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Kaapstad

Did the writers confirm Jon’s ending?

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In the alternate ending which is almost the same as his one except it has Jorah coming out of the tunnel along with Tormund, the writers say that Jon is still a part of the Nights Watch. He is ranging to the Far North and he isn’t going to stay with the Wildlings. He doesn’t intend to marry or have kids and intends to keep his NW vows. This is seeming to be a very depressing ending for Jon :(

 

Thoughts?

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I can't feel too bad for this Jon who believed in Dany beyond all reason or sense, to the point where he thought his sisters would OBEY her even after she just burned half a million people to death. Then wonders if it was the right thing to do? 

I agree that it's a sad ending though for the books though. Someone compared it to Harry Potter going back inside the cupboard.

I'd rather he become the next King beyond the Wall.

Gosh, Jorah right there with him pisses me off. Is there any actual difference between these two characters? They're supposed to be FOILS. Not twinsies. Having Jorah protect her while Jon killed her was the OBVIOUS choice. They really must be hacks if it took them so long to figure out.

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On 6/2/2019 at 12:12 PM, Kaapstad said:

In the alternate ending which is almost the same as his one except it has Jorah coming out of the tunnel along with Tormund, the writers say that Jon is still a part of the Nights Watch. He is ranging to the Far North and he isn’t going to stay with the Wildlings. He doesn’t intend to marry or have kids and intends to keep his NW vows. This is seeming to be a very depressing ending for Jon :(

 

Thoughts?

That is my preferred ending for Jon. If he takes the Oath he should keep it. He isn’t Sam. I hate concept of him breaking his NW vow to become king beyond the wall. 

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1 hour ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

That is my preferred ending for Jon. If he takes the Oath he should keep it. He isn’t Sam. I hate concept of him breaking his NW vow to become king beyond the wall. 

Honestly I dont like either - and neither would Jon. But I at least want him to have some freedom instead of chained to a penal colony that doesn't even serve a purpose anymore, for the rest of his life.

Either way, Jon only ever wanted to be a Stark and to be Lord of Winterfell. Somehow they perverted this and shuffled him off to the Wall "where he belongs" (actual show summary)

Jon Snow's deepest wish: I would like to die like a true Stark

D&D: that's a good final end for Theon

 

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5 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I can't feel too bad for this Jon who believed in Dany beyond all reason or sense, to the point where he thought his sisters would OBEY her even after she just burned half a million people to death. Then wonders if it was the right thing to do? 

I agree that it's a sad ending though for the books though. Someone compared it to Harry Potter going back inside the cupboard.

I'd rather he become the next King beyond the Wall.

Gosh, Jorah right there with him pisses me off. Is there any actual difference between these two characters? They're supposed to be FOILS. Not twinsies. Having Jorah protect her while Jon killed her was the OBVIOUS choice. They really must be hacks if it took them so long to figure out.

 

‘Actually it could have been a positive ending for Jorah in a way though. Lord commander mormont’s final wish was to have Jorah join the NW. 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/3/2019 at 12:12 AM, Kaapstad said:

In the alternate ending which is almost the same as his one except it has Jorah coming out of the tunnel along with Tormund, the writers say that Jon is still a part of the Nights Watch. He is ranging to the Far North and he isn’t going to stay with the Wildlings. He doesn’t intend to marry or have kids and intends to keep his NW vows. This is seeming to be a very depressing ending for Jon :(

 

Thoughts?

Jorah surviving and wavering in this alternative ending would have been a bad ending in my mind. I  always saw him as the ultimate starry eyed lovestruck type, and that's why he got in so much trouble. He went into exile the first place because of selling poachers into slavery to fund his high maintenance ex wife Lynesse Hightower's expenses. Jorah making rational decisions when attractive women are concerned is not realistic in my mind. 

Edited by Br16

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On 6/2/2019 at 5:12 PM, Kaapstad said:

In the alternate ending which is almost the same as his one except it has Jorah coming out of the tunnel along with Tormund, the writers say that Jon is still a part of the Nights Watch. He is ranging to the Far North and he isn’t going to stay with the Wildlings. He doesn’t intend to marry or have kids and intends to keep his NW vows. This is seeming to be a very depressing ending for Jon :(

 

Thoughts?

 

I think its a depressing ending for most. 'None of it means anything if you're not with me'. That is the key line I took from season 8. Everyone is alone, scattered across the world from the people they love. The crown Sansa has, means nothing because it was meant to be about her family and she doesn't have one anymore. Arya on that boat, seems nice to travel but you are essentially on your own with hired staff, can you really be that happy never to see the people you love ever again? Bran is king but he doesn't even have a sense of self never mind family. Tyrion has lost all his family. Its grim and I'm not sure they intended for it to be as grim as it is. Superficially, that ending montage is a big fuck yeah moment but you think about it and the tone is just way off.

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7 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Honestly I dont like either - and neither would Jon. But I at least want him to have some freedom instead of chained to a penal colony that doesn't even serve a purpose anymore, for the rest of his life.

Either way, Jon only ever wanted to be a Stark and to be Lord of Winterfell. Somehow they perverted this and shuffled him off to the Wall "where he belongs" (actual show summary)

Jon Snow's deepest wish: I would like to die like a true Stark

D&D: that's a good final end for Theon

 

If I was writing it I would still have Jon abdicate the throne by taking some type of oath. You can’t walk around yelling I don’t want it but keep the rights to the claims. NW is the easiest way to give up the claims. Jon isn’t smart enough to be a maester(in the show). 

The only reason I’m ok with the NW ending Jon is that there’s always a Stark there. He’s the Benjen in the family now. And in my mind he will visit Winterfell like uncle Ben did. If Sansa has kids maybe he gets to be an uncle who visits and gets visited. 

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2 hours ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

Superficially, that ending montage is a big fuck yeah moment but you think about it and the tone is just way off.

I agree completely, and I think it missed the LOTR ending if thats what they were going for. GRRM apparently thinks the "sweet" part is just defeating the bad guys, and everyone gets to feel disconnected from the victory, like Frodo.

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25 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I agree completely, and I think it missed the LOTR ending if thats what they were going for. GRRM apparently thinks the "sweet" part is just defeating the bad guys, and everyone gets to feel disconnected from the victory, like Frodo.

Even in Lord of the Rings. Frodo is Frodo. He took the burden. His friends had good lives, got married, had families. Even Legolas and Gimli found companionship. Frodo and Bilbo bear the bitter and even then we feel they find peace. In this ending, most of the characters are in some way a Frodo and I can't help but feel that is too much. 

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2 hours ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

The only reason I’m ok with the NW ending Jon is that there’s always a Stark there. He’s the Benjen in the family now.

It seems fucked up in some ways though, that's where Catelyn wanted him to be and his younger, misguided self was convinced that its where he belonged. Cat really did win the game by him ending there.

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4 hours ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

 

I think its a depressing ending for most. 'None of it means anything if you're not with me'. That is the key line I took from season 8. Everyone is alone, scattered across the world from the people they love. The crown Sansa has, means nothing because it was meant to be about her family and she doesn't have one anymore. Arya on that boat, seems nice to travel but you are essentially on your own with hired staff, can you really be that happy never to see the people you love ever again? Bran is king but he doesn't even have a sense of self never mind family. Tyrion has lost all his family. Its grim and I'm not sure they intended for it to be as grim as it is. Superficially, that ending montage is a big fuck yeah moment but you think about it and the tone is just way off.

Exactly. I am not sure why people treat it like a Harry Potter epilogue. The undertones are grim and sad underneath it all. It appears a Disney ending on the surface if you take it at face value. But the strikes are there. Jon will, if the executive producer is correct, will never ever visit his family again but remain in exile.

Sansa is being paralleled with Elizabeth with her hair and that may imply she stays single for the rest of her life because of all the sexual and psychological abuse she underwent. They isolated her even further by separating her from Brienne who stays at KL. There was no one to attend Sansa’s coronation. Say what you will about the Lannisters but they always stuck together. Jaime was present at Cersei’s coronation. They showed more family spirit than the Starks after all that "The lone wolf dies and the pack survives" lingo  

Arya and Jon got a very rude scene imo where she outright shows the middle finger to Jon who was trying to find a silver lining in all this by inviting her to visit. 

Brienne will also likely never marry again after being brutally turned down by Jamie who chooses Cersei over her. 

The only person who seems to have gotten a proper happily ever after ending seems to be Bronn. 

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57 minutes ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

Even in Lord of the Rings. Frodo is Frodo. He took the burden. His friends had good lives, got married, had families. Even Legolas and Gimli found companionship. Frodo and Bilbo bear the bitter and even then we feel they find peace. In this ending, most of the characters are in some way a Frodo and I can't help but feel that is too much. 

And if I recall correctly Frodo leaves with Gandalf, Celebron, Galadriel, Elrond. That’s a pretty big list of familiars to accompany him. There is no one accompanying Jon from his family or friends apart from Tormund. 

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5 hours ago, Kaapstad said:

And if I recall correctly Frodo leaves with Gandalf, Celebron, Galadriel, Elrond. That’s a pretty big list of familiars to accompany him. There is no one accompanying Jon from his family or friends apart from Tormund. 

Tolkien said, in one of his letters, that Frodo's journey to Tol Eressëa was purgatorial but not penal. Jon's ending, on the other hand, is in no uncertain terms penal. He got thrown under the bus while everyone else got at least an ending that wasn't depressing AF. This was literally NOT a bittersweet ending.

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I really don't believe there is any other appropriate ending for Jon Snow.  By enlisting Daeneyrs, he was able to save Westros (and the world) from the NightKing and the WhiteWalkers.  He helped give his world life instead of death.  Jon was extremely damaged.  Damaged by the treatment of Catelyn Stark.  Damaged by the loss of Ygrette.  Damaged by the portion of the Night's Watch that turned against him for making a pact with the Wildings.  Finally damaged by what he had to do to Daenerys.  A queen he believed in, but in the end a queen that went too far and was ready to go further.    Jon was ready to die in the flames of Drogon.  He was spared there.  He does have value in the North, ranging to protect the wildings and free folk and yes, the South from what lies beyond. 

I think the ending was meant to be bitter for this generation.  The generation that defeated death.......I can't wait to read GRRM on this!!!

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I think we got the LOTR movie ending comapred to the LOTR book ending.

More or less the same thing, but presented in a much happier tone.

Most characters did get a bittersweet/sad ending, but the show did an awful job at portraying this so it looks like they all got cheesy Disney endings. Actually, the show did a terrible job at portraying trauma in general in the latter seasons. They wanted everybody to be a stoic badass and/or comic relief. 

For Jon, him being alone and miserable ranging in the far north makes sense. Killing Dany (regardless of how it happens) will be the final straw in breaking him.

I also doubt both Ghost and Tormund survive in the books, and I doubt the Others will be eradicated like they were in the show, so him sticking to his NW vows will make some sense beyond “he’s so honorable”.

Also if Sansa and Bran are blatantly using/manipulating/betraying him in the books the way they did the show, then I doubt he ends on good terms with them. 

My only hope at this point, is for it to be his choice (not a punishment), and for him to take Lightbringer with him so he’s alone but not alone-alone. Otherwise that’s a crazy unsatisfying hero’s journey.

 

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On 6/4/2019 at 7:28 AM, Kaapstad said:

The only person who seems to have gotten a proper happily ever after ending seems to be Bronn. 

I know! What the hell is that??? 

It's all so unsatisfying. A "Disney" ending would have the Starks all together at Winterfell at least. 

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On 6/5/2019 at 2:43 AM, King Wyman said:

I think we got the LOTR movie ending comapred to the LOTR book ending.

More or less the same thing, but presented in a much happier tone.

Most characters did get a bittersweet/sad ending, but the show did an awful job at portraying this so it looks like they all got cheesy Disney endings. Actually, the show did a terrible job at portraying trauma in general in the latter seasons. They wanted everybody to be a stoic badass and/or comic relief. 

For Jon, him being alone and miserable ranging in the far north makes sense. Killing Dany (regardless of how it happens) will be the final straw in breaking him.

I also doubt both Ghost and Tormund survive in the books, and I doubt the Others will be eradicated like they were in the show, so him sticking to his NW vows will make some sense beyond “he’s so honorable”.

Also if Sansa and Bran are blatantly using/manipulating/betraying him in the books the way they did the show, then I doubt he ends on good terms with them. 

My only hope at this point, is for it to be his choice (not a punishment), and for him to take Lightbringer with him so he’s alone but not alone-alone. Otherwise that’s a crazy unsatisfying hero’s journey.

 

Sansa and Bran did not manipulate him. I would say Dany did by seducing him into bending the knee. He was just a complete dolt when it came to Dany. Had he listened to Sansa or asked her before bringing Dany along, none of this mess would have happened. 

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On 6/4/2019 at 5:03 PM, hokie3457 said:

I really don't believe there is any other appropriate ending for Jon Snow.  By enlisting Daeneyrs, he was able to save Westros (and the world) from the NightKing and the WhiteWalkers.  He helped give his world life instead of death.  Jon was extremely damaged.  Damaged by the treatment of Catelyn Stark.  Damaged by the loss of Ygrette.  Damaged by the portion of the Night's Watch that turned against him for making a pact with the Wildings.  Finally damaged by what he had to do to Daenerys.  A queen he believed in, but in the end a queen that went too far and was ready to go further.    Jon was ready to die in the flames of Drogon.  He was spared there.  He does have value in the North, ranging to protect the wildings and free folk and yes, the South from what lies beyond. 

I think the ending was meant to be bitter for this generation.  The generation that defeated death.......I can't wait to read GRRM on this!!!

Protect the Wildlings and South from what exactly? There's no NK, WW or a undead army anymore. Cool he can go explore the Land of always winter now and freeze his balls off, for the rest of his life.

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4 minutes ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

Protect the Wildlings and South from what exactly? There's no NK, WW or a undead army anymore. Cool he can go explore the Land of always winter now and freeze his balls off, for the rest of his life.

The new big bad that he somehow awakens like they seem to do on Supernatural. Seriously though most of the wildlings were kids so I would say protect them from bears and shit. 

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