Why didn't Jon simply refuse to accept banishment?

[RYShh]

3 minutes ago, Kaapstad said:

Ramsay was going to attack the NW to kill Jon. How would he do that if it was not under his jurisdiction

Why are you giving an example from Ramsay anyway?  Jon himself gave up being a NW recruit after getting stabbed in a mutiny. And no one tried to hang him or stop him from doing that.

Good thing that Grey Worm didn't know that, otherwise he wouldn't accept that. 

[teej6]

4 minutes ago, Kaapstad said:

Ramsay was going to attack the NW to kill Jon. How would he do that if it was not under his jurisdiction

Because Ramsay is a full blown lunatic who thinks he can do whatever he wants. In the books, the fact that Ramsay challenged the life of the LC, was one of the impetus for Jon to give his speech to his men and respond to Ramsay’s attack on his person. You do know that Jon was going to answer Ramsay’s challenge right before he got stabbed, right? 

[Kaapstad]

Just now, El Guapo said:

That is not how it works. The Targaryens haven't sat on the Iron Throne in 20 years. There is no line of succession any longer. Both of them are claimants at this point and both would have to take back the throne by force. 

For 8 seasons Dany has been saying the only reason she wants the throne is because of line of succession. So using her own logic against her, if the line of succession is her yardstick then Jon has a superior claim to her and so can kill her if she tries to take it from him.  The Baratheons only got the throne after supposedly every other Targaryen was killed off. 

[RYShh]

4 minutes ago, teej6 said:

Because Ramsay is a full blown lunatic who thinks he can do whatever he wants. The fact that he challenged the life of the LC, was one of the impetus for Jon to give his speech to his men and respond to Ramsay attack on his person. You do know that Jon was going to answer Ramsay’s challenge right before he got stabbed, right? 

Is Jon lunatic too?  He gave up on being a NW recruit after the mutiny and no one tried to stop him because he had enough help from the wildlings and NW recruits loved him.

If Jon with that kind of help could do that, then nothing stops a royal command or a King/Queen.

[Kaapstad]

4 minutes ago, RYShh said:

Why are you giving an example from Ramsay anyway?  Jon himself gave up being a NW recruit after getting stabbed in a mutiny. And no one tried to hang him or stop him from doing that.

Good thing that Grey Worm didn't know that, otherwise he wouldn't accept that. 

Yeah but that’s because Jon exploited a loophole in the vow. The vow is for life. He died. So the vow became void. So after he is resurrected he doesn’t have to follow it. 

[RYShh]

3 minutes ago, Kaapstad said:

Yeah but that’s because Jon exploited a loophole in the vow. The vow is for life. He died. So the vow became void. So after he is resurrected he doesn’t have to follow it. 

The point is no one could stop him or blame him for doing that. No need to exaggerate the vows of Kingsguard or NW, royal command is more important.

[El Guapo]

1 minute ago, Kaapstad said:

For 8 seasons Dany has been saying the only reason she wants the throne is because of line of succession. So using her own logic against her, if the line of succession is her yardstick then Jon has a superior claim to her and so can kill her if she tries to take it from him.  The Baratheons only got the throne after supposedly every other Targaryen was killed off. 

No. The Baratheons got the throne because they won the war and conquered King Landing.  And no every Targaryen was not killed off as Viserys and Daenerys were still alive and kicking.

Jon never had the throne to begin with. The only person Dany took the throne from was Cersei.

[teej6]

5 minutes ago, RYShh said:

Is Jon lunatic too?  He gave up on being a NW recruit after the mutiny and no one tried to stop him because he had enough help from the wildlings and NW recruits loved him.

If Jon with that kind of help could do that, then nothing stops a royal command or a King/Queen.

I was talking about the books not the show.

[King Jon Snow Stark]

8 minutes ago, RYShh said:

Is Jon lunatic too?  He gave up on being a NW recruit after the mutiny and no one tried to stop him because he had enough help from the wildlings and NW recruits loved him.

If Jon with that kind of help could do that, then nothing stops a royal command or a King/Queen.

That’s ultimately why it doesn’t matter what Jon does now. He can tell the NW peeps he will come back once a month to check his mail and no one will stop him. 

[RYShh]

Just now, teej6 said:

I was talking about the books. Don’t have an opinion on what was shown on the show.

 Now I know you're totally trolling us. This is show forums.

[RYShh]

1 minute ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

That’s it ultimately it doesn’t matter what Jon does now. He can tell the NW peeps he will come back once a month to check his mail and no one will stop him. 

Yup, that's my point. Not sure why people are exaggerating the vows of Kingsguard or NW, they are nothing if the crown decides otherwise.

[aceluby]

22 hours ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

The NW is independent of the north. The land and castles they live in belong to the NW not the north. People can be sentenced or choose to go there but once they take their oath they only answer to the Lord Commander. 

Absolutely untrue.  Ned Stark executed a NW man in the very first episode for breaking his oath.

[RYShh]

Just now, aceluby said:

Absolutely untrue.  Ned Stark executed a NW man in the very first episode for breaking his oath.

In the name of King Robert, yeah. Kings can command NW and execute them as well.

[teej6]

10 minutes ago, RYShh said:

 Now I know you're totally trolling us. This is show forums.

Really? I didn’t know [insert sarcasm font]. I was responding to your ridiculous and unsubstantiated comments relating to the books. And please stop being rude and immature by referring to people that disagree with you as trolls. I see you’re new to this forum, but as an FYI, people are usually civil to each other here.

[RYShh]

2 minutes ago, teej6 said:

Really? I didn’t know [insert sarcasm font]. I was responding to your ridiculous and unsubstantiated comments relating to the books. And please stop being rude and immature by referring to people that disagree with you as trolls. I see you’re new to this forum, but as an FYI, people are usually civil to each other here.

Sorry, you didn't sound civil when you first quoted me from an old discussion and you belittled me by claiming that I didn't read the books. I mean how could I know Robb's royal command if I didn't read the books? You sounded like trolling to me.

And you're still saying I've ''ridiculous'' comments when I've proved that Robb could actually release a NW recruit just like Lannisters did with Barristan, how is that ''ridiculous'' exactly? And you're talking about being civil?  

And then you say  ''I don't have an opinion about the show'' and we're in the show forums and you don't even know that, what would you think if you were in my place? And I see you edited that part of your post, seriously if this is not trolling I don't know what is.

[NymeriaWarriorQueen]

6 hours ago, legba11 said:

For some reason, the show decided to be coy about Jon's final path.  I assumed since he was wearing his NW cloak, he was still with the NW.  It was an odd choice of a final scene,

Yep..... Jon rides once again beyond the Wall, guiding the surviving Free Folk back to their home.

[Rikard]

2 hours ago, Kaapstad said:

They [the Unsullied and Dothraki?] have no experience to rule Westeros. And you can’t just kill the emissaries at a peace meeting. If they had decided on war, honour bounds them to allow them to leave. That’s also why Cersei didn’t just shoot Dany and Drogon when they came for negotiation when she easily could have. 

A number of specious assumptions that shall not go unchallenged.

No one had experience ruling all of Westeros. The last king who tried, Robert, enjoying a period of peace and the fealty of all the houses, nevertheless made an awful botch of it, dying a cuckold and victim to Cersei’s plotting.

Bran? Most of his life experiences were vicarious. His knowledge of Westeros was limited by the range of the Weirwood. It never extended to the Iron Islands, and was mostly eradicated elsewhere by the First Men and Andals. When GOT begins, weirwoods exist only in the North and beyond the Wall. “The old gods have no power in the south. The weirwoods there were all cut down, thousands of years ago.” — Osha to Bran (A Game of Thrones, Chapter 53, Bran VI). There is no indication that a weirwood existed at the Tower of Joy in Dorne, making suspect Bran’s visions in Season 6.  

Cersei would have been in character by ambushing her guests at the earlier Dragon Pit parley, and she considered doing just that (7/7). But Daenerys came with her surviving dragons and a wight. It would have been very messy had Cersei tried anything. The guests in 8/6 came with nothing. And Grey Worm had no reason to respect etiquette. The Starks had plotted against his Queen, he owed them nothing but hatred. And he needn't kill them. Just hold them until the ransom was paid. The sum evenly distributed among the Seven Kingdoms, the payment could have been accomplished in short order. Or rather just 4 kingdoms. The Iron Islands, the Stormlands and Dorne deserved consideration as they had all sworn allegiance to Daenerys.

[teej6]

33 minutes ago, RYShh said:

Sorry, you didn't sound civil when you first quoted me from an old discussion and you belittled me by claiming that I didn't read the books. I mean how could I know Robb's royal command if I didn't read the books? You sounded like trolling to me.

And you're still saying I've ''ridiculous'' comments when I've proved that Robb could actually release a NW recruit just like Lannisters did with Barristan, how is that ''ridiculous'' exactly? And you're talking about being civil?  

And then you say  ''I don't have an opinion about the show'' and we're in the show forums and you don't even know that, what would you think if you were in my place? And I see you edited that part of your post, seriously if this is not trolling I don't know what is.

You’ve proved nothing of the sort and that’s exactly why I think your comments are “ridiculous” in regards to the books. Did Martin show Jon being released from his NW vows? No. Robb thinks he can, “thinks” being the key word here. As to Barristan, for the umpteenth time, just because it was done for the first time by crazy boy King Joffrey, doesn’t make it the norm. And that’s exactly why Barristan thinks it’s unfair and even Tywin thinks it was stupid.  

As to why I think you haven’t read the books or even if you have, you haven’t read it fully is because of your insistence that NW is not an autonomous/independent body, which anyone who’s read the books would have known. Also you initial argument that the Wall belongs to Sansa is laughable. You can argue that the NW is dependent on the rest of the kingdoms for men and resources, but not that it isn’t independent in its governance. 

And yes, in regards to how they portrayed things on the show, I do not care and can’t make a case definitively on what is shown as they are inconsistent and all over the place. They change things from season to season and one can’t base anything on the show as they keep shifting the goal post and what is canon. But as I said, even in the show, they did not suggest that the NW is governed by the King in Westeros or the Lord of WF. 

There’s a difference between calling a poster’s argument ridiculous and calling someone a troll. Like I said, try and be civil. Everyone who disagrees with you isn’t a troll. 

[RYShh]

2 minutes ago, teej6 said:

You’ve proved nothing of the sort and that’s exactly why I think your comments are “ridiculous” in regards to the books. Did Martin show Jon being released from his NW vows? No. Robb thinks he can, “thinks” being the key word here. As to Barristan, for the umpteenth time, just because it was done for the first time by crazy boy King Joffrey, doesn’t make it the norm. And that’s exactly why Barristan thinks it’s unfair and even Tywin thinks it was stupid.  

As to why I think you haven’t read the books or even if you have, you haven’t read it fully is because of your insistence that NW is not an autonomous/independent body, which anyone who’s read the books would have known. You can argue that the NW is dependent on the rest of the kingdoms for men and resources, but not that it isn’t independent in its governance. 

And yes, in regards to how they portrayed things on the show, I do not care and can’t make a case definitively on what is shown as they are inconsistent and all over the place. They change things from season to season and one can’t base anything on the show as they keep shifting the goal post and what is canon. But as I said, even in the show, they did not suggest that the NW is governed by the King in Westeros or the Lord of WF. 

There’s a difference between calling a poster’s argument ridiculous and calling someone a troll. Like I said, try and be civil. Everyone who disagrees with you isn’t a troll. 

Should I listen to you or should I listen Robb? If he says he can then he would. He even gave an example on how other people easily did.

Or Stannis? Didn't you know Stannis propose the same thing to Jon in the books?

Spoiler

“I have heard all I need to hear of Lady Lannister and her claim.” The king set the cup aside. “You could bring the north to me. Your father’s bannermen would rally to the son of Eddard Stark. Even Lord Too-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse. White Harbor would give me a ready source of supply and a secure base to which I could retreat at need. It is not too late to amend your folly, Snow. Take a knee and swear that bastard sword to me, and rise as Jon Stark, Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North.”

Should I say you didn't read the books?

I didn't say you're trolling because I disagree with you, I said you're trolling because you claim I didn't read the books while I did and then you said ''Don’t have an opinion on what was shown on the show.'' 

(Then you edited that part of your post). We are in the show forum. 

[King Wyman]

Cuz the show turned Jon into a slave to honor, took away his agency, and dumbed him down into oblivion.

They decided him doing anything positive would be “too predictable”, and had to balance out their Disney ending with some sort of “bitter”. 

Should have had him demand trial by combat, win, and then tell everyone to go fuck themselves and head north of the Wall on his own volition.

Or have him lose on purpose and go out on his own terms. 

But no, passive idiot who always does the right thing and gets punished for it it is.