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AncalagonTheBlack

Football: 'Let's talk about six, baby'

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Posted (edited)

Nah, I know you're not pinning it all on him. The thing is though your team is basically fucked if you have *one* creator and everything goes through him - you need to create an environment where that responsibility is shared, and United don't really have that.

Any team with just one creator will suffer, no matter who the player is - the best example was Fabregas for us, he was great, but he sometimes had *everything* go through him and that limited his effectiveness until players like Nasri, RvP came into the side.

Edited by Raja

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said:

I don't know, that sounds an awful lot like you're saying everyone else is shit and it's not Pogba's fault. Pogba really did have a lot of meh games last season though.


It's not that everyone else is shit, but almost no-one else is a creative player. And that's the problem. Near enough every other creative player of anything like his caliber in the world has players alongside him who can also make things happen, so even if he's not doing the great things he can do the little things and they're in a position to lay the final bit on. With Pogba he does those little things all the time (even under Jose when he was demoralised as shit he rarely had games where he actually did nothing) but no-one else was there to take on that burden so when he wasn't brilliant we turned utterly tame creatively.

Don't get me wrong he could certainly stand to prove his consistency more but he was given absurd amounts of responsibility. Like Raja says, when that happens it does limit your effectiveness. Him and Hazard are gonna thrive if they end up in a team with each other to feed off, it's gonna be fucking silly.


eta: we should be looking at someone who is provenly steady and reliable, it just shouldn't be instead of Pogba,

Edited by polishgenius

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17 hours ago, Raja said:

Eh - rather sell Mustafi & use that money than selling Ozil, the latter can still contribute as opposed to the former.

Also - maguire is such an overhyped CB, can't believe united want to pay 70 million for him.

First you are paying, what would be ludicrous wages for a first team regular, for a fringe player.

Second. Yeah, that's why I use Maguire now a measurement for ludicrous transfer fees. It used to be a Pogba (whose 100m fee now seems almost reasonable in this market), or Neymar. But I decided to shift it now to a Maguire.

14 hours ago, polishgenius said:

If we sell Pogba and get a steady 7.5 without adding other creative players into the mix as well he'll run into the exact same problem as Pogba did in which he could have a perfectly good game but if he doesn't outright make all the final passes we'll look shit and he'll seem like he's playing a 5 when he's actually doing perfectly fine.

So you actually need Özil? :laugh::leaving:

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8 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

It used to be a Pogba (whose 100m fee now seems almost reasonable in this market), or Neymar. But I decided to shift it now to a Maguire.



Shift it to Sean Longstaff, the next rumoured player on our midfield transfer targets list


for


fifty


million


pounds.

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I doubt we pay anywhere near that. The reliable journos said United were considering a £25m bid. That was a while ago though and reliable journos for Newcastle have said that to date no contact has been made for the player. That £50m sounds like a made up number by the tabloids and/or an article written by persons unknown citing 'sky sources'. 

 

Chelsea get another great price for a player. A deal with Atleti has been completed for a reported £50m. 

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1 hour ago, polishgenius said:



Shift it to Sean Longstaff, the next rumoured player on our midfield transfer targets list


for


fifty


million


pounds.

Dude, there you have to consider the premium for the porn name. So that's actually a bargain.

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On 7/5/2019 at 8:55 AM, Raja said:

Eh - I'd take getting rid of Mustafi over Ozil every day of the week if it means Mustafi isn't anywhere close to our starting 11.

It was also a joke.

Last rumor I saw was Fenerbache in for Ozil, which please god take him off our books. But yeah, the farther Mustafi is from our first 11 the better. 

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Nah - he'll stay. After losing Ramsey & Welbeck, I don't think there will be much of a push from the club to make him go.

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21 minutes ago, Raja said:

Nah - he'll stay. After losing Ramsey & Welbeck, I don't think there will be much of a push from the club to make him go.

But those were not money making deals. If someone offers to pay a good transfer fee and at least some of his wages you don't think the "braintrust" would make that move? 

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Those are big ifs! He loves London, his wages are really high, which means no one will really take them on. I just don't see it happening, and we've had a lot of links to turkish sides that haven't panned out.

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The key for Ozil is getting a credible buyer. They have to want to pay those high wages, and he has to want to move to them. The club also has to want to sell, which it would for the right price, but getting those first two conditions will be difficult for a 30 year-old playmaker who is mercurial at best. You take inconsistency when they're young, not when they're old and on high wages.

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36 minutes ago, Raja said:

Those are big ifs! He loves London, his wages are really high, which means no one will really take them on. I just don't see it happening, and we've had a lot of links to turkish sides that haven't panned out.

Call me a practical optimist. I have little faith in our management to make smart football related moves, but I’m hoping someone will make an offer that appeals to their financial sense. Haha 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Joey Crows said:

Last rumor I saw was Fenerbache in for Ozil, which please god take him off our books. But yeah, the farther Mustafi is from our first 11 the better. 

Don't believe any of the rumours with Turkish clubs. These clubs cannot afford Ozil unless Arsenal let him go for peanuts and he agrees to take at least a 70% wage cut as well.  

The Turkish first division clubs are in massive debt (around €2.3 billion which is 4x more than what the 18 clubs combined generate in gross revenue). The big four account for two-thirds of that debt and earlier in the year Besiktas, Fenerbahce and Galatasaray had to seek help with their debts. The football federation with help from the country's banking association are working on restructuring the debt and clubs are going to be run under a much stricter financial regime.

 

Edited by Consigliere

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Messi comes off as a pathetic sore loser saying “the competition is rigged for Brazil” like I get the officiating has been bad but if he had actually watched Brazil’s previous games before the Argentina one I don’t think there’s anyway he could think that. 

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Posted (edited)

Actually looking forward to the US v. Mexico tonight in the final.  Kind of curious to me how the US has historically done kind of OK versus Mexico on this tournament when at the World Cup level there's no comparison and Mexico has easily been the better side.

As much as football has gotten easier to watch in the US of late I'm surprised that there's no English language broadcast of this Brazil v. Peru final coming on right now (that I can find) but relieved to at least have the Spanish broadcast.  

ETA:  Peru cannot get anything going.  

Edited by Triskele

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This transfer window is garbage. Arsenal can't unload anyone and has no money to bring in quality they need. On top of that, it's not very fun watching players we've sold for like 2m a year or two ago go for 15-25m. 

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On 7/6/2019 at 9:06 AM, Consigliere said:

Chelsea get another great price for a player. A deal with Atleti has been completed for a reported £50m. 

I believe we bought him for 60M, read we sold him for 58M. Either or, I'll consider us lucky to sell him for that much when he was an utter train wreck for 80% of his stint in London. Besides the header palooza he went on the first month or so in 2017, all he did flop, called for offsides, and miss goals. Mental midget. They must think more of him in his homeland. 

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, l2 0 5 5 said:

I believe we bought him for 60M, read we sold him for 58M. Either or, I'll consider us lucky to sell him for that much when he was an utter train wreck for 80% of his stint in London. Besides the header palooza he went on the first month or so in 2017, all he did flop, called for offsides, and miss goals. Mental midget. They must think more of him in his homeland. 

Total fee is £58m/€65m (€58m transfer fee + the €7m loan fee that was paid in January). A pretty great price for a player who had no future at the club and desperately wanted out as well. 

Edited by Consigliere

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3 minutes ago, Mark Antony said:

 

Wow, that's a huge amount for an 18 year-old. Must mean he has plenty of potential, but it would take guts to put an 18 year old straight into the first team. 

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