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TheNecromancerofMirkwood

Why didn't Jon simply refuse to accept banishment?

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Posted (edited)

I mean, he is STILL King in the North, which is now an independent kingdom. He is STILL a ruling monarch and his people STILL chose him as their leader. He did what he did for the good of The North and it seems rather bizarre that he would have to bow down before a council composed of Southron lords plus Yara Greyjoy. By what right does the Reach, the Crownlands, the Stormlands, the Westerlands, the Vale, the Iron Islands and Dorne have to dictate the fate of the ruler of an independent kingdom?

I mean, yes, Jon "Muh Queen!" and "I don't want it!" Snow is honorable enough to accept his punishment. But this is just moronic. It doesn't even make sense from the POV of how Westeros operates!

Edited by TheNecromancerofMirkwood
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King of the Six Kingdoms Bran and Queen in the North Sansa decided it, otherwise there was going to war with the Unsullied and Yara Greyjoy, and possibly Dorne could join with the Unsullied and Yara as well, that was the deal, to prevent the war.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, RYShh said:

King of the Six Kingdoms Bran and Queen in the North Sansa decided it, otherwise there was going to war with the Unsullied and Yara Greyjoy, and possibly Dorne could join with the Unsullied and Yara as well, that was the deal, to prevent the war.

It’s a Bran decision because Jon is in the 6 kingdoms. Tyrion tells Jon that Sansa wanted Jon in Winterfell and Grey wanted them to kill Jon. So Bran puts in him the NW as the compromise. 

Edited by King Jon Snow Stark

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34 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

It’s a Bran decision because Jon is in the 6 kingdoms. Tyrion tells Jon that Sansa wanted Jon in Winterfell and Grey wanted them to kill Jon. So Bran puts in him the NW as the compromise. 

It is, but Jon goes to the North, and the Wall belongs to Sansa as well. So it was their consensus, both Bran and Sansa. Otherwise Sansa wouldn't listen them as long as Jon stays at the North.

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4 hours ago, RYShh said:

King of the Six Kingdoms Bran and Queen in the North Sansa decided it, otherwise there was going to war with the Unsullied and Yara Greyjoy, and possibly Dorne could join with the Unsullied and Yara as well, that was the deal, to prevent the war.

When they know he is Aegon Targaryen, he is the rightful king killing an usurper so by the law of the land he did nothing wrong. They won't fight so its only the Unsullied vs the North

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1 hour ago, RYShh said:

It is, but Jon goes to the North, and the Wall belongs to Sansa as well. So it was their consensus, both Bran and Sansa. Otherwise Sansa wouldn't listen them as long as Jon stays at the North. 

But the comical aspect of this is there is zero punishment. No purpose for the NW. So its just a façade he has to keep. He can return to Winterfell anytime as a "ranger" . After all there is nothing to range for.

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8 minutes ago, Kaapstad said:

When they know he is Aegon Targaryen, he is the rightful king killing an usurper so by the law of the land he did nothing wrong. They won't fight so its only the Unsullied vs the North

Yara was going to fight, she wanted the same thing with the Unsullied. Death of Jon Snow. We don't know what Dorne would do or not do, so they couldn't trust them as well, because Dorne pledged their support to Daenerys before they attacked KL. 

It would be the Unsullied + Greyjoys + maybe Dorne vs. the North + maybe Riverlands and the Vale (if Sansa could convince them), so it would be a long war again, and Jon was the prisoner at the hands of Unsullied, they needed to persuade them politically, otherwise if they start to fight they would start with executing Jon Snow.

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For all we know, it's just another moment of 'touched/damaged by power/magic' characters needing to be put aside for a desirable outcome of balance and 'age of man' introduction. The 'exile' as a way to end House Targaryen just looks forced. But in essence it could be 'good job, now away with you, we don't need the reminder of such brutal events'. The way it's done sort of ignores the characters in order to achieve the final result. 

'Plot point for Jon? Check.'

'Now lets get rid of Arya, she was altered through training in the HBW, 'nother Ringbearer type character to send off.'

 

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34 minutes ago, RYShh said:

Yara was going to fight, she wanted the same thing with the Unsullied. Death of Jon Snow. We don't know what Dorne would do or not do, so they couldn't trust them as well, because Dorne pledged their support to Daenerys before they attacked KL. 

It would be the Unsullied + Greyjoys + maybe Dorne vs. the North + maybe Riverlands and the Vale (if Sansa could convince them), so it would be a long war again, and Jon was the prisoner at the hands of Unsullied, they needed to persuade them politically, otherwise if they start to fight they would start with executing Jon Snow.

No one disclosed Jon's identity at the meeting. If they had Yara couldn't kill him nor could Dorne as he was the rightful heir from the get go. One more thing which should be obvious but wasn't mentioned. Drogon was the being closest to Daenerys moreso than anyone else. If he saw fit to forgive Jon and fly away, there shouldn't be anything left to be said

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41 minutes ago, Kaapstad said:

No one disclosed Jon's identity at the meeting. If they had Yara couldn't kill him nor could Dorne as he was the rightful heir from the get go. One more thing which should be obvious but wasn't mentioned. Drogon was the being closest to Daenerys moreso than anyone else. If he saw fit to forgive Jon and fly away, there shouldn't be anything left to be said

They don't care about House Targaryen, especially the Unsullied. Yara also wouldn't care, why would she? You think she would fight for House Targaryen? They were free to do whatever they want, she was even going to follow his father Balon's footsteps, an independent Iron Islands. No, she swear fealty to Daenerys, not to House Targaryen.

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9 hours ago, TheNecromancerofMirkwood said:

I mean, he is STILL King in the North, which is now an independent kingdom. He is STILL a ruling monarch and his people STILL chose him as their leader. He did what he did for the good of The North and it seems rather bizarre that he would have to bow down before a council composed of Southron lords plus Yara Greyjpy. By what right does the Reach, the Crownlands, the Stormlands, the Westerlands, the Vale, the Iron Islands and Dorne have to dictate the fate of the ruler of an independent kingdom?

I mean, yes, Jon "Muh Queen!" and "I don't want it!" Snow is honorable enough to accept his punishment. But this is just moronic. It doesn't even make sense from the POV of how Westeros operates!

I just saw it as a way to keep the peace and avoid further bloodshed and war. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, RYShh said:

It is, but Jon goes to the North, and the Wall belongs to Sansa as well. So it was their consensus, both Bran and Sansa. Otherwise Sansa wouldn't listen them as long as Jon stays at the North.

The NW is independent of the north. The land and castles they live in belong to the NW not the north. People can be sentenced or choose to go there but once they take their oath they only answer to the Lord Commander. 

Edited by King Jon Snow Stark

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17 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

The NW is independent of the north. The land and castles they leave in belong to the NW not the north. People can be sentenced or choose to go there but once they take their oath they only answer to the Lord Commander. 

Speaking of Lord Commander.......It looked like Jon Snow was once again wearing the Lord Commander cloak in that final scene.  I wonder if he was elected Lord Commander again.

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12 minutes ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

Speaking of Lord Commander.......It looked like Jon Snow was once again wearing the Lord Commander cloak in that final scene.  I wonder if he was elected Lord Commander again.

I can’t tell the cloaks apart. I know when he is wearing all black with no little wolves on his clothes then he is NW. 

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50 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

The NW is independent of the north. The land and castles they live in belong to the NW not the north. People can be sentenced or choose to go there but once they take their oath they only answer to the Lord Commander. 

That's true, however now the North is independent they can act differently. Sansa can give a royal pardon to any Night's Watch recruit if she wants. Robb was going to pardon Jon in the books after losing Bran and Rickon, as well as Stannis was going to do the same since he wanted a loyal Warden of the North. If Sansa wants she can do that, so it must be a consensus between all the kings and queens, especially King/Queen in the North is more important since they have the North and the Wall is in the North, they can easily get there unlike the Southern kingdoms can.

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3 minutes ago, RYShh said:

That's true, however now the North is independent they can act differently. Sansa can give a royal pardon to any Night's Watch recruit if she wants. Robb was going to pardon Jon in the books after losing Bran and Rickon, as well as Stannis was going to do the same since he wanted a loyal Warden of the North. If Sansa wants she can do that, so it must be a consensus between all the kings and queens, especially King/Queen in the North is more important since they have the North and the Wall is in the North, they can easily get there unlike the Southern kingdoms can.

I think Jon likes to be at the Wall than be pardoned

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12 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

I can’t tell the cloaks apart. I know when he is wearing all black with no little wolves on his clothes then he is NW. 

In the epilogue it appears he is getting ready for his departure and emerges in the same place he always exited as Lord Commander.  He pauses at the top of the walkway and gazes down at the NW and the wildlings as if he was their leader and in command.   I know he does not have on the Stark cloak that Sansa made him.  When he arrived back at Castle Back it looked like he was wearing that cloak. Guess we will never know for sure.

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17 minutes ago, RYShh said:

That's true, however now the North is independent they can act differently. Sansa can give a royal pardon to any Night's Watch recruit if she wants. Robb was going to pardon Jon in the books after losing Bran and Rickon, as well as Stannis was going to do the same since he wanted a loyal Warden of the North. If Sansa wants she can do that, so it must be a consensus between all the kings and queens, especially King/Queen in the North is more important since they have the North and the Wall is in the North, they can easily get there unlike the Southern kingdoms can.

If the show was continuing I could see a situation where Jon could be pardon after Sansa has established herself as queen. If he is Lord Commander again is there a point of being pardoned. It would be nice for him to be able to choose.

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29 minutes ago, RYShh said:

That's true, however now the North is independent they can act differently. Sansa can give a royal pardon to any Night's Watch recruit if she wants. Robb was going to pardon Jon in the books after losing Bran and Rickon, as well as Stannis was going to do the same since he wanted a loyal Warden of the North. If Sansa wants she can do that, so it must be a consensus between all the kings and queens, especially King/Queen in the North is more important since they have the North and the Wall is in the North, they can easily get there unlike the Southern kingdoms can.

It would be a new precedent and changing thousands of years of history if a king or queen exerted their power to change the rules and oaths of the NW.  Somehow I don’t think Jon would like special treatment just because his relatives have power.  

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11 hours ago, RYShh said:

.......otherwise there was going to war with the Unsullied and Yara Greyjoy

With what army on the part of The Iron Islands? With what fleet (since Drogon annihilated The Iron Fleet)? They're literally the tiniest "kingdom". The Unsullied are INSIDE the walls of Kings Landing while the Northern army is OUTSIDE with all the baggage train and ships.

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