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What was the purpose of Jon Snow?

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Maybe he was meant to be a tragic figure rather then a hero.  He fell in love with 2 women and because he chose duty over love they both died in his arms.  Perhaps we are supposed to read more into that?  Maybe the first time was some sort of warning and he was supposed to choose love the second time?  If Dany never felt betrayed by Jon somehow she wouldn't have turned out the way she did?  It seems like a big stretch to me if that was supposed to be it.  Then there is the whole concept that just trying to be a good person in a corrupt power mad world is not enough to make a leader.  Maybe he was supposed to learn to be more pragmatic like Tyrion but since he didn't he wound up a failure like Ned?  The world is just too corrupted by power for a person like him.  It would be a very pessimistic statement to send.   

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26 minutes ago, kjl473 said:

Maybe he was meant to be a tragic figure rather then a hero.  He fell in love with 2 women and because he chose duty over love they both died in his arms.  Perhaps we are supposed to read more into that?  Maybe the first time was some sort of warning and he was supposed to choose love the second time?  If Dany never felt betrayed by Jon somehow she wouldn't have turned out the way she did?  It seems like a big stretch to me if that was supposed to be it.  Then there is the whole concept that just trying to be a good person in a corrupt power mad world is not enough to make a leader.  Maybe he was supposed to learn to be more pragmatic like Tyrion but since he didn't he wound up a failure like Ned?  The world is just too corrupted by power for a person like him.  It would be a very pessimistic statement to send.   

This is another obvious point, Jon could have exerted more influence if he wanted to or at least pretended to care enough to bang her and try to make her feel Westeros wasn't completely antagonistic (honestly who wouldn't, aunt or not?). Heros find a way...he seemed determined to fail at every step.

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2 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

To the contrary: it meant everything. Just for one it proved that Dany was so power-mad that when she realized that the Iron Throne wasn't really hers by right the way she had always claimed, she showed her true colors by trying to plough on ahead and get Jon to support her lie about it.

So you think Jon’s hidden identity, which Martin thought was so central to the story that he tested D&D on it before making a decision on whether to give them the show, only served to make Dany paranoid... just to reveal that Dany is power hungry? That’s storytelling of the worst sort and I trust Martin’s storytelling abilities enough to say that this won’t be the reason for the whole R+L=J plot in the books. Martin wants his books to be viewed favorably for posterity. D&D, on the other hand, didn’t know what the hell they were doing and just wanted to pack their backs and jump ship.

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9 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

Seriously, can you picture Jon Snow governing?  I can't.  Ranging in the north.  Protecting innocents. Being the defense against all evil.  Yes.  Governing?  No.

If you’ve read the books you’ll know that Jon was “governing” the NW pretty well till a bunch of bigots and small-minded folk decided to stab him. We’ve got several chapters of him just doing that. No sword swinging or fighting like show!Jon. He’s making peace with the wildings, navigating/negotiating with Stannis first, then Selyse, he’s trying to appease the senior men at the NW, he’s finding ways to man the abandoned castles, he’s taking stock of the supplies, he’s getting things of value and hostages from the wildlings, he’s negotiating with Iron Bank to get money (which he manages to accomplish) to buy supplies, and on and on.  In fact, book!Jon is not exceptional at sword fighting.  And as recently as a month or so ago, Martin as an example of a good leader for kids to emulate mentions Jon. No point mentioning Jon if Martin didn’t intent for him to lead or “govern”. 

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Posted (edited)

The purpose of Jon Snow is to have a character in a story that KNEW NOTHING and LUCKED his way through life.

  • Son of dead parents, but fostered in Winterfell by a noble rich family ... not earned, just luck
  • Steward to the NW's Lord Commander only because of his family ... not earned, just luck
  • On a recon mission he decides not to kill a female wildling, and it eventually helped him infiltrate the wildlings as a spy ... not earned, just luck
  • As a virgin, he intentionally joined a brotherhood that cannot get laid, but gets laid anyways for his duty as a spy ... not earned, just luck
  • Would be eventually doomed in the Battle Beneath the Wall, but Stannis rescues the NW ... not earned, just luck
  • After Stannis saves Jon, he becomes the NW Lord Commander, but only after Samwell spoke up for him ... not earned, just luck
  • Get assassinated by his own NW's brothers, but Melisandre was able to resurrect him ... not earned, just luck
  • Would be eventually doomed in the Battle of the Bastards, but Sansa and the Vale rescues him ... not earned, just luck
  • After Sansa and the Vale saves Jon, he becomes King of the North because all Ned's heirs are dead or supposedly dead ... not earned, just luck
  • Goes on a stupid mission to kidnap a zombie, gets in trouble, and gets rescued by Dany and Benjen ... not earned, just luck
  • Would be eventually doomed in the Long Night, but Arya rescues him ... not earned, just luck
  • Was barely threaten by enemy soldiers in the Dany's Sack of King's Landing because Dany did all the work ... not earned, just luck
  • Kills Dany easily because she kind of forgot to put guards with her inside the Iron Throne room ... not earned, just luck
  • Assassinates the Queen, gives himself up, but does not get executed ... instead he gets sent back North, the place he loves ... not earned, just luck

Lucky bastard.

Edited by The Map Guy

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, teej6 said:

And as recently as a month or so ago, Martin as an example of a good leader for kids to emulate mentions Jon. No point mentioning Jon if Martin didn’t intent for him to lead or “govern”. 

Hmmm ... I read the opposite some where else and some time long ago. If I can recall correctly, GRRM was being interviewed comparing Jon & Joffery as role models, and GRRM said Jon was not suppose to be a good role model.

 

33 minutes ago, teej6 said:

he’s negotiating with Iron Bank to get money (which he manages to accomplish) to buy supplies

If I can recall correctly, Jon didn't have a good plan of paying them back and he knows it lol

Edited by The Map Guy

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

Hmmm ... I read the opposite some where else and some time long ago. If I can recall correctly, GRRM was being interviewed comparing Jon & Joffery as role models, and GRRM said Jon was not suppose to be a good role model.

Actually, quite the opposite. It was an interview in the WSJ. He said Jon was a good role model for kids.

Here’s the quote:

Quote

He won’t go so far as to relate the events in his books to today’s politics, but he hopes that Westeros offers us lessons, including the ways that power can corrupt. “Maybe some kid who is reading it now…will be a president or senator, and the lessons of Westeros will have been incorporated into his worldview and affect some decision he makes 20 or 30 years from now.” Then he pauses to think. “It depends on who he models himself on, Jon Snow or a new Joffrey,” citing a noble hero and a sadistic boy king. “We don’t need anyone modeling themselves after Joffrey.”

 

Edited by teej6

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, teej6 said:

Actually, quite the opposite. It was an interview in the WSJ. He said Jon was a good role model for kids.

Eh I guess I read it wrong.

But I know the inspiration behind the quote "You know nothing Jon Snow" and it suggests that Jon was originally written to not know anything ... not a trait a good role model should have lol. 

Edited by The Map Guy

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7 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

If I can recall correctly, Jon didn't have a good plan of paying them back and he knows it lol

It’s a loan he’s taking and the Iron Bank representative isn’t stupid. Tycho Nestores gave Jon the loan as he is betting on Stannis and he knows Stannis means to defend the realm including the NW. Whatever the case maybe, Jon negotiated and convinced the IB rep to loan him money, which goes to my point of him have governing skills.

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3 minutes ago, teej6 said:

Whatever the case maybe, Jon negotiated and convinced the IB rep to loan him money, which goes to my point of him have governing skills.

I don't wanna jump too off-topic but business negotiation and governing are totally different things ... except in the mind of the current US president

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10 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

Eh ... maybe so. Maybe I heard my version a long long time ago.

But I know the inspiration behind the quote "You know nothing Jon Snow" and it suggests that Jon was originally written to not know anything ... not a trait a good role model should have lol. 

Do you have a quote or are you just speculating? And how would you know the inspiration behind “You know nothing Jon Snow”? Provide a quote or anything to back your statements otherwise it seems like you are just pulling it out of thin air like many of the other so called theories you post. Anyway, I quoted something GRRM said a few months ago, but you go ahead and believe your own head canon.

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2 minutes ago, teej6 said:

Do you have a quote or are you just speculating? And how would you know the inspiration behind “You know nothing Jon Snow”? Provide a quote or anything to back your statements otherwise it seems like you are just pulling it out of thin air like many of the other so called theories you post. Anyway, I quoted something GRRM said a few months ago, but you go ahead and believe your own head canon.

No, I probably saw the same quote you listed and misread it months ago. My fault. And I can't cite my source for "You know nothing Jon Snow." It's a long wacky explanation and I may get banned for it.

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

And I can't cite my source for "You know nothing Jon Snow." It's a long wacky explanation and I may get banned for it.

Goodness gracious! Your “source”? What are you going to say next? You know the plumber who worked in GRRM’s house and he happened to read GRRM’s notes? 

Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t you the same poster who had a thread about cracking some big mystery and wanted a council to be formed so that they could come to a determination whether by revealing your big secret you were revealing something GRRM doesn’t want revealed? How did that turn out for you? IIRC, you had nothing, and went out with a whimper. I don’t mean to be rude but it’s hard to take someone seriously after that.

Edited by teej6

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3 minutes ago, teej6 said:

It’s a loan he’s taking and the Iron Bank representative isn’t stupid. Tycho Nestores gave Jon the loan as he is betting on Stannis and he knows Stannis means to defend the realm including the NW. Whatever the case maybe, Jon negotiated and convinced the IB rep to loan him money, which goes to my point of him have governing skills.

Tycho lending to Stannis was just standard IB way of getting back at those in arrears. However, lending to NW is in my opinion a miracle development. For a basically non profit, poor, declining order (filled with desperate people who would rather not be there) such as the NW to get a IB loan is once in a century. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, The Map Guy said:

The purpose of Jon Snow is to have a character in a story that KNEW NOTHING and LUCKED his way through life.

  • Son of dead parents, but fostered in Winterfell by a noble rich family ... not earned, just luck
  • Steward to the NW's Lord Commander only because of his family ... not earned, just luck
  • On a recon mission he decides not to kill a female wildling, and it eventually helped him infiltrate the wildlings as a spy ... not earned, just luck
  • As a virgin, he intentionally joined a brotherhood that cannot get laid, but gets laid anyways for his duty as a spy ... not earned, just luck
  • Would be eventually doomed in the Battle Beneath the Wall, but Stannis rescues the NW ... not earned, just luck
  • After Stannis saves Jon, he becomes the NW Lord Commander, but only after Samwell spoke up for him ... not earned, just luck
  • Get assassinated by his own NW's brothers, but Melisandre was able to resurrect him ... not earned, just luck
  • Would be eventually doomed in the Battle of the Bastards, but Sansa and the Vale rescues him ... not earned, just luck
  • After Sansa and the Vale saves Jon, he becomes King of the North because all Ned's heirs are dead or supposedly dead ... not earned, just luck
  • Goes on a stupid mission to kidnap a zombie, gets in trouble, and gets rescued by Dany and Benjen ... not earned, just luck
  • Would be eventually doomed in the Long Night, but Arya rescues him ... not earned, just luck
  • Was barely threaten by enemy soldiers in the Dany's Sack of King's Landing because Dany did all the work ... not earned, just luck
  • Kills Dany easily because she kind of forgot to put guards with her inside the Iron Throne room ... not earned, just luck
  • Assassinates the Queen, gives himself up, but does not get executed ... instead he gets sent back North, the place he loves ... not earned, just luck

Lucky bastard.

He got lucky thrice with Dany. No guards inside. Then the dragon somehow became intelligent and didn’t kill him for killing its mother and Grey Worm doesn’t kill him on sight despite showing he was willing to when Jon was trying to stop him from executing Lannister soldiers.

You know I thought this story was unconventional as they showed us the death of Ned Stark, Robb Stark and his mother, his sisters being tortured. Turns out I didn’t know the name of the protagonist was Jon Snow. If you think about it that way, it’s just another conventional story like Harry Potter. Everyone gets their ass kicked but the MC miraculously survives. 

Edited by Kaapstad

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Jon was pitiful over the last two seasons. Far from being the mystical firebrand we were promised, he was actually the roundabout means whereby the wall came down (what a shit-show of egregrious writing that entire plot was). In the book I reckon it'll be

Spoiler

a live dragon controlled by Euron's horn

 

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14 hours ago, Techmaester said:

This is another obvious point, Jon could have exerted more influence if he wanted to or at least pretended to care enough to bang her and try to make her feel Westeros wasn't completely antagonistic (honestly who wouldn't, aunt or not?). Heros find a way...he seemed determined to fail at every step.

You want him to bang her after she threatens to kill his sister in front of him?

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1 hour ago, Kaapstad said:

You want him to bang her after she threatens to kill his sister in front of him?

I'm talking from the start of episode 1 onwards, but sure even if she threatened to kill his cousin for betrayal. I think it could have been worked out in a reasonable way.

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6 minutes ago, Techmaester said:

I'm talking from the start of episode 1 onwards, but sure even if she threatened to kill his cousin for betrayal. I think it could have been worked out in a reasonable way.

He did bang her episode one. They had sexy time at the waterfall then Sam ruined everything. He had to know they were banging. 

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3 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

He did bang her episode one. They had sexy time at the waterfall then Sam ruined everything. He had to know they were banging. 

I'm talking post Aegon reveal, IIRC this was episode one.

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