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LadyOfCastamere

Is the hound Sansa's 'new direwolf'?

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Hey there :)

I'm a relatively new fan (compared to a lot of fans who know the series for over 20 years) so please excuse me if my question is stupid or has been asked before. I just finished AFFC and just dived in ADWD.

What struck me before is how Sansa is the first (and so far only one I think) who lost her direwolf Lady and could not yet develop any warg abilities. The other Starks appeared to be capable of warging, though only Bran does it consciously. However, it seems possible that Sansa can as well if there was a solid connection and she wanted to (and perhaps knew how to).

So far so good. Now what lead me on this path was the prologue from the POV of Varamyr Sixskins. He said that Jon has a profound warging ability, but isn't pursuing it. If Jon's ability is considered strong, then there is reason to believe his siblings/cousins are similar. On top of that, Varamyr mentions that warging a dog is basically as easy as slipping on a well-fitting shoe, so, basically, any warg should be able to do so.

This reminded me again of the connection Sansa shared with the hound and how he, similar to the direwolfs and their respected 'owners,' kept showing up when she's in need - like a replacement for Lady. 

Now, a common theory is that Sandor currently lives as the gravedigger on the Quiet Isle and that his alter ego, the Hound, died. We don't know how his personality changed, but I'm assuming he strayed from the path of violence and hate and wants to live a peaceful life as a commoner. What if he 'feels' though that Sansa is in danger and violence is needed to ensure her safety? Could she perhaps warg him and strike her enemies herself?
It reminded me of the prophecy of the Ghost of HH and how a maid will kill a titan, but I doubt Sansa could do this as a 13-year-old girl. It shouldn't be difficult for Sandor, though.

What's your take on this?

 

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1 hour ago, LadyOfCastamere said:

[Sansa] could not yet develop any warg abilities

So how would Sansa...

1 hour ago, LadyOfCastamere said:

perhaps warg him and strike her enemies herself?

Warging a direwolf is a lot easier than a human and with no idea that it is even possible how could Sansa do it?

If Sandor is not dead I believe he will play a role with one or both of the Stark girls, but he will not be warged by them.

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I agree with the posters responding to the OP, but I also like the symbolism the OP has picked up on. So while I don't see Sansa literally warging Sandor, it will be interesting if he turns up again when she is in need!

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6 hours ago, LadyOfCastamere said:


It reminded me of the prophecy of the Ghost of HH and how a maid will kill a titan, but I doubt Sansa could do this as a 13-year-old girl. It shouldn't be difficult for Sandor, though.

What's your take on this?

 

The Titan is often taken to be Littlefinger. In the Ghost' narrative the characters are referred to by their house sigils, and Baelish's is is the Titan of Braavos.

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I have this crazy hunch that Sansa and the Hound are going to end up married. Despite being the angriest man in the Seven Kingdoms, he always managed to be somewhat gentle or protective towards her. And Sansa's experiences with kings and high lords may have given her a healthy skepticism about them.

The Hound's time on the Quiet Isle will presumably heal his rage; and with his brother dead, he stands to inherit the family's keep. If he distinguishes himself in some battle or rescue, he could earn a knighthood. Then he'd be a landed knight, a suitable husband for a highborn lady.

EDIT: Come to think of it, if he inherits a keep, doesn't that make him a lord, even without a knighthood?

Edited by Aebram
Afterthought

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9 hours ago, Aebram said:

a suitable husband for a highborn lady.

The reason they will end up married is because he is not a suitable spouse for her status. Sansa's story is in large about her gaining autonomy over who she marries. And not being used as a commodity for high born lords to utilise for their own gain. 

 

 

As to warging him, No. But he is symbolically her dog now. And their stories are intertwined. She may well warg a Merlin though. 

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Why is it even necessary to warg Sandor when in the near future Alayne/Sansa will have Nymeria and ShggyDog at her beckon call.?

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No. Warging humans is very difficult. Sansa hasn't had the practice. She must learn other talents. Warging wont help her political manoeuvres. 

As for Sandor. I have to wonder if he'll ever be 'The Hound' again. Nobody should be a person's dog. And I don't believe Sandor ever enjoyed the role. Plus, Sandor is literally not playing the role of 'The Hound' anymore. Rorge picked up that mantle. And when Brienne kicked his ass, Lem was the one to take up the helm. 

Part of me wants Sandor to stay gone. He's been through enough. and I like the idea that he and Sansa just left their mark on one another. But I do think he'll return to the story. 

There's a huge question mark hanging over his head. Who is Sandor now? 

I think that the Faith of the Seven may bring these two together again. Though, I can't say how. 

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On 6/3/2019 at 11:23 AM, LadyOfCastamere said:

Hey there :)

I'm a relatively new fan (compared to a lot of fans who know the series for over 20 years) so please excuse me if my question is stupid or has been asked before. I just finished AFFC and just dived in ADWD.

Awesome. And welcome to the madness :devil:

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What struck me before is how Sansa is the first (and so far only one I think) who lost her direwolf Lady and could not yet develop any warg abilities. The other Starks appeared to be capable of warging, though only Bran does it consciously. However, it seems possible that Sansa can as well if there was a solid connection and she wanted to (and perhaps knew how to).

According to Martin, all of the Stark children have the skinchange/warg talent. Here is a report from a little while back. One thing to note (and bugs the shit out of me) is this report mixes around warg with skinchange. Warg is to a wolf or dog, skinchange is to other animals. This blurs that line a bit with Sansa because, as others have noted above, it is likely that Sansa will skinchange an animal of flight, a bird of prey more precisely. Arya is warging Nymeria even while across the sea, 'cuz that's what a Nymeria does ;). Jon is in a but of warg denial still, but that blue flower taking root and blooming from the wall is the teaser for his warg "flowering"... meaning any page now he will accept what he is and won't fight it anymore.

  • Trinoc*Con 8 (Durham, NC; August 3-5, 2007)

    Oh, George said all the Stark children of this generation were full Wargs. I thought they were like one shot Wargs and were only bonded to their wolves but no they can warg into just about anything. Bran is just the only one working on it.

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So far so good. Now what lead me on this path was the prologue from the POV of Varamyr Sixskins. He said that Jon has a profound warging ability, but isn't pursuing it. If Jon's ability is considered strong, then there is reason to believe his siblings/cousins are similar. On top of that, Varamyr mentions that warging a dog is basically as easy as slipping on a well-fitting shoe, so, basically, any warg should be able to do so.

This reminded me again of the connection Sansa shared with the hound and how he, similar to the direwolfs and their respected 'owners,' kept showing up when she's in need - like a replacement for Lady. 

Now, a common theory is that Sandor currently lives as the gravedigger on the Quiet Isle and that his alter ego, the Hound, died. We don't know how his personality changed, but I'm assuming he strayed from the path of violence and hate and wants to live a peaceful life as a commoner. What if he 'feels' though that Sansa is in danger and violence is needed to ensure her safety? Could she perhaps warg him and strike her enemies herself?

I see where you are going with this. There are some excellent Sansa posters on this forum (though not as frequently nowadays) One has already popped in here, @The Weirwoods Eyes and the other might ( @Blue-Eyed Wolf ) There are many others, but these two have written some very good essays and detailed posts on this matter.

Back to me seeing where you are going with this. Personally, no, I do not think Sansa will 'warg' Sandor, but there is a deep connection between them. Warging and skinchanging is a 'talent' given by the gods.

A Storm of Swords - Arya IV

"Well," said Arya, "not the way I do it."

"No? I have always found it so. The gods give each of us our little gifts and talents, and it is meant for us to use them, my aunt always says. Any act can be a prayer, if done as well as we are able. Isn't that a lovely thought? Remember that the next time you do your needlework. Do you work at it every day?"

Ok, gonna mention something from Martin's older works. Whisperjewels. I added the official definition below. I do not think Martin is directly adding the exact, direct form of whisperjewels from one of his literary worlds to this one, but he likes this concept as a literary device well enough that has does use it again in a new form. In this case, needlework applies to both Arya and Sansa the same, but different. They are 'etching' their memories into something personal. I think the cloak that Sansa has that came from Sandor back at the Battle of Blackwater is that whisperjewel (concept). Whisperjewels can be, and often are, used as a 'beacon' to call back the other half of the pair, as we see most explicitly in Martin's story Dying of the Light. Ghost is Jon's whisperjewel. Nymeria probably is to Arya, if it isn't Needle instead. Same with Shaggydog to Rickon. The weirwoods are the main whisperjewel to Bran. Anyway, I think that Sansa hanging on to this cloak, and dying it green (whisperjewels can change color with emotion), are all part of the clues that these two will reunite somehow in the nearish future.

  • whisperjewel. A crystal that has been psionically “etched” to retain certain emotions or thoughts, which are thereafter perceptible when the crystal is held by “resonant” or sympathetic minds. Any type of crystal may be fashioned into a whisperjewel, but certain kinds of gemstones retain the patterns far better than others. The strength and clarity of a whisperjewel may also vary with time, and with the degree of skill of the etching esper. The whisperjewels of Avalon are highly esteemed; Avalon has both a suitable base-crystal and a number of potent Talents. Some less developed worlds are reputed to produce even finer whisperjewels, but their products seldom find their way onto the interstellar market.

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It reminded me of the prophecy of the Ghost of HH and how a maid will kill a titan, but I doubt Sansa could do this as a 13-year-old girl. It shouldn't be difficult for Sandor, though.

What's your take on this?

Well, here I agree with what other posters have said; the Titan (of Braavos) is Petyr Baelish, aka, Uncle Creepyfinger.

Maybe to any of this, maybe not? Just my two cookies.

Edited by The Fattest Leech
Bad with the spelling, I am.

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On 6/3/2019 at 4:23 PM, LadyOfCastamere said:

What struck me before is how Sansa is the first (and so far only one I think) who lost her direwolf Lady and could not yet develop any warg abilities. The other Starks appeared to be capable of warging, though only Bran does it consciously. However, it seems possible that Sansa can as well if there was a solid connection and she wanted to (and perhaps knew how to)

As far as we know, slipping skins wasn't happening for any of the Starks at the time Lady died - it was just too early. And we can assume Sansa didn't experience any wolf dreams, at least of the bloodthirsty kind, because that would be disturbing enough to trouble her daytime thoughts.

The direwolves are much more than skinchanging and dreams though - they are supernaturally empathetic and co-operative, and they match temperament with their owners. Lady has already made this connection. Even after Lady's death, Sansa has moments of defiance and physical courage she never had before - so the wolf influence lives on.

On 6/3/2019 at 4:23 PM, LadyOfCastamere said:

This reminded me again of the connection Sansa shared with the hound and how he, similar to the direwolfs and their respected 'owners,' kept showing up when she's in need - like a replacement for Lady.

He rescued Loras from the Mountain too, before anyone else even thought of reacting. An elite bodyguard always has a good nose for trouble, no warging necessary. I don't think he's lost that - he might reject the crazy Hound mindset, but he also identifies simply as a dog ('my own dog now'). Dogs that are not hounds include Meribald's protector, Dog (peaceable and brave), and Pod's Hero.

Anyway, yes to the Lady-replacement idea. I'd even go further, and include Arya, who had to separate from Nymeria, and wished for a lion-killing dog.

In hindsight, Sandor might feel he let down both Stark girls pretty badly - his own conscience would make him want to fight again in their defence. Especially for Sansa, who has no fighting ability of her own (the giant will die of words, or love, or poison, or even fire - but not bloodshed. Not Sansa's style.)

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On 6/3/2019 at 9:23 AM, LadyOfCastamere said:

Now, a common theory is that Sandor currently lives as the gravedigger on the Quiet Isle and that his alter ego, the Hound, died. We don't know how his personality changed, but I'm assuming he strayed from the path of violence and hate and wants to live a peaceful life as a commoner. What if he 'feels' though that Sansa is in danger and violence is needed to ensure her safety? Could she perhaps warg him and strike her enemies herself?
It reminded me of the prophecy of the Ghost of HH and how a maid will kill a titan, but I doubt Sansa could do this as a 13-year-old girl. It shouldn't be difficult for Sandor, though.

What's your take on this?

While I expect Sansa to warg a creature, I don't think it will be Sandor,or any other human.  It would be way too difficult, especially for someone completely untrained

The creature Sansa is most associated with is birds (Sandor's "little bird").  She used a merlin, a kind of falcon, while hunting with the Tyrells, if I recall correctly.  Interestingly, the falcon is the sigil of the vale, her current location.  I think it would be a logical creature for her to warg.

I expect that we will see Sandor again, although I would guess it would take a perceived threat to Sansa, or possibly Arya, to pry him loose from the monastery.  I doubt he would care to use his fighting skills otherwise, and has no other reason to leave.

By the way, the Ghost of HH prophecy says the maid will "slay a savage giant in a castle built of snow."  The Titan could be a savage giant.   However, the Umber sigil is a savage giant, or it could be a literal savage giant such as Gregor Clegane or Wun Wun.  There is also the possibility that the savage giant is the doll Robrt Arryn used to destroy Sansa's model of Winterfell.  Lots of possibilities.  If it is a person, it will likely be either an execution or something a girl could do, such as poison or a push from a height.

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11 hours ago, Springwatch said:

As far as we know, slipping skins wasn't happening for any of the Starks at the time Lady died - it was just too early. And we can assume Sansa didn't experience any wolf dreams, at least of the bloodthirsty kind, because that would be disturbing enough to trouble her daytime thoughts.

Actually......there is some scanty evidence that she was having wolf dreams in AGOT which comes after Lady's death. I'm about to do the school run but will drag you the quotes out once I return. 

Also I'll pull out the stuff for skinchanging a Merlin.   

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Lady dies in Sansa's first POV chapter, so we never get to experience if she wolf dreams. However given that GRRM has stated she is a warg too; they all are, we can guess that she may have also already begun the bond. Here I've gathered together some post Lady's death moments when Sansa might have been re-living old wolf dreams in her sleep. 

AGOT Sansa III

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Sansa sat up. "Lady," she whispered. For a moment it was as if the direwolf was there in the room, looking at her with those golden eyes, sad and knowing. She had been dreaming, she realized. Lady was with her, and they were running together, and … and … trying to remember was like trying to catch the rain with her fingers. The dream faded, and Lady was dead again.

Here she has awoken from a dream and Lady was in it, she even sense her spirit as such in the room when she awakes. Lady was with her in her dream, and they were running together. Almost all the early wolf dreams involve the child in side the wolf whilst the wolf is running. This could simply be Sansa's immature logic-ing away of that factor, the she is Lady in the dreams, instead she says to herself she is with Lady. 

And then there is this in clash

ACOSK Sansa II

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By the time she reached the godswood, the noises had faded to a faint rattle of steel and a distant shouting. Sansa pulled her cloak tighter. The air was rich with the smells of earth and leaf. Lady would have liked this place, she thought. There was something wild about a godswood; even here, in the heart of the castle at the heart of the city, you could feel the old gods watching with a thousand unseen eyes.

Now obviously Sansa can know full well Lady would love the godswood for it's rich smells because she knows a wolf enjoys such things. But I think GRRM has gifted us another clue here. That Sansa knows Lady would have loved it here; in the Godswood, because she has smelled those smells of earth woodsy-ness through Lady's nose and felt deep inside how the wolf loved the smells.  Because when you think superficially that your dog would live the woods the smells are not the reason that springs to mind. To me I think Oh he would love the space to run, the birds to flush from shrubs and undergrowth. The weaving through trees and jumping over fallen logs. Because we think from our own senses and our experience of watching our pets comes from observing them. We might think as a secondary idea oh and the smells must be nice for them too. But here Sansa thinks first of the woods from lady's own sensory POV. 

Then in Storm,

ASOS Sansa IV

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That was such a sweet dream, Sansa thought drowsily. She had been back in Winterfell, running through the godswood with her Lady. Her father had been there, and her brothers, all of them warm and safe. If only dreaming could make it so . . .

So another dream where she is running "with" Lady through the Godswood. Then there is this it is not exactly a wolf dream, but it is the linking of dreams to her inner wolf. 

ASOS Sansa VII

Quote

She awoke all at once, every nerve atingle. For a moment she did not remember where she was. She had dreamt that she was little, still sharing a bedchamber with her sister Arya. But it was her maid she heard tossing in sleep, not her sister, and this was not Winterfell, but the Eyrie. And I am Alayne Stone, a bastard girl. The room was cold and black, though she was warm beneath the blankets. Dawn had not yet come. Sometimes she dreamed of Ser Ilyn Payne and woke with her heart thumping, but this dream had not been like that. Home. It was a dream of home.

So its been set up by her waking from a dream of home, Winterfell. 

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Yet she stepped out all the same. Her boots tore ankle-deep holes into the smooth white surface of the snow, yet made no sound. Sansa drifted past frosted shrubs and thin dark trees, and wondered if she were still dreaming. Drifting snowflakes brushed her face as light as lover's kisses, and melted on her cheeks. At the center of the garden, beside the statue of the weeping woman that lay broken and half-buried on the ground, she turned her face up to the sky and closed her eyes. She could feel the snow on her lashes, taste it on her lips. It was the taste of Winterfell. The taste of innocence. The taste of dreams.

And then we are given this scene in which she goes out into the snow and she drifts past; a word that evokes a soundless movement like a wolf in the snow, trees and shrubs; which again brings to mind the wolves passing through woods which is a key feature of the direwolf dreams. She turns her face up to the sky; like a wolf howling at the moon, and she then has a sensory experience feeling and tasting the snow. Like a wolf using heightened senses, and what do our Starks taste a lot when they are wolf dreaming?

Blood of course. Here Sansa is evoking her blood - the blood of Winterfell, which she uses to remind herself who she is throughout the latter books whilst she is masquerading as Alayne. And then GRRM tells us this is the taste of dreams. So he's had her being a wolf and then he tells us this is the taste of her dreams. Right after he had her dream a dream of home. 

Two other things I'll mention, when she went to meet Dontos she thinks of Lady again as she clutches her knife in the Godswood. And thinks how Lady could sniff out a lie. So in a way she is drawing on Lady to help her discern if Dontos is telling it true. Then later Joffrey says that she has the wolf of a Blood.  

So yes it is a bit scanty but there is evidence that she had wolf dreams, and yes she is definitely still a warg capable of taking a familiar. 

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Hi,  i like your view of warg & hound.  For a time it was true.  They shared a different bond, to reflect Sansa's different circumstances, being in the south outside the old gods' sphere of influence.  

< just as a heads up, there is a "still reading" area if you want to avoid having all the spoilers dropped on you.  Luckily there aren't any spoiler answers for this question, just people's Sansa expectations.>

In some ways, my answer is yes Sansa has 'warged' Sandor, but in finger quotes because she did it non-magically.   Because of her mistreatment, he soured on his duties to the Lannisters and snapped out of his badguy persona.   Sansa changed his alignment, and the Lannister dog's loyalties shifted toward her. That's kind of like reaching into a brain and exerting a deep influence over it, ala warging.  Just accomplished by wrongful suffering that awoke Sandor's empathy and conscience and his desire to be worthy of knighthood-ish ideals like Sansa's instead of wallowing with the amoral jackasses of the world.... until he couldn't stomach it anymore and bailed.   She saved his soul?

I don't know if their bond continued afterwards, or if he's meant to answer her call (psychic dog whistle) any further.  I'm not really expecting them to get back together.  I suppose it's something you could quietly wish for but don't, you know, pin your hopes on it.  That'd just make things too easy for the author who already loves to crush our hopes. ....But while it lasted, yes, he was her direwolf equivalent.  And who's to say she won't soon have another.  Or...might already.

And as for Lady Dreams continuing after the dogdeath, why not say that Lady's spirit came to Sansa and resided with her, using the bond to survive in the same way the dead human warg can sometimes retreat into the mind of their beast and look out from its eyes for a while.  So when Sansa clutched the knife in the godswood that could very well have been Lady's instincts continuing to serve Sansa.

 

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On 6/4/2019 at 11:28 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

According to Martin, all of the Stark children have the skinchange/warg talent. Here is a report from a little while back. One thing to note (and bugs the shit out of me) is this report mixes around warg with skinchange. Warg is to a wolf or dog, skinchange is to other animals. This blurs that line a bit with Sansa because, as others have noted above, it is likely that Sansa will skinchange an animal of flight, a bird of prey more precisely.

Thanks for the shoutout!  Right.  We also know from Varamyr that a dog is the easiest to skin change as it is already accustomed to humans.  I believe that if Sansa had remained in close contact with Bryen's old blind dog on the Fingers, she very well might have started having dog dreams. They were already bonding, and the dog was sleeping in her bed, but she was only staying at the Fingers for about two weeks IIRC.  Then there's the whole scene where the "sad old hound" tries to growl and scare off Marillion, but Lothor Brune steps in to stop his attempted rape.  Her knee-jerk reaction was to think Lothor was Sandor in the dark until she heard his voice.  So that's a lot like her in other instances of calling for Lady.  She even says to the dog, "I wish you were Lady."  We're definitely being hammered over and over with this association between dogs, wolves, Sandor, and Lady.  So, what does that mean as far skinchanging is concerned? 

Well, I don't think there's any evidence that Sansa outright skinchanged Sandor.  We know from Hodor and Thistle that this is a highly unpleasant, violent experience for the person losing control over their mind and body.  We would have seen the evidence if this was the case; however, I think it's more of like what Leech describes with the "etching" or imprinting emotions on to each other.  Twice, Sansa wears Sandor's cloak, which is not only a marriage symbol, symbolically it's like slipping on his skin.  Varamyr describes skinchanging like a marriage.  She says she kept that "skin," placing it in her cedar chest, which is a reference to a bride's "hope chest," which contains items she'll be taking with her to her new home.  Sansa also shed her old southron "skin" when she took off the gown she wore to Joffrey's wedding and stuffed it in the bole of the tree in the godswood (a sacrifice to the Old Gods).  She then donned a dress of simple but practical wool which includes a green cloak.  Her and Sandor's clothing having mirrored each other on more than one occasion, and she's seen him wear an olive green cloak before.  Since the First Men wed before a weirwood tree, it's like Sansa is putting on her own marriage cloak before she leaves KL with Littlefinger (it blocks his cloak when he tries to put it on her aboard the Merling King).  So I don't think the Lady-Sandor connection is about literal skinchanging, but about the spiritual partnership between the direwolves and the Stark child.  In the language of the marriage ceremony, husband and wife are "one flesh, one heart, one soul."  

As for literal skinchanging, I agree with @The Weirwoods Eyesthat she is still capable of awakening that ability.  It makes sense that Sansa would take the longer and more winding path back to it as she moves further North.  A flight animal, like a bird of prey, seems to be the most likely candidate.  How though?  Well, my guess is that she gets a little assist from Bran.  

Spoiler

We can see from Theon's Winds sample that Bran is reaching out with his powers to communicate through the ravens and the weirwood tree.

We know from Varamyr and Bran's chapters that once an animal has been skinchanged, it's like breaking them to a saddle.  Bran is powerful enough to break in a wild bird of prey to make the process easier and help his sister catch up.  The bird association with Sansa is obvious, but it also makes sense on another level.  Hawking is the only type of hunting in which ladies are allowed to participate.  It's an elegant and genteel sport of both the north and south, one that is fitting with Sansa's experience and characterization.  Side note, I wonder if we'll get a Ladyhawke reference from George because that's just too darn perfect.  Sandor/Navarre = wolf, Sansa/Isabeau = hawk or falcon.  :D                 

Edited by Blue-Eyed Wolf

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Hi,

I'm new here btw. Very nice to meet you all :) and I'm not a native speaker, so hopefully you'll forgive my mistakes. I'll try my best.

 

For the longest time I thought the very same thing.

Reasons:

1. The hound's constant comparison and association with lady 

2. He starts to protect Sansa and looks out for her the way a direwolf would (Lady probably would have done a better job, but also would have been executed for it pretty quickly)

3. the Unkiss: As many others, I thought, that Sansa had warged into the hound for a part of a second and because she was quite a bit drunk herself his imagination of kissing her became her memory.

 

Two things changed my mind:

1.

"It’s not a typo. It is something! [Laughs] ”Unreliable narrator” is the key phrase there. The second scene is from Sansa’s thoughts. And what does that reveal about her psychologically? I try to be subtle about these things."

GRRM 2007

 

If it's psychological it can't be "magical".

 

And we have seen Sansa do that before (we all actually do things like that from time to time mostly without even noticing), funny enough also in regards to Sandor.

“It’s not the same,” Sansa said. “The Hound is Joffrey’s sworn shield. Your butcher’s boy attacked the prince.”

AGoT, Sansa3

 

2.

Last semester I had to write an essay on "la belle et la bete 1946" for school and man it's exactly the same.

Not only are the themes surrounding Sansa and Sandor the same, but also the themes regarding them as individuals and the journeys/arcs they are on (presumably only of course :))

"Children believe what we tell them. They have complete faith in us. They believe that a rose plucked from a garden can plunge a family into conflict. (...) They believe a thousand other simple things."

Even this introduction by filmmaker Cocteau screams "Sansa at her starting point":rolleyes: (for Sansa it's songs and what her Septa taught her)

 

Big themes that aren't in there are "brother issues", " murder of whole family"  :blush: 

 

Anyway in "la belle et la bete" la belle starts to fall for la bete, when she is not with him anymore, but on a very subconscious level.

She misses him, she only speak positively of him, she has compassion for him and understands him (two forces are fighting within him), she cries for him. But when she's asked, if she loves him, she says no (but in a weird way lol).

Shortly after she tries to go back to him and when she finds him, when he is about to die, she confesses her love to him. She fell in love with him, but slowly and subconsciously.

 

So I think GRRM is doing the same thing with Sansa. (Maybe not love yet, but sympathy and attraction)

I think Sansa actually knows, that he didn't kiss her, the same way that she knows that the butcher's boy didn't attack Joffrey, it's just her way of expressing her emotions and exploring different avenues in a very restrictive environment and society. Tbh this isn't that weird for someone with a big imagination anyway (has nothing to do with being crazy)

IRL Sansa probably would have experienced some trauma induced symptoms from her experience with the hound, but since GRRM has already shown us multiple times, that Sansa reacts to traumatic experiences (ned's beheading, the riot, Joffrey) in a different way, I think in this case, he just decided she wouldn't have a trauma from this (similarly to how Dany never experienced a trauma from her time with Drogo)

Of course that could change in the future.

 

Sorry, about me writing so much about the Unkiss. It was the main reason, why I believed the hound to be her literal direwolf in the past, but I don't do so anymore.

 

Two scene always struck me as odd though and always made me wonder...

"A terror as overwhelming as anything Sansa Stark had ever felt filled her suddenly. She stepped backward and bumped into someone."

AGOT, Sansa 1

This is the worst fear she has ever felt in all her life and who is right behind her? Sandor Clegane. (here Lady' s even still alive and with her) Did he feel her fear? Did he act out of instinct the same way she did, when she cupped his cheek? Or has it only symbolic meaning?

 

"You could do it, she told herself. You could. Do it right now. It wouldn’t even matter if she went over with him. It wouldn’t matter at all. “Here, girl.” Sandor Clegane knelt before her, between her and Joffrey."

AGOT, Sansa 6

Again, did he feel what she was planning to do? She didn't move towards Joffrey. Only symbolic meaning or is there something more?

 

Let's put it this way, I wouldn't completely exclude the possibility, that there could be some kind of magical connection (like a there is between a direwolf and a human) in addition to the human connection. 

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On 3. Juni 2019 at 9:13 PM, Light a wight tonight said:

I like to think that Sansa has lost her direwolf to force her to develop other talents, as she's learning the seamy side of medieval politics from Littlefinger.

Yeah, but why does she have to lose her direwolf completely for that?:( The other ones are learning things without having to give up their direwolf.

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