.

Tywin Lannister:

Orders the gang rape of his Tyrion's child wife Tysha.

Ordered Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch to murder Elia Martell and her 2 children, Rhaenys and Aegon Targaryen, during the Sack of King’s Landing.

Ordered the massacre of Robb Stark, his mother, pregnant wife Talisa and his banner-men at the Red Wedding.

 

Cersei Lannister (the actual Mad Queen)

Murdered her childhood friend by pushing her in a well. 

She aborts King Robert’s one legitimate heir. 

She gives women to Qyburn to “experiment” on.

Cersei ordered Ned to kill Arya's direwolf.

Orderd Qyburn blow up the sept killing her enemies and innocent citizens.

 

Tyrion Lannister:

Orders Bronn to murder, chop up and cook Symon Silver Tongue in a stew. He later jokes about the murder, saying that he likes to refer to the greasy dish served by the shop, known colloquially as “a bowl of brown”, as “singer’s stew”.

Murders Shae.

Assaults and rapes a young slave girl.

 

Those are just some of the characters that have down horrendous things in the book/show and are never mentioned like Dany is when it comes to crimes.

 

[Areisius]

18 minutes ago, Raebo said:

The conversation with the grass shows her inner turmoil and exhaustion.  Protecting the innocent or freeing her children, the dragons.  Yes, what was the very last thing she says to the grass when it asks who she is?  FIRE AND BLOOD!!!  

The show does a very poor job of showing this inner turmoil.

She is not a monster.

[Areisius]

5 hours ago, Lollygag said:

Congrats on finishing the books!

~51:00. It's a quite common view on the forum that Dany's last chapter in ADWD really pointed to mental instability. Listening to your inner Viserys is a bad sign and the show really channeled Viserys in season 8. 

 

 

Also, part of Dany is strongly compelled to plant trees (she's half Blackwood/old gods/weirwoody - eh), and her other half is planting no trees/burning them down. It's a bit split personality or the makings of a psychic break or something. It's the house with the red door vs fire & blood. She's being pulled in two unreconcilable directions and to choose fire and blood is to deny a huge part of herself.

In the show, we saw Dany with dragon wings. Kill the boy girl, let the man dragon be born. 

 

ADWD Daenerys X

"It is such a long way," she complained. "I was tired, Jorah. I was weary of war. I wanted to rest, to laugh, to plant trees and see them grow. I am only a young girl."

No. You are the blood of the dragon. The whispering was growing fainter, as if Ser Jorah were falling farther behind. Dragons plant no trees. Remember that. Remember who you are, what you were made to be. Remember your words.

"Fire and Blood," Daenerys told the swaying grass.

 

 

None of that points to her committing mass murder. She is not capable of doing that because as showed in the books and the show she has a strong conscious.

 

Murdered. Though his lips never moved, somehow she could hear his voice, whispering in her ear. You never mourned me, sister. It is hard to die unmourned.

“I loved you once.”

Once, he said, so bitterly it made her shudder. You were supposed to be my wife, to bear me children with silver hair and purple eyes, to keep the blood of the dragon pure. I took care of you. I taught you who you were. I fed you. I sold our mother’s crown to keep you fed.

“You hurt me. You frightened me.”

Only when you woke the dragon. I loved you. “You sold me. You betrayed me.”

No. You were the betrayer. You turned against me, against your own blood.They cheated me. Your horsey husband and his stinking savages. They were cheats and liars. They promised me a golden crown and gave me this. He touched the molten gold that was creeping down his face, and smoke rose from his finger.

 

I put in bold what Dany's responses to her brother in her dream. As you can see she tried her best to help her brother but all he did was physically and mentally abused her. 

 

Notice this is a dream she is having while starved and dehydrated yet she still retains her common sense.

[Lollygag]

12 minutes ago, Areisius said:

None of that points to her committing mass murder. She is not capable of doing that because as showed in the books and the show she has a strong conscious.

 

Murdered. Though his lips never moved, somehow she could hear his voice, whispering in her ear. You never mourned me, sister. It is hard to die unmourned. 

“I loved you once.”

Once, he said, so bitterly it made her shudder. You were supposed to be my wife, to bear me children with silver hair and purple eyes, to keep the blood of the dragon pure. I took care of you. I taught you who you were. I fed you. I sold our mother’s crown to keep you fed.

“You hurt me. You frightened me.”

Only when you woke the dragon. I loved you. “You sold me. You betrayed me.”

No. You were the betrayer. You turned against me, against your own blood.They cheated me. Your horsey husband and his stinking savages. They were cheats and liars. They promised me a golden crown and gave me this. He touched the molten gold that was creeping down his face, and smoke rose from his finger.

 

I put in bold what Dany's responses to her brother in her dream. As you can see she tried her best to help her brother but all he did was physically and mentally abused her.  

 

Notice this is a dream she is having while starved and dehydrated yet she still retains her common sense.

I didn't put it up as evidence of her committing mass murder. It was put up as the beginnings of mental instability. Where it goes and how far? We'll have to wait and see. But it is there. Somehow I doubt we'll be getting anything like Hitler Dany, though. 

And this shows that she's deeply conflicted over Viserys. After Drago killed him, we never saw Dany think about Viserys or process what happened be it just his death, or that the older brother who raised her (ugh) easy as pie turned about and threatened to kill her, or that she was torn between loyalty to her blood family and her heritage and her husband. That's a warning sign in itself. That's some hard core repression and that it's only rising now when she's so sick...that's not healthy. Again we'll have to wait to see, but I saw this potentially turning into sympathetic guilt, meaning Dany would take on Viserys' cause and his ways as a way of resolving her repressed mixed feelings. The show reinforced this as this looks to be exactly what Dany did. 

[Raebo]

1 hour ago, Areisius said:

She is not a monster.

Agree she is not a monster.  I would not describe anyone with a mental breakdown while trying trying to do something good as a monster but this does show her inner turmoil.  Where GRRM takes this I do not know but the show suggests where it is going.  And Dany is one of my favorite characters and I feel pity for her if this is where Martin takes her.

[NymeriaWarriorQueen]

13 hours ago, Areisius said:

I now see how much that D&D cut out and how they copied and pasted character story lines and attached them to other characters (Arya, Sansa etc) and I can say with confidence that there is absolutely nothing in the books that allude to Daenerys being crazy.  Nothing.

She is obsessed in the books with taking the Iron Throne and believing she has an inherent right to it. She talks of burning cities and she enacts acts of cruelty when folks don’t bend to her will. She has dragons which are essentially WMDS. There is often a fine line between good and evil and balanced versus crazy.  All it will take is losing her advisors who helped ground her against her worst impulses, grief over losing a dragon, another Targ heir and feeling isolated for her to give in to fear, paranoia and hatred which undoubtably will unleash her to go full Fire and Blood.  Is is disillusioning to discover that a character you were lead to think would be the benevolent savior of the world is not ultimately that way. The realization is jarring and is the same kind of dilemma Jon faced in the show.....accepting the truth of who Daenerys really is. This is exactly the kind of story GRRM would write.

[Kajjo]

14 hours ago, Areisius said:

how they copied and pasted character story lines and attached them to other characters (Arya, Sansa

That's true. The Arya/Jeyne Pool story line and several of Sansa plots are changed. From my view, she show did this in a great way and condensed the important plots into less characters. The show has very many characters anyway, compared to other shows.

The Lady Stoneheart plot is omitted altogether. This is more questionable, but it worked out, I believe.

14 hours ago, Areisius said:

 I can say with confidence that there is absolutely nothing in the books that allude to Daenerys being crazy

What about Daenerys being violent and threatens to burn down cities and crush stone houses, kill men in iron?

I believe too many focus on terms like "mad, crazy" instead of analysing how prone to violence and brutality Daenerys was. The books give enough clues to Daenerys resorting to "burning, destroying" as favorite means of action. Only that advisors can talk her oout of it, same as in the series.

 

[CrypticWeirwood]

13 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

I believe too many focus on terms like "mad, crazy" instead of analysing how prone to violence and brutality Daenerys was. The books give enough clues to Daenerys resorting to "burning, destroying" as favorite means of action. Only that advisors can talk her out of it, same as in the series.

You're exactly right. The road to Maegor the Cruel is paved with fire and blood, and it was this very path that Dany has increasingly trodden.

[elanmorin]

2 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

You're exactly right. The road to Maegor the Cruel is paved with fire and blood, and it was this very path that Dany has increasingly trodden.

 

3 hours ago, Kajjo said:

What about Daenerys being violent and threatens to burn down cities and crush stone houses, kill men in iron?

I believe too many focus on terms like "mad, crazy" instead of analysing how prone to violence and brutality Daenerys was. The books give enough clues to Daenerys resorting to "burning, destroying" as favorite means of action. Only that advisors can talk her oout of it, same as in the series.

 

It's funnny how defending yourself and those who can't defend themselves gets framed into simply "being violent" when it comes to Daenerys. In the books Dany did exactly what she had to do, no more no less. She does things she doesn't want to (like marriage in Mereen...) trying to preserve peace, at every turn people betray her and kill those dear to her or the people she's sworn to protect. THEN she reacts.

She often tries to do things without shedding blood but her enemies simply can't leave her alone and she is forced to use violence. Try to imagine how someone like Tywin would have acted in Dany's place... he would have been proactive instead than reactive, which would have meant a lot more death in the end. But no, thanks to 3 episodes of the TV series now there's people who convinced themselves Dany always was a mad tyrant.

Dany's a dragon, she can defend herself and she will defend herself, but for some people even that seems to be too much which is baffling to me.

[sifth]

10 hours ago, Areisius said:

You guys again continue to hold Dany to different standards and bran her crazy for her decisions in times of war. She has done nothing close to these monsters.

Tywin Lannister:

Orders the gang rape of his Tyrion's child wife Tysha.

Ordered Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch to murder Elia Martell and her 2 children, Rhaenys and Aegon Targaryen, during the Sack of King’s Landing.

Ordered the massacre of Robb Stark, his mother, pregnant wife Talisa and his banner-men at the Red Wedding.

 

Cersei Lannister (the actual Mad Queen)

Murdered her childhood friend by pushing her in a well. 

She aborts King Robert’s one legitimate heir. 

She gives women to Qyburn to “experiment” on.

Cersei ordered Ned to kill Arya's direwolf.

Orderd Qyburn blow up the sept killing her enemies and innocent citizens.

 

Tyrion Lannister:

Orders Bronn to murder, chop up and cook Symon Silver Tongue in a stew. He later jokes about the murder, saying that he likes to refer to the greasy dish served by the shop, known colloquially as “a bowl of brown”, as “singer’s stew”.

Murders Shae.

Assaults and rapes a young slave girl.

 

Those are just some of the characters that have down horrendous things in the book/show and are never mentioned like Dany is when it comes to crimes.

 

Tywin is an evil man. Not sure when I ever said otherwise. Cersie is evil as well. Tyrion is a bit more grey, he's done some f'd up stuff, but has done some good as well. So basically your point fails quite hard, because I do hold Dany to the same standards as them