All time Top Fighters

[Daemon The Black Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Baelor 'Breakspear' said:

He is a top fighter not arguing that, but 1) he had a dragon and 2) his fighting prowess is mentioned in the world of Ice and Fire or in Fire and blood and not by a POV chapter. Still, I think with his achievements he would be between 8-13

Everything I mentioned Maegor did, he did without a dragon. You have a few on your list who are never mentioned in a pov chapter for their fighting prowess. 

[Baelor 'Breakspear']

1 hour ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

Everything I mentioned Maegor did, he did without a dragon. You have a few on your list who are never mentioned in a pov chapter for their fighting prowess. 

For example?

[Baelor 'Breakspear']

1 hour ago, Gerg Sknab said:

Remember Wenda is of the Kingswood Brotherhood along with the Smiling Knight and Simon Toyne and they were known and feared. The stories told of her re Merrrett Frey and Ulmer of the Knightswood.

Remember Asha spent hours fighting Northmen and Kings men in an attempt to hold Deepwood considering iron islanders were vastly out numbered and only 9 of what was it 200 lived to tell the tale, however if one losing battle does make her qualified how bout her proficiency with throwing axes, the fact her crew would follow her to the ends of the earth (half the crew loves her as a daughter the other half wants to get in her pants and the fact she is on Rodrick the Reader level of intelligence.

We know enough about Obarra that she is sent to challenge Darkstar considered by many in Dorne to be the best.

O and Victarian >Asha I think not. Dagmar names the three top reavers in 299/300 and Vic is not among them, they include Qarl the Maid Asha's lover), Andrik the Unsmilng and Black Lorren.

The ones sent after Darkstar were Obara and Swann, not Obara alone so she is not as good as Darkstar. Also sh ehas been sent there to keep an eye on Swann most likely

[Baelor 'Breakspear']

2 hours ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

We know more about Maegor actual fighting ability then Rhaegar or Ryam Redwyne. Like a mentioned before, Maegor was 12 and unhorsing people 5 years older then him and at 13 was beating knights in melees. In one tourney he unhorseed 3 KG members and won the melee. Like Daemon Blackfyre we are told Maegor skill with weapons was unmatched. He fought in 2 campaigns against a pirate king on the Stepstones and defeated the outlaw knight called the Giant of the Trident in the riverlands. He also won his trial of seven. Maegor didn't ride a dragon until he was 25 or 26 years old.  

In the tourneys we don't know his opponents ( except the KG members, that is REALLY impressive ). That is important cause if you remember in Dunk and Egg 1 it is said by Dunk that the fighters that Prince Vallar faced weren't of the highest level. This could be possible with Maegor. Why not Rhaegar you might say? Well we know some of Rhaegar's opponents and all seem quite good. Also the Giant of the trident and the campaigns vs the pirate king are not that impressive with others achievements. I think his battle against Aenys son (don't remember his name) is his bigger achievement as it is said he slaughtered the rebels, but that with Balerion,the black dread

[Daemon The Black Dragon]

24 minutes ago, Baelor 'Breakspear' said:

For example?

Fireball and Gwayne Corbray. Neither are mentioned in a pov, that I can remember. Not saying they don't belong on a list of all time greats tho.

[Baelor 'Breakspear']

1 minute ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

Fireball and Gwayne Corbray. Neither are mentioned in a pov, that I can remember. Not saying they don't belong on a list of all time greats tho.

Fireball is mentioned in Dunk and egg by Fireball's bastard son Glendon,  Osgrey and by Dunk's thought. Corbray also in Dunk and egg by Osgrey and dunk's thoughts as well 

[Daemon The Black Dragon]

20 minutes ago, Baelor 'Breakspear' said:

In the tourneys we don't know his opponents ( except the KG members, that is REALLY impressive ). That is important cause if you remember in Dunk and Egg 1 it is said by Dunk that the fighters that Prince Vallar faced weren't of the highest level. This could be possible with Maegor. Why not Rhaegar you might say? Well we know some of Rhaegar's opponents and all seem quite good. Also the Giant of the trident and the campaigns vs the pirate king are not that impressive with others achievements. I think his battle against Aenys son (don't remember his name) is his bigger achievement as it is said he slaughtered the rebels, but that with Balerion,the black dread

Really fighting in actual campaigns (without dragons) isn't as impressive as only being a tourney knight who's good at jousting?  That's what Rhaegar and even Ryam Redwyne are, tourney knights with no actual fighting experience. We're told how good Maegor was at fighting  in F&B.

[Baelor 'Breakspear']

14 minutes ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

Really fighting in actual campaigns (without dragons) isn't as impressive as only being a tourney knight who's good at jousting?  That's what Rhaegar and even Ryam Redwyne are, tourney knights with no actual fighting experience. We're told how good Maegor was at fighting  in F&B.

Ryam had the best duel ever in the history of westeros and Rhaegar fought against better opponents that Maegor ever did. Maegor is still a great fighter tho don't get me wrong

[nyser1]

11 hours ago, Baelor 'Breakspear' said:

I don't think Ned deserves to be so high. Show Ned maybe but in the books he is not that good. I mean Royce destroyed him and Rodrik together. Also we don't know what happened in the tower of joy and Jaime vs Ned never happened in the books. I think Ned is in the level of book Stannis where he is an good for a noble (better than soldier but lower from fighters like Bronn). Also I think Daemon deserves to be MUCH higher. He is a S tier for me (along Dayne, Selmy, Jaime, Aemon, Robert, Ryam and Dunk. Tbh I was close to put Cregan or Garlan at 15 but I think the halfhand at his prime cold have been as good as Ryam or Robert in skill. Many of your picks are in my honourable mentions and they were close to enter the 15. Also I don't understand how Oberyn is so low. He is for sure better than most of the second half of your list especially Eddard. Also Loras is too inexpierenced to be so high and Tyggett , while he is very good, is slighlty overrated by you I think

We have more text attesting to Eddard's skill than Oberyn historically. Oberyn did do well against the Mountain, we all know that. We have differing opinions, I can respect that.

[Baelor 'Breakspear']

7 hours ago, nyser1 said:

We have more text attesting to Eddard's skill than Oberyn historically. Oberyn did do well against the Mountain, we all know that. We have differing opinions, I can respect that.

Can respect that too

[Daemon The Black Dragon]

20 hours ago, Baelor 'Breakspear' said:

Ryam had the best duel ever in the history of westeros and Rhaegar fought against better opponents that Maegor ever did. Maegor is still a great fighter tho don't get me wrong

They're both only tourney knights who are good at the joust. Loras Tyrell is a skilled tourney knight too  but I'd take his older brother Garlan over Loras in a actual battle not a tourney joust. We have different views on the subject clearly . We're just going to have to  agree to disagree. 

[Baelor 'Breakspear']

34 minutes ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

They're both only tourney knights who are good at the joust. Loras Tyrell is a skilled tourney knight too  but I'd take his older brother Garlan over Loras in a actual battle not a tourney joust. We have different views on the subject clearly . We're just going to have to  agree to disagree. 

Yeah. Also I agree with Garlan>Loras

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

Based upon feats in battle:

• Daemon Blackfyre: hailed for his skill at arms, defeated Gwayne Corbray, who is famed enough to get a mention when Jaime and Loras discuss the best members of the Kingsguard. One of the only cases I can recall of one of the top fighters defeating another very high level fighter in a fair fight.
• Duncan the Tall: not really brought up for his skill at arms that much, but he killed Daemon III, who was possibly wielding Blackfyre, defeated the Laughing Storm, probably has a few more feats we don't know about including Blackfyre rebellion 3 and Peak Uprising.
• Barristan Selmy: cut a bloody path through the Golden Compancy before he even got a Maelys.
• Robert I Baratheon: probably not a top pick, but honestly based on battle experience and feats he deserves it; Marq Grafton at Gulltown, 3 Lords at Summerhall, probably would have killed JonCon, himself a renowned knight, then went on to kill Rhaegar.
• Jaime Lannister: has less feats to his name than some of the others, but his performance at the Whispering Woods earns him a place on the list

Honourable mention to Garlan Tyrell, whose performance on the Blackwater rivals Jaime's at the Whispering Wood. Being only 23 and in good health we may yet see more feats of arms from him.

Obviously this way of listing is quite flawed, some big names are absent, maybe just because they didn't get a chance to fight in a proper battle. But I think this is a more interesting way of judging some of the fighters than just going by a few duels with opponents who are not necessarily of the highest level.

[Gingin]

On 6/3/2019 at 6:15 PM, Baelor 'Breakspear' said:

11. Sandor Clegane

The Hound is a great fighter and one of the better in the current story. In the first book he unhorses Renly and defeats Jaime in the tourney of the hand . He manages to reach the final and wins the tourney, which is a great achievement as many great fighters fought in the tourney and late kills many of Ned's personal guard. He fights well against the citizens in the riot of King's Landing where he save Sansa and in the battle of Blackwater, before leaving. Despite his fear of fire he defeats Beric Dondarrion, who is a great fighter. His size and skill makes him a difficult opponent

Also, when he fights against Beric Dondarrion or against Polliver & co., he is drunk and therefore not at his best, but he still manages to win.

[apovsic]

So, we have a history of roughly 10 000 years, yet around 70% of "top fighters of all time" was in prime in last 20-25 years?

[Baelor 'Breakspear']

8 hours ago, apovsic said:

So, we have a history of roughly 10 000 years, yet around 70% of "top fighters of all time" was in prime in last 20-25 years?

We barely have evidence of fighters of the age of heroes and pre-Targaryen era. So most of them are naturally gonna come form 0 AC to 300 BC.Anyway what fighters would you put in the list that I didn't put ? You can maybe do your list and share it here 

[Baelor 'Breakspear']

8 hours ago, apovsic said:

So, we have a history of roughly 10 000 years, yet around 70% of "top fighters of all time" was in prime in last 20-25 years?

Well there are 9 of the last 25 years to 6 that are historical. Of the 9 that are current, Dayne,Selmy, Jaime and Robert are definitely top tier. The others could be argued by putting people like Cregan, Maegor, Daemon Targaryen, Criston Cole, Crabb or others

[Ser Hedge]

It's pretty hard to compare jousting champions, melee champions and fighters who have never been in a tourney, but have plenty of battle experience.

One suggestion to make it more comparable might be to exclude tourney jousting achievements? Then you are comparing skill with sword, war hammer, mace, spear and axe on foot. If there's enough data, maybe you can have a separate list for best fighter on horse back, though my guess is that will be heavily skewed towards jousters with lance again, but at least gives a skilled rider who prefers a hammer or mace (or arrakh? I know you need armour, so no) to be in contention.

[Baelor 'Breakspear']

On 6/7/2019 at 12:28 AM, Ser Arthur Hightower said:

Based upon feats in battle:

• Daemon Blackfyre: hailed for his skill at arms, defeated Gwayne Corbray, who is famed enough to get a mention when Jaime and Loras discuss the best members of the Kingsguard. One of the only cases I can recall of one of the top fighters defeating another very high level fighter in a fair fight.
• Duncan the Tall: not really brought up for his skill at arms that much, but he killed Daemon III, who was possibly wielding Blackfyre, defeated the Laughing Storm, probably has a few more feats we don't know about including Blackfyre rebellion 3 and Peak Uprising.
• Barristan Selmy: cut a bloody path through the Golden Compancy before he even got a Maelys.
• Robert I Baratheon: probably not a top pick, but honestly based on battle experience and feats he deserves it; Marq Grafton at Gulltown, 3 Lords at Summerhall, probably would have killed JonCon, himself a renowned knight, then went on to kill Rhaegar.
• Jaime Lannister: has less feats to his name than some of the others, but his performance at the Whispering Woods earns him a place on the list

Honourable mention to Garlan Tyrell, whose performance on the Blackwater rivals Jaime's at the Whispering Wood. Being only 23 and in good health we may yet see more feats of arms from him.

Obviously this way of listing is quite flawed, some big names are absent, maybe just because they didn't get a chance to fight in a proper battle. But I think this is a more interesting way of judging some of the fighters than just going by a few duels with opponents who are not necessarily of the highest level.

Well according to GRRM Dayne with dawn is superior to Selmy so yeah. Put Aemon into your mentions and you basically have my top top fighters 

[Baelor 'Breakspear']

4 hours ago, Ser Hedge said:

It's pretty hard to compare jousting champions, melee champions and fighters who have never been in a tourney, but have plenty of battle experience.

One suggestion to make it more comparable might be to exclude tourney jousting achievements? Then you are comparing skill with sword, war hammer, mace, spear and axe on foot. If there's enough data, maybe you can have a separate list for best fighter on horse back, though my guess is that will be heavily skewed towards jousters with lance again, but at least gives a skilled rider who prefers a hammer or mace (or arrakh? I know you need armour, so no) to be in contention.

This list is for the best warrior so it is basically everything sumed up. That is why for example Rhaegar who was an amazing juster is so low in the list