Is the hound Sansa's 'new direwolf'?

[Nagini's Neville]

12 minutes ago, Mystical said:

I never said there wasn't. But Martin's world has a patriarchy on steroids, which does NOT reflect our medieval times at all. Hence my aversion to comparing it to that time in history. Worse if people use that excuse to justify the story, especially the patriarchy in it.

That's debatable. What makes you think, it does not reflect our medieval history? GRRM seems to think so.He explains and justifies his story that way. Of course there are some differences (like for example marriage ages weren't commonly that low, but it did happen, medical care), but in general I'd say it's pretty spot on, especially in regards to all things patriarchy, minus magic and religions. Or do you really think women had more rights during the Middle Ages? The Middle Ages also take place over a long period of time. It's not justifying, if you put the events in the context of the world.

[Springwatch]

3 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

It's not intended as a personal attack, it is a larger criticism....

Ok, but say that at the start. Usually in a forum our replies are directed to each other - if that's not the case, if you are making a general point or criticising a different group entirely, you need to say so.

Many times you begin with, people say ..., people think ..., people conveniently forget ..., and so on.

Which people are we talking about? Does it include the people actually present here on this thread, the people you are talking to?

Not to make this clear is deeply unfair and unkind, especially when the accusation is heavy like condoning violence against women.

Fight fair, is all I'm saying.

3 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

 ... But the discussion is about attraction to the serial killer type in Sandor and why the author is flummoxed by it....

No it isn't. The topic is direwolf replacement. I liked the topic, but I've kind of lost my line of thought, so no matter.

3 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Someone has to be focused on Sansa's well being. If nobody, then who?

Herself? As she grows up, the freedom to choose becomes hers, isn't that right? Would you really stand in front of her like a Victorian father, saying I will tell you who you can and can't marry, who to be friends with, who to forgive?

[Nagini's Neville]

A typical psychological reaction would have been to suppress the death threat (actually dissociate is the right word, but I guess suppress is easier to understand) to forget about it. It's called dissociative amnesia in psychology. But she doesn't do that, she adds a kiss, which imo also makes it worse. 

You could view her memory as a dissociative amnesia, if he'd actually raped her for example. That would have been very typical, that you'd just dissociate from, what happened after the kiss. 

She has a habit of romanticizing things, but she hasn't romanticized trauma before. 

That doesn't mean though, that this isn't what GRRM is trying to do.

 

 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

1 hour ago, Mystical said:

Even during medieval times the nobility knew about the dangers of childbirth which is why even with betrothals or marriage made at a young age, consummation didn't happen until 18 or older precisely because of the danger to mother and/or child. This is nonexistent in Westeros, hence the nobility of that world only loosely based on ours

I agree. I'm not sure what we're arguing here. Yes, Westeros is based on a medieval society. 

1 hour ago, Mystical said:

never said there wasn't. But Martin's world has a patriarchy on steroids, which does NOT reflect our medieval times at all. Hence my aversion to comparing it to that time in history. Worse if people use that excuse to justify the story, especially the patriarchy in it

Well sure. Medieval society was a patriarchal society. I don't see anyone justifying anything in the manner you are stating. 

I did say that what constitutes abuse to us, today, is not always the same as what constitutes abuse in Westeros. But that is hardly justifying anything. It's just stating a fact. 

1 hour ago, Mystical said:

have never once interpreted anything regarding the two as romantic on her end, much less foreshadowing a marriage for the two

Right, we've gathered that, if nothing else. I think what @Nagini's Neville is saying is that they would be interested in hearing what you make of the symbolism we interpret as romantic between Sandor & Sansa.

1 hour ago, Mystical said:

I don't care about Sandor's side because he doesn't matter to me

And I think there in lies the road block in communication. You don't care about Sandor's side - which is fine, but seem to take some offense to those that do, or who want to discuss it. 

1 hour ago, Mystical said:

She is going to cling to whatever good in the world she can, even if she has to distort reality. It's a survival mechanism. I've mentioned this already on the thread but the un-kiss is a perfect example of that coping mechanism. She needs to distort what actually happened in order to cling to some belief that there is some good out there. So she romanticizes what actually happened between them. Similar to how she deliberately refrains from thinking about Jeyne because otherwise the world comes crashing down. This is how she copes with the ugliness of the world.

I disagree with this almost entirely but I suppose we will all have to wait & see what the George meant with the un-kiss. 

1 hour ago, Mystical said:

she has sex dreams that have Sandor in them? Big whoop. She's a pre-teen whose hormones are now active. Her exposure to men is limited and she has romanticized Sandor in her own mind. Her having dreams about him tells me nothing. No different than teens in our world who have sex dreams about some actor, singer or character they swoon over

I highly doubt any dream in all of aSoIaF has this little significance to it. GRRM wrote the dreams for a reason. Not because teenage girls have hormones & sometimes have sex dreams. 

[The Mother of The Others]

Isn't Sandor like a junior priest assistant monk guy now?    So he's not looking for a hookup, unless it's maybe Podrick.    He's into letting go of his previous lusts and nasty state of mind to live a clean life.  His memories of KL and Sansa are messy.    Events may bring them back to that city, but I don't see them ending up on a ranch together.

What would Jon and Sansa talk about?     All the horrible stuff they've endured.  But that'd only carry them through the first year.  After that, would they click?    I didn't see them as people who'd be into each other.    A cowboy and a khloe.

Aegon could rescue Sansa every night from a different guy with a messed up face as part of their foreplay, and he'd remind her more of the fairytale of her youth come round at last.  It's assumed Aegon will die so why bother with him, but I can see him exceeding our expectations.   The blackfyres need to be brought back into the fold or else their saga won't ever end.   Stormborn isn't going to slay Aegon first and ask questions later.   There's a chance he lives.    Prince who is also charming.

Tyrion actually was nice.   He's just been a lot of other things before, during, and since--nasty things that disqualify him as a worthy spouse.    What if the linking of their Stark & Lann clans could be turned into a genuine plus, like a gamechanger relationship that helped bring order and peace and survival to the realm?   She could probably see past his appearance quite easily at this point to the guy who's treated her the best.  Could he ever put aside his focus on where whores go for long enough to love someone properly?  And does his penis have more diseases than a Shumash tribe?    The odds aren't in their favor to be a beauty and the beast success story, but it's possible.  And it's what's been set in place!   

Whereas Sandor has kinda been moved along down the conveyor belt into a new persona and new life.   Hmmm, better persona....   That's why i wondered before if she'd saved the hound's soul.   Got him to leave Las Vegas.  ....So who knows what's in store.   Maybe the new holy man hound is a better match.   Probably not where the story is going.  Unless... was George always planning on them ending up together, but after the hound's transformation?!   Which is why he was surprised to see people shipping them before the personality makeover!?!

Sansa just staying with sweetRobin in the Vale would make me the saddest.   Sweet is a downer.   It is known.  He's like the Darkstar of the Arryns.    

[Rose of Red Lake]

9 hours ago, aromaticanalysis said:

she embellishes her memory to match her fantasy world. Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

Coping mechanisms can obscure inappropriate behavior too. It's unhelpful if women don't know when men cross a line, when they actually have. Just the first step of actually identifying bad behavior and naming it is a struggle, in a culture that excuses and silences so much. But at least Sansa remembers that he MADE her do something and that he THREATENED TO KILL HER. That's a start. Learning how men have violated her autonomy is important right now, since she is in the dark about a lot.

9 hours ago, Elegant Woes said:

Wait when did Sansa have a 'sex dream' about Sandor? 

Yeah...uhhh....lets revisit that...

10 hours ago, aromaticanalysis said:

Lolwut. How is Sandor a "serial killer type?" Serial killer types in ASOIAF are like Ramsay Bolton or Gregor Clegane. Total psychos who kill for the hell of it. Sandor is like Jaime, in that he enjoys killing people in the context of war/battles. Is it a great quality to have, in a modern context definitely not, but it makes sense for a warrior in a martial society. 

Okay, psychopath...is that better? This "great quality" has fucked up their heads to the point where one attempts to murder a kid and the other does it professionally. All that killing which they enjoy makes them dangerous to innocent people and I dont mean in a bad boy kinky way. I wouldnt trust Jaime or Sandor to protect Sansa.

10 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

A lot of ppl think Sandor will only be Sansa's platonic protector.

Brienne is the only knight worthy of that role, so I will even argue with you there. The Hound is not Sansa's new direwolf, he lost that chance, and failed to respect her at many points. 

10 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

What makes it very difficult to have a productive and interesting discussion among ppl, who disagree, is that you keep on stating your own opinions and interpretations as facts.

Again, what surprised GRRM about reactions to the books is people shipping Sansa and Sandor. There is no opinion here. Watch the video. I think discussing a marriage between them is futile if he had no intention of writing it romantically. The author is quite the buzzkill, for all ships, tbh. 

[Nagini's Neville]

21 minutes ago, The Mother of The Others said:

Isn't Sandor like a junior priest assistant monk guy now?    So he's not looking for a hookup, unless it's maybe Podrick.   

Wait what? how come, that Pod is now suddenly old enough for him though?  No way he gets him!! Not two of my favorite characters!! Afterwards Pod will be distressed as well! He'll think that this one time Sandor handed him a pitchfork, even though he never did. What will Sandor call him? Little duck? 

[Nagini's Neville]

36 minutes ago, The Mother of The Others said:

Tyrion actually was nice.   He's just been a lot of other things before, during, and since--nasty things that disqualify him as a worthy spouse.    What if the linking of their Stark & Lann clans could be turned into a genuine plus, like a gamechanger relationship that helped bring order and peace and survival to the realm?   She could probably see past his appearance quite easily at this point to the guy who's treated her the best.  Could he ever put aside his focus on where whores go for long enough to love someone properly?  And does his penis have more diseases than a Shumash tribe?    The odds aren't in their favor to be a beauty and the beast success story, but it's possible.  And it's what's been set in place!   

I didn't think Tyrion was so nice to her though. He could have easily faked the wedding night. And when they didn't consummate (and somehow everyone found out) what did happen?- nothing at all. Instead he put her through all of that. 

And imo he did sexually assault her, because she did not consent, she did quite the opposite actually. And he knew how she felt. He knew it would be "cruel" to her beforehand, because he said so to his father himself.

But still he did put her through that. And what i found kind of manipulative (dunno if this was his intention), that he made it seem, like they were both equally victims in this scenario. Sorry, but this annoyed me so much.

First of all he was not a victim- he got to chose.

Secondly, he has all the power in the relationship, because not only is he part of the family, that holds her captive, but he is also her husband now. And as her husband he holds all the power, she basically has to obey him by law and he also knows that Sansa will do it, whether she wants to or not.

So by saying things like "I'm also afraid" and "let's do our duty", he makes it seem like he also has no choice in the matter and he holds no power in the situation. But that's not true, he didn't have to attempt consummation.

I know some ppl might think, having to strip down, being grouped against you will and having to see a guy naked, you don't want to see naked, is not so bad, but imo it is.

And I know Tyrion also had some struggles, but I just personally think, they were in no way as severe and intense as hers (he should have kept the power dynamic in mind). I just had hoped, he would have been able to see that and think a little bit more of her first in the situation and not be so self centered. Especially, when he beforehand in conversation with Tywin showed, that he definitely understood her situation and empathized with her. 

[Rose of Red Lake]

10 hours ago, Springwatch said:

Herself? As she grows up, the freedom to choose becomes hers, isn't that right? Would you really stand in front of her like a Victorian father, saying I will tell you who you can and can't marry, who to be friends with, who to forgive?

Look, here is my sin, I'm a stan, I'm aggressively focused on Sansa. I get reminded that there are other characters. But those other characters aren't in her exact situation, so I dont care. That's what I meant by someone has to focus exclusively on her. There are a few of us here...but most ran off this forum because the discussion about Sansa usually circles back to Hound swooning, or how Sansa has to put up with LF so she can learn from him, or how its in her best interest to stay married to Tyrion, or how the things these characters have done to her aren't that bad. I stick around because I like defending Sansa and I think there is misunderstanding about her/what the point of her story is. Typical stan stuff. I'm annoying. 

10 hours ago, Springwatch said:

No it isn't. The topic is direwolf replacement. I liked the topic, but I've kind of lost my line of thought, so no matter.

Well, to circle back around, the Hound fails to protect her, he is dangerous, it is too low a standard, I think the author has higher standards for her protection (and her romantic life), based on his comments about how Sandor is a dangerous guy. 

[Nagini's Neville]

1 hour ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Okay, psychopath.

is someone, who is completely incapable of feeling empathy at all. They feel no social responsibility, and doesn't have a conscience at all. They don't feel anything at all, when they look at other ppl, they could as well be dolls to them. Examples in asoiaf would be Gregor and Ramsay. Of course we don't know for sure, but they seem extremely psychopathic.

[Nagini's Neville]

20 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Look, here is my sin, I'm a stan, I'm aggressively focused on Sansa.

Wait, what?   And here was I, thinking I am a Sansa fan. 

Tbh your statements sound like those of a very over-bearing mother to me, who has Sansa's whole life already planned out for her lol

But you are describing yourself as a Stan? Wasn't that the guy, who went crazy, because he couldn't live without Eminem anymore? Be carful line between passion and craziness can be slim  

But never the less I wish you best of luck in your future uhm... Stanning? Bye

 

[Elegant Woes]

2 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

What would Jon and Sansa talk about?     All the horrible stuff they've endured.  But that'd only carry them through the first year.  After that, would they click?    I didn't see them as people who'd be into each other.

Interesting that you ask a question about this because no one asks the same one about Sandor and Tyrion when it comes to Sansa. No one questions whether they are compatible with her or what they will talk about. Can we please hold them all to the same standard? As to what their dynamic will be? Who knows. There are so many ways their relationship can be written as and I have no confidence to answer just how exactly they will interact. We need to wait for TWOW. What I do know is that unlike Sandor and Tyrion Jon actually believes Sansa is intelligent. He would value her opinion and seek her advice, and he would need it because while he learned a lot at the Night's watch Jon lacks the knowledge on political theatre and presentation and this is something that Sansa knows a lot about. What both Jon and Sansa have learned from AGOT to ADWD blends perfectly together and I don't think this is a coincidence but rather authorial intent on GRRM's part. At the very least they would be successful working duo. Which is something no other guy could ever have with Sansa. 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

50 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

Interesting that you ask a question about this because no one asks the same one about Sandor and Tyrion when it comes to Sansa. No one questions whether they are compatible with her or what they will talk about. Can we please hold them all to the same standard? As to what their dynamic will be? Who knows. There are so many ways their relationship can be written as and I have no confidence to answer just how exactly they will interact. We need to wait for TWOW. What I do know is that unlike Sandor and Tyrion Jon actually believes Sansa is intelligent. He would value her opinion and seek her advice, and he would need it because while he learned a lot at the Night's watch Jon lacks the knowledge on political theatre and presentation and this is something that Sansa knows a lot about. What both Jon and Sansa have learned from AGOT to ADWD blends perfectly together and I don't think this is a coincidence but rather authorial intent on GRRM's part. At the very least they would be successful working duo. Which is something no other guy could ever have with Sansa. 

Sansa & Sandor have actually had some interaction. Show me where it's stated Jon thinks Sansa is intelligent or would value her opinion or seek her advice. 

[Rose of Red Lake]

2 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Tbh your statements sound like those of a very over-bearing mother to me, who has Sansa's whole life already planned out for her lol

Well so be it. I just think every man she meets, except for maybe Dontos and Garlan, is trash. Is that mothering or is it just reading a story about a vulnerable woman having to deal with sketchy trashy men and having alarm bells go off?

Here is a transcript of my thoughts reading Sansa's chapters:

"That guy mocks the feminine things you enjoy. He is trash."

"That guy almost raped you. Trash." 

"That guy is stalking you. Trash."

"That guy helped you by doing something he loves doing anyway (killing), but look he's back to being trash."

"Willas sounds nice. But too bad Olenna and Margaery are being pretty trashy toward you."

"I cant wait until Sansa realizes LF is trash in Winds"

The first four are about Sandor.

[Springwatch]

1 hour ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Well so be it. I just think every man she meets, except for maybe Dontos and Garlan, is trash.

Dontos fails the test too, unfortunately. Even though, as well said earlier, he is also pretty terrific - taking huge risks for her, giving good advice, boosting her confidence and so on. The downside is he does grope her a bit, and wants kisses in return for his help. Worse he betrays her greatest hope, escape with the Tyrells. And he never asks her if she wants to trust her life to Littlefinger.

Which leaves Garlan. I don't know what to think. Doesn't seem possible that this one guy in the whole sorry list of suitors could be just nice. What does it mean to be a Lannister with thorns anyway?

4 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I stick around because I like defending Sansa and I think there is misunderstanding about her/what the point of her story is

Sansa takes a lot of defending, I know. Stick around.

[Springwatch]

1 hour ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Show me where it's stated Jon thinks Sansa is intelligent or would value her opinion or seek her advice. 

Um. Jon told Ygritte her name was pretty because Sansa had told him that was the way to talk to girls.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

[Elegant Woes]

2 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Sansa & Sandor have actually had some interaction. Show me where it's stated Jon thinks Sansa is intelligent or would value her opinion or seek her advice. 

Yes Sandor and Sansa did interact a lot but in all of their interactions the Hound is always calling her stupid and mocking her interest and/or beliefs. Intelligence being questioned has always been a sore spot for Sansa and by the look at her crippling self-esteem in AFFC it's clear that Sandor's verbal abuse affected her deeply. Based on this no one can say in good faith that Sansa and Sandor are compatible. 

I admit I made a huge assumption in my last reply, but based on Jon's personality it's fair to assume that he would not treat Sansa so awfully like Sandor does. Based on the trajectory of Sansa's narrative, the foreshadowing in her chapters, the basic outline we got from the show, and the complimentary skills of both of them it's highly likely that Jon and Sansa will work together to reclaim Winterfell in TWOW. Since Jon would never ever overstep his boundaries when it comes to the inheritance of the Starks, he would of course value the input of Sansa and listen to her. To assume otherwise is to disregard who Jon is. 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

34 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

Yes Sandor and Sansa did interact a lot but in all of their interactions the Hound is always calling her stupid and mocking her interest and/or beliefs. Intelligence being questioned has always been a sore spot for Sansa and by the look at her crippling self-esteem in AFFC it's clear that Sandor's verbal abuse affected her deeply. Based on this no one can say in good faith that Sansa and Sandor are compatible. 

I admit I made a huge assumption in my last reply, but based on Jon's personality it's fair to assume that he would not treat Sansa so awfully like Sandor does. Based on the trajectory of Sansa's narrative, the foreshadowing in her chapters, the basic outline we got from the show, and the complimentary skills of both of them it's highly likely that Jon and Sansa will work together to reclaim Winterfell in TWOW. Since Jon would never ever overstep his boundaries when it comes to the inheritance of the Starks, he would of course value the input of Sansa and listen to her. To assume otherwise is to disregard who Jon is. 

Just because it's in Jon's nature to not mistreat women doesn't mean he & Sansa are compatible. He probably wouldn't try to skip over her inheritance & they may work together to revive WF but again nothing to suggest he would value her opinion or even listen to it. He didn't listen to Ygritte. I understand why he didn't listen to her but he still didn't. Besides the fact that it's incest. Sansa & Jon barely know each other & don't particularly like each other. Don't get me wrong, I would like to see that change & hopefully it will now that Sansa has changed but there is still nothing indicating a romantic relationship between them. 

I'm not arguing Sandor is a good match for Sansa, I'm arguing Jon isn't. Also that there are signs pointing to a potential relationship between Sandor & Sansa (romantic or platonic) while we don't really have that with Jon 

[Elegant Woes]

@Lyanna<3Rhaegar I never said that Sansa and Jon are compatible, just that they have the potential to be compatible based on their complementary skills and shared ideals. It's silly to assume that Jon would treat Sansa the same as Ygritte. They were strangers and even as they got closer Jon always made sure to keep her at a certain distance because at the end of the day he was using her to cover his identity and a spy. Sansa on the other hand is, as far as he knows, his little sister, he would treat her different even as they were not so close. Just because it's pseudo incest will not stop GRRM from getting them together. After all in the original outline of ASOIAF Jon was supposed to end up with Arya. It's very likely that GRRM gave that storyline to Sansa, because there's a lot of foreshadowing of Jon and Sansa getting together romantically. 

Sansa's first crush was Waymar Royce, who by GRRM's admission is a stand in for Jon Snow, looks a lot like Jon:

Quote

He was a handsome youth of eighteen, grey-eyed and graceful and slender as a knife. Mounted on his huge black destrier, the knight towered above Will and Gared on their smaller garrons. He wore black leather boots, black woolen pants, black moleskin gloves, and a fine supple coat of gleaming black ringmail over layers of black wool and boiled leather.

 

Quote

Jon’s eyes were a grey so dark they seemed almost black**, but there was little they did not see. He was of an age with Robb, but they did not look alike. Jon was slender where Robb was muscular, dark where Robb was fair, graceful and quick where his half brother was strong and fast.

 

Almost all of Sansa's heroes matches the ones that Jon liked to play as a child:

Quote

“Sweet one,” her father said gently, “listen to me. When you’re old enough, I will make you a match with a high lord who’s worthy of you, someone brave and gentle and strong. This match with Joffrey was a terrible mistake. That boy is no Prince Aemon, you must believe me.” -

 

 

Quote

She shouted for Ser Dontos, for her brothers, for her dead father and her dead wolf, for gallant Ser Loras who had given her a red rose once, but none of them came. She called for the heroes from the songs, for Florian and Ser Ryam Redwyne and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, but no one heard.

 

Quote

They were not little boys when they fought, but knights and mighty heroes. “I’m Prince Aemon the Dragonknight,” Jon would call out, and Robb woul shout back, “Well, I’m Florian the Fool.” Or Robb would say, “I’m the Young Dragon,” and Jon would reply, “I’m Ser Ryam Redwyne.”

 

Of the Starks Sansa and Jon are the only ones who voice desire to recreate their childhood memories by having children:

Quote

 

I would need to steal her if I wanted her love, but she might give me children. I might someday hold a son of my own blood in my arms. A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decided to live his life on the Wall. I could name him Robb. Val would want to keep her sister’s son, but we could foster him at Winterfell, and Gilly’s boy as well. Sam would never need to tell his lie. We’d find a place for Gilly too, and Sam could come visit her once a year or so. Mance’s son and Craster’s would grow up brothers, as I once did with Robb.

He wanted it, Jon knew then. He wanted it as much as he had ever wanted anything. I have always wanted it, he thought, guiltily. 

 

 

Quote

 

She pictured the two of them sitting together in a garden with puppies in their laps, or listening to a singer strum upon a lute while they floated down the Mander on a pleasure barge. If I give him sons, he may come to love me. She would name them Eddard and Brandon and Rickon, and raise them all to be as valiant as Ser Loras. And to hate Lannisters, too. In Sansa’s dreams, her children looked just like the brothers she had lost. Sometimes there was even a girl who looked like Arya.

 

Sansa has been foreshadowed to become queen multiple times & Jon has been foreshadowed as king multiple times. Their historical counterparts from War of the Roses (Elizabeth of York and Henry VII) were not only cousins but they got married and ushered in a golden age. Based on that it's reasonable to believe that a marriage between Jon & Sansa could usher in a golden age for the Starks. GRRM did say that at it's core value ASOIAF is about glory returning to a certain house and since he has stressed over and over again that the Starks are the heart and heroes of this series, it's safe the assume that a Stark restoration will happen. Like I said before of all the Starks Jon and Sansa are the only ones who want children. Father and motherhood are strong themes in both of their narratives. 

Thematically it would also make sense. Westeros was torn apart because of a Targaryen/Stark union (Rhaegar/Lyanna) and naturally it needs to be healed by another Stark/Targaryen union (Jon/Sansa).

[Nagini's Neville]

Dontos lied to her and manipulated her for his own gain. When she had a way out with Willas, he ruined it for her. 

And we don't know how much Garlan actually knew. Could very well be that he knew, they were going to frame her for murder and trap her permanently with LF.

As much as he was an asshole to her, the only one ever telling her the truth was Sandor (or at least, what he perceived to be the truth) 

I feel like you should really just open your own thread about why Jon and Sansa are perfect for each other and maybe also why Sansa and Sandor aren't.... because it's actually really not the topic here.... and maybe some ppl still would want to discuss the topic -just a suggestion.

But anyway, I'm out of here. I said all I have to say and we keep going in circles. And also analyzing the text is more  interesting to me, than only having an intense moral discussion (not that that isn't important as well. Suggestion: open new thread: What would be best for Sansa Stark?) about what would be best for my favorite character, since my opinion won't change the story anyway.

If that were the case I'd already written page on pages how Sansa and Pod would be just perfect for one another