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What was the purpose of Jon Snow?


Areisius

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4 minutes ago, RYShh said:

Tywin didn't tell him to kill the prisoners...  As we've seen when he first came to Harrenhal, he asked what's going on, then he stopped.

It doesn't matter.  Tywin condoned it, just as he condoned the murder of Elia and every other atrocity that Ser Gregor carried out on his behalf.  

Prior to the Kings Landing inferno, Dany never perpetrated the kinds of atrocities that both Lannisters and Starks carried out in the Riverlands.

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22 minutes ago, SeanF said:

It doesn't matter.  Tywin condoned it, just as he condoned the murder of Elia and every other atrocity that Ser Gregor carried out on his behalf.  

Prior to the Kings Landing inferno, Dany never perpetrated the kinds of atrocities that both Lannisters and Starks carried out in the Riverlands.

Are you serious? You realise she crucified 163 nobles with zero proof against them? And it’s proven that they had nothing to do with it later when it was the Yunkai masters who were responsible. She fed one to her own dragon just for sport. She mercilessly killed all the nobles in Astapor. She killed all the Khal leaders by burning them alive so that she could add them to her own force. When she came to Westeros, she burnt an entire Lannister army alive. 

 

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10 hours ago, Raksha 2014 said:

Viserys had bullied and abused Daenerys for years.  She tried to help him earn the Dothraki's respect; he refused to even respect their ways.  And then he points a dagger (or sword, I can't remember) at Daenerys' pregnant belly and threatens to cut the unborn child out of her.  If I had been Daenerys, that would have been the point of no return; Viserys had become too much of a threat to her and her child.  I doubt that Khal Drogo would have altered his decision to kill Viserys even if Daenerys had begged for her brother's life; he would have lost face before all the assembled Dothraki had he allowed the man who openly threatened his wife and unborn child to live.  Daenerys might have been somewhat in shock when she said "He was not a dragon"; or it's an indication of emotional stability.  Either way, I don't blame her at all for not trying to help Viserys at that point.

But she does not show any emotion whatsoever at watching her brother die in this painful way. There is nothing on her face. She should be happy. She is not. She isn’t sad either. She just makes that dragon comment making her look like a merciless tyrant. If she had any compassion, she would have told Drogo to send Viserys back to Pentos or at least grant him a swift death with a sword. She also kept her eyes on him this whole time watching him die never flinching even worse. 

Comparable to Sansa. Myranda drew a bow at Sansa and said she would mutilate all parts of her body except the ones needed to produce an heir and then she told her that Ramsay will use her parts to produce 1 or 2 boys as heirs and mutilate them too once she is done giving him 2 sons. She escapes and when she is feeding Ramsay to her dogs, Sansa can’t bear to watch the scene of him being ripped apart by the dogs. She leaves in the middle of the event but she shows a smile of happiness. 

Dany wasn’t showing human emotions which was the first red flag of her descent to madness. 

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11 hours ago, Nowy Tends said:

Or, we begin to see the Stark children for what they really are. Jon is high on pot 24/24  (unable to formulate a coherent sentence), Arya now speaks like a Gestapo officer, and Sansa, sick with jealousy, attacks the person who came to save her sweet North's ass, in the style "who's gonna pay for the damn grub?"..... add a background of xenophobia, even racism, and Pffuit, the Starks have become Lannisters… Charming :rolleyes:

Arya seemed normal to me. 

Yes I agree. Sansa should immediately fall to Dany’s feet and trust a foreign invader with the equivalent of nukes at her side, whose family has a history of madness and burning people alive and surprise surprise Sansa knows she did just that by burning alive the Tarlys and the Lannister army and to add to her troubles, she fooled Jon into falling in love with her. Sansa remembers what happened the last time Theon went to "save" Robb by going to the Iron Islands. I am sure she remembers how they were backstabbed by an ally Bolton and now she should immediately trust a person she knows nothing about to help "save" them. I can tell you for certain that Sansa trusts no one beyond her family members after what happened to her family  

And again she caused a problem by coming to help them by giving a dragon to the dead army. Had Jon not gone to her for help, sure his forces would be less but then the NK wouldn’t have had a dragon or thousands of Dothraki undead to revive making things equal again

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52 minutes ago, SeanF said:

It doesn't matter.  Tywin condoned it, just as he condoned the murder of Elia and every other atrocity that Ser Gregor carried out on his behalf.  

Prior to the Kings Landing inferno, Dany never perpetrated the kinds of atrocities that both Lannisters and Starks carried out in the Riverlands.

:blink: I just told you he didn't.

Elia's child had to die in order to secure the Iron Throne. That's irrelevant. Again you're giving example on individual crimes of soldiers, that's irrelevant as well with Daenerys's no prisoner policy.

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The comical aspect is this thread’s question was never answered. If Jon goes with the wildlings, what does he do after that? We don’t know. 

‘If Jon stays at the NW, what does he do? We don’t know as the NW doesn’t have a purpose. 

So we don’t know the purpose of the main protagonist of the story at the end while we know the purpose of every other character. 

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27 minutes ago, RYShh said:

:blink: I just told you he didn't.

Elia's child had to die in order to secure the Iron Throne. That's irrelevant. Again you're giving example on individual crimes of soldiers, that's irrelevant as well with Daenerys's no prisoner policy.

I get what you're trying to do.  You attribute the worst possible motives to Daenerys, while excusing her opponents when they do worse.  So, for some reason, Daenerys giving Lannisters the choice to switch sides or die is heinous, but Lannisters torturing and massacring prisoners, or Starks murdering civilians in the Riverlands is  somehow all the fault of Ser Gregor Clegane or Roose Bolton or Locke, and nothing to do with their commanders.  

A commander who allows his lieutenants to carry out atrocities is as guilty as his lieutenants.  These are not acts being carried out by obscure underlings.

I don't  think your comment about Elia and her children merits a response.

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43 minutes ago, Kaapstad said:

Arya seemed normal to me. 

Yes I agree. Sansa should immediately fall to Dany’s feet and trust a foreign invader with the equivalent of nukes at her side, whose family has a history of madness and burning people alive and surprise surprise Sansa knows she did just that by burning alive the Tarlys and the Lannister army and to add to her troubles, she fooled Jon into falling in love with her. Sansa remembers what happened the last time Theon went to "save" Robb by going to the Iron Islands. I am sure she remembers how they were backstabbed by an ally Bolton and now she should immediately trust a person she knows nothing about to help "save" them. I can tell you for certain that Sansa trusts no one beyond her family members after what happened to her family  

And again she caused a problem by coming to help them by giving a dragon to the dead army. Had Jon not gone to her for help, sure his forces would be less but then the NK wouldn’t have had a dragon or thousands of Dothraki undead to revive making things equal again

LOL!  Dany did wrong when she tried to save the North from the Army of the Dead!

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2 minutes ago, SeanF said:

LOL!  Dany did wrong when she tried to save the North from the Army of the Dead!

Not saying it’s wrong. I am saying she didn’t improve matters any. Dany does not come. The undead army is smaller with no dragon and it’s difficult to get past the wall. Dany helps them, they get a giant dragon raining hell from the sky, who feels no pain and a massive Dothraki horde to bolster their strength. 

 

Dany maintained status quo. Her being there didn’t help matters at all. They lost even with her before Arya came in. 

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59 minutes ago, Kaapstad said:

Are you serious? You realise she crucified 163 nobles with zero proof against them? And it’s proven that they had nothing to do with it later when it was the Yunkai masters who were responsible. She fed one to her own dragon just for sport. She mercilessly killed all the nobles in Astapor. She killed all the Khal leaders by burning them alive so that she could add them to her own force. When she came to Westeros, she burnt an entire Lannister army alive. 

 

Those dead children on the road to Meereen didn't crucify themselves. The poor slave traders of Astapor weren't going to free the Unsullied if she just asked them nicely.  The Khals who threatened to rape her were unlikely to be amenable to reason.  The men who died on the Goldroad were soldiers killed in war.

Feeding a nobleman to Drogon who might well have been innocent was indeed a cruel and unusual punishment, which can't be defended. 

 

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13 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I get what you're trying to do.  You attribute the worst possible motives to Daenerys, while excusing her opponents when they do worse.  So, for some reason, Daenerys giving Lannisters the choice to switch sides or die is heinous, but Lannisters torturing and massacring prisoners, or Starks murdering civilians in the Riverlands is  somehow all the fault of Ser Gregor Clegane or Roose Bolton or Locke, and nothing to do with their commanders.  

A commander who allows his lieutenants to carry out atrocities is as guilty as his lieutenants.

I don't  think your comment about Elia and her children merits a response.

What I am trying to do is hoping that you can understand even ''evil'' Tywin took prisoners, but not Daenerys, so you can realize what she has done. Why do you think Varys and Tyrion started to plot against Daenerys? Right after she refused to take prisoners and burn them alive if they don't bend the knee. But it seems you will never understand so I am wasting my time.

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1 minute ago, RYShh said:

What I am trying to do is hoping that you can understand that even ''evil'' Tywin took prisoners but not Daenerys, so you can realize what she has done. Why do you think Varys and Tyrion started to plot against Daenerys? Right after she refused to took prisoners and burn them alive if they don't bend the knee. But it seems you will never understand so I am wasting my time in here.

You are not arguing in good faith, so I suspect you are wasting your time.

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What does this stupid back and forth have to do with the OP?

This thread has turned into the the worst thread I have seen on this forum.  If you need more than 3 post to prove your point, it is time to give it up.

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1 hour ago, Raebo said:

What does this stupid back and forth have to do with the OP?

This thread has turned into the the worst thread I have seen on this forum. 

Sweet summer child, you probably never knew the time when fans of the Frey family, Janos Slynt, Bowen Marsh, used to appear in all the threads! 

:P

j/k

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1 hour ago, Raebo said:

What does this stupid back and forth have to do with the OP?

This thread has turned into the the worst thread I have seen on this forum.  If you need more than 3 post to prove your point, it is time to give it up.

Purpose of Jon Snow, rightfully killing Daenerys Stormborn one of his reasons to exist. And we are proving that Daenerys's evil nature was always there, she completely turned to that direction at some point also, probably during the Season 6.

As Kit Harington said;

"But if you track [Daenerys’s] story all the way back, she does some terrible things. She crucifies people. She burns people alive. This has been building. So, we have to say to the audience: ‘You’re in denial about this woman as well. You knew something was wrong. You’re culpable, you cheered her on.’"

Of course some will never agree with this so it's a waste of time to explaining to them, maybe they will understand a couple of years later, after they cool down.

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14 hours ago, Nowy Tends said:

I have already answered to that in a previous thread: your suggestion doesn't make sense, it seems you don't understand the context, and don't bother to address me, I'm not interested. 

 

Is this mean we can't trust your words? :dunno: Ok, thanks for proving me right.

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3 hours ago, SeanF said:

Those dead children on the road to Meereen didn't crucify themselves. The poor slave traders of Astapor weren't going to free the Unsullied if she just asked them nicely.  The Khals who threatened to rape her were unlikely to be amenable to reason.  The men who died on the Goldroad were soldiers killed in war.

No they don't but how are you any better then them by randomly crucifying any noble you find? As I said she gave the punishment to her enemies which she thought was right. There was no trial or anything of the sort. That's why I say even Cersei is a better queen then her.

I have no issues with her freeing the Unsullied but why did she order them to kill every noble in Astapor, every single one even those not guilty? And again you may call their castration cruel but the slave masters trained them to be deadly fighters basically doing Dany's job for her and she uses these slave soldiers in battle and doesn't give them anything. Why use slave soldiers if you are against slavery? She didn't free them. They were freed from one tyrant and handed over to another.

It was the equivalent of a scenario where Dany gives Drogon to that slavelord and he immediately orders his Unsullied to kill Dany. It was a shakedown. You just liked it because she did it to bad people. But it was still a double cross

There was no reason to kill them all when all they were doing was threatening her. She toppled over one candle and she showed them how she couldn't be burnt. That should have been sufficient warning to them.

That was no "War". It was a slaughter. She had already won but she kept coming back to exterminate every single Lannister soldier. 

Quote

As Tywin Lannister used to say "When your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. When they go to their knees, however, you must help them back to their feet. Elsewise no man will ever bend the knee to you"

Dany didn't listen and she lost, losing the faith of everyone she knew.

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40 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

:lol: Sorry but you're not proving anything, specially when you bring Visery's death as an evidence, again and again…

 

Its amazing how so many were duped by GRRM into rooting for Stalin with tits. He should get an award for this character alone.

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