The Last Fox X-men Thread - no spoilers

[WarGalley]

1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I saw a youtube rumours video yesterday suggesting Phase 4 would have 2 big bad villains: Earth based Norman Osborne; Cosmic some dude I've never heard before. So it does seem like Feige has a plan for 2 distinct series of movies that possibly culminate with both series coming together for the Phase 4 finale. Seems like a good idea, and I like the notion of Osborne not being a one and done villain. Interesting he's a Spider-verse villain, so perhaps he'll be introduced in a Spider Man movie and then make the leap across to the MCU. Could be interesting to think about Osborne being a villain through most of phase 4, but when the cosmic threat comes along he winds up temporarily allying with the Avengers. Grey villains are really a lot more interesting. Killmonger, Mysterio (by the look of things), Adrian Toomes (Vulture), even Thanos to a degree all got praise (Mysterio TBC) as being great villains. Magneto is in the same vein (to bring it back to the X-men).

Hate the idea of Norman Osborne appearing again. I was tired of Green Goblin being in 4 consecutive Spiderman movies despite how accurate they might have been to Norman, Harry and Peter's stories. Spiderman has one of the best rogue galleries of them all-- rivaled only by Batman. 

Really I think only Doom or Galactus can top Thanos as a threat. And even then I don't think you can do much better than what they did with Thanos in both Infinity War movies (much less how they farewelled Captain America and Iron man). 

[Darth Richard II]

9 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

No, he really doesn’t. 

He does. Fight me! PISTOLS AT DAWN SIR!

[Darth Richard II]

6 minutes ago, WarGalley said:

Hate the idea of Norman Osborne appearing again. I was tired of Green Goblin being in 4 consecutive Spiderman movies despite how accurate they might have been to Norman, Harry and Peter's stories. Spiderman has one of the best rogue galleries of them all-- rivaled only by Batman. I can't really picture him as an X-Men villain. 

Really I think only Doom or Galactus can top Thanos as a threat. And even then I don't think you can do much better than what they did with Thanos in both Infinity War movies (much less how they farewelled Captain America and Iron man). 

I uh, don't think they are making him an X-Men villain, unless I really misread something.

[Rhom]

22 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

He does. Fight me! PISTOLS AT DAWN SIR!

Why not eye lasers at high noon?

[Trebla]

1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I saw a youtube rumours video yesterday suggesting Phase 4 would have 2 big bad villains: Earth based Norman Osborne; Cosmic some dude I've never heard before.

According to this, the cosmic one will be Michael Korvac who indeed wields the power cosmic which is what the Silver Surfer and Galactus use. He became the villain in a year long arc in the Avengers (1978) comic but I only read the last issue. In that one, he is confronted by the Guardians of the Galaxy (the first time I had heard of them) and the Avengers. That particular team was pretty badass, including 3 of the strongest superheroes on Earth: Thor, Hercules, and Wonder Man. Korvac kills most of the heroes but is nearly defeated by Wonder Man and then Captain America. It finally takes Thor and Mjolnir to finally kill him. As he dies, he naturally resurrects the fallen heroes.

You can read more about him here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korvac

[The Anti-Targ]

28 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

I uh, don't think they are making him an X-Men villain, unless I really misread something.

Indeed. 100% sure when they said "Earth based villain" they meant villain of the earth based avengers: Hulk, Black Panther, new Cap, Bucky etc.

3 minutes ago, Trebla said:

According to this, the cosmic one will be Michael Kovac who indeed wields the power cosmic which is what the Silver Surfer and Galactus use. He became the villain in a year long arc in the Avengers (1978) comic but I only read the last issue. In that one, he is confronted by the Guardians of the Galaxy (the first time I had heard of them) and the Avengers. That particular team was pretty badass, including 3 of the strongest superheroes on Earth: Thor, Hercules, and Wonder Man. Kovac kills most of the heroes but is nearly defeated by Wonder Man and then Captain America. It finally takes Thor and Mjolnir to finally kill him. As he dies, he naturally resurrects the fallen heroes.

You can read more about him here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korvac

Sounds good, though I think the'll need to steer clear of killing and resurrecting a bunch of heroes, since the Infinity Gauntlet dusting was exactly that turned up to 11. Perma-killing one or two who have reached their use-by date would be better. Depending on what Hemsworth wants to do, it might be an opportunity to kill him (Thor, not Hemsworth) off and bring on fem-Thor. As much as it would be a wonderful black eye to the MRAs of the world, Carol Danvers taking up the Thor mantle would be delicious. But if Tessa Thompson sticks around Valkyrie be the natural choice. I'm sure Hemsworth feels a new enthusiasm for Thor with his experience on Ragnarok and Endgame. But he's got to start feeling like he's reached a conclusion with the character by the time the end of Phase 4 rolls around.

Side note, it's a pity MIB international is shaping up to be a stinker. Chris and Tessa's chemistry seems like it couldn't save this movie. So both of them seem to be stuck with the MCU as their pop-culture place to shine. 

[Nictarion]

17 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Why not eye lasers at high noon?

They’re optic blasts. Not lasers. 

[The Anti-Targ]

41 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

They’re optic blasts. Not lasers. 

Trans-dimensional optic blasts, thank-you.

[Jaxom 1974]

The Korvac Saga is a classic Avengers story...it's a great way to incorporate the Guardians again (even if it's the wrong Guardians and they don't deserve the name)...but it really doesn't need the X-Men...

 

[DMC]

2 hours ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

Cyclops, is, if you look at the history of the X-men comics as a whole, from the 1960's to present, comfortably the most important character, way ahead of both Xavier and Magneto, let alone Storm or Wolverine.

 

4 hours ago, red snow said:

And you need to read some of the major cyclops stories so you can have an informed humble opinion as from "no more mutants" onwards they turned him into the most interesting x-character (possibly marvel character in general). [...] I think it was partly to do with making other characters seem cooler (wolverine, gambit etc) by making Cyclops the by the rules loyal soldier.

I generally don't read comics, and never really have even as a kid, doubtful I'm gonna start now.  I agree with the bolded - he's the straight man to make other characters look cooler.  My point is that bland Cyclops is how the vast majority of fans who've only ever seen the cartoon and/or the film series perceive the character, so I have a hard time believing the studio would greenlight a project centered around him.  And it definitely wouldn't pique my interest, all else being equal.

4 hours ago, red snow said:

Well, the MCU template would have Magneto as Xavier's loyal side-kick for two films before becoming the antagonist in the third.

Why do you say that?  I'm fine with that idea, but curious as to why you refer to it as "the MCU template?"

[Darth Richard II]

54 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

The Korvac Saga is a classic Avengers story...it's a great way to incorporate the Guardians again (even if it's the wrong Guardians and they don't deserve the name)...but it really doesn't need the X-Men...

 

There's not going to be any X-men in Phase 4.

[Jaxom 1974]

2 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

There's not going to be any X-men in Phase 4.

Not sure I need any in Phase 4, 5, or 6...but it's ab X-Men thread, so wanted to tie into that with my comment...

[Darth Richard II]

7 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Not sure I need any in Phase 4, 5, or 6...but it's ab X-Men thread, so wanted to tie into that with my comment...

Yeah no I get it, sorry. There's just some people who are CONVINCED that like, Marvel is going to announce like 6 X-Men movies any day now for Phase 4 despite the fact that Feige has stated numerous times they have no plans to use ANY fox stuff for the next 5 years or so minimum, plus if you know how contracts and things work in Hollywood, even if they somehow made all the red tape disappear overnight, it still takes years to get a movie made. And it just drive me nuts. Pet peeve.

[Jaxom 1974]

20 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Yeah no I get it, sorry. There's just some people who are CONVINCED that like, Marvel is going to announce like 6 X-Men movies any day now for Phase 4 despite the fact that Feige has stated numerous times they have no plans to use ANY fox stuff for the next 5 years or so minimum, plus if you know how contracts and things work in Hollywood, even if they somehow made all the red tape disappear overnight, it still takes years to get a movie made. And it just drive me nuts. Pet peeve.

Word.

Let them work with what they have...sownd a couple years or three seeding proper FF stuff into the MCU. Leave the X-Men alone.

It's remarkable how much the X-Men movies over the last ten years or so has really soured me on them in general...hard to even read their comics...including the good stuff from the 70s and 80s...

[Darth Richard II]

Yeah I checked out on the comics after Marvel rebooted everything for like the 5th time in a decade. I don't even know whats going on in the comics at the moment. I think they finally sent the youngins back into the past..maybe>

[red snow]

4 hours ago, DMC said:

 

I generally don't read comics, and never really have even as a kid, doubtful I'm gonna start now.  I agree with the bolded - he's the straight man to make other characters look cooler.  My point is that bland Cyclops is how the vast majority of fans who've only ever seen the cartoon and/or the film series perceive the character, so I have a hard time believing the studio would greenlight a project centered around him.  And it definitely wouldn't pique my interest, all else being equal.

Why do you say that?  I'm fine with that idea, but curious as to why you refer to it as "the MCU template?"

So it turns out the list isnt as long as i thought, if i don't include netflix but Bucky and baron mordo both set out as allies in first film. Harry Osborne always seems to start out as Peter's troubled friend but i admit that isn't MCU.

Oh, i certainly wouldn't expect a Cyclops film. The comics constantly make that mistake. He's an excellent leader but shouldn't really be the main character. A bit like how Xavier isn't really the focus.

3 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

There's not going to be any X-men in Phase 4.

I get your frustration but that's a bold claim if you think there won't be any x-men appearing in phase 4. I'm not talking full blown X-men movies but their characters. I won't include Deadpool as an x-man for this either but unless phase 4 is less than 3 years i would not rule out us seeing a wolverine, Xavier, storm, Rogue, magneto etc appear in a phase 4 film.  

[Kalbear]

It is pretty lame that Cyclops has never gotten anything like a story or anything in the movies. Not once. Given how important he has been in the comics and stories - even the early ones - it's mostly been about Wolvie, Professor X and Magneto. Hell, he isn't even in First Class or DoFP, right? He only shows up in Apocalypse?

That's pretty weak. 

I think in general that's one of the bigger failures of the movies - that they lean so heavily on Wolverine to the exclusion of everyone else, and when they aren't doing that they're leaning heavily on Professor X. Xavier was important, but he barely shows up most of the time and there are massive sets of years of comics where he's not involved in any way. 

[Winterfell is Burning]

6 hours ago, DMC said:

 

I generally don't read comics, and never really have even as a kid, doubtful I'm gonna start now.  I agree with the bolded - he's the straight man to make other characters look cooler.  My point is that bland Cyclops is how the vast majority of fans who've only ever seen the cartoon and/or the film series perceive the character, so I have a hard time believing the studio would greenlight a project centered around him.  And it definitely wouldn't pique my interest, all else being equal.

 

Oh, I'm pretty sure Feige learned the lessons from the failures of the X-men movies, and you won't see a team movie centered in one character like they did on Wolverine or Xavier. That said, if Marvel can sell people on a movie about Ant-Man or about a talking racoon and a walking tree that only says "I'm Groot", they can sell a X-men movie with Cyclops as one of the leading characters of the ensemble.

[Heartofice]

Cyclops being the straight company man was always the point to him. That might sound boring on paper but yeah its generally about how other characters bounce off him. I always enjoyed the storylines where he was conflicted or there was a lot of tension between him and say Wolverine or Storm as to what to do. A bit like Cap America and Tony Stark. 

I also used to enjoy the storyline with him and Maddie Pryor and Jean, it showed him up to be less than perfect and I think his character has evolved a lot from that time. 

5 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

It's remarkable how much the X-Men movies over the last ten years or so has really soured me on them in general...hard to even read their comics...including the good stuff from the 70s and 80s...

I was an avid reader in the 80's / 90's, but then dropped out. I went back and read the Grant Morrison stuff recently and yeah it was.. 'fine' I guess, but nothing really close to the older Claremont stuff. The way the X-Men are portrayed these days doesn't feel very familiar to me and I always harken back to the period where I enjoyed it.
 

[Kalbear]

I'd recommend reading the Joss Whedon arc of Astonishing X-men if you want something that hearkens back to the glory days of Claremont without a lot of the baggage. And it even has a good Cyclops arc!