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The Last Fox X-men Thread - no spoilers


The Anti-Targ

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1 hour ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Folks don't talk about mutants in the mainstream because mutants are repeatedly discriminated against and there's public indecision about whether it's justified so mutants don't exactly make themselves public.

Yknow, like a metaphor for racism and later homophobia.

Really, it's a metaphor for racism, I had no idea, lol

You missed my point though, if that's what you're focusing on. The whole anti mutant thing is sort of a big deal in Marvel comics and for it to have not have been addressed in anyway, shape, or form up until now just seems silly.

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12 minutes ago, sifth said:

Really, it's a metaphor for racism, I had no idea, lol

You missed my point though, if that's what you're focusing on. The whole anti mutant thing is sort of a big deal in Marvel comics and for it to have not have been addressed in anyway, shape, or form up until now just seems silly.

Eh, actually it's not really addressed much outside the X-Men comics or crossovers.

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35 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Eh, actually it's not really addressed much outside the X-Men comics or crossovers.

Mutants are all over the place in Marvel comics though. I only read a handful and the world just doesn't magically pretend they don't exist.............which is what I assume the MCU is going to do.

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8 hours ago, Jeor said:

Yes, I think one of the issues is the timeline here. What were the X-Men doing all this time during the Avengers era? Hence the Magneto holocaust era discussion too. I can't really see a way to solve it unless you delay X-Men formation until present day and somehow retcon Magneto's past (which will be controversial). Or keep Magneto's holocaust origins, but have him somehow lose his powers for however many years and he's only just regained them.

Training/not existing is probably the reason they haven't been involved? Probably shouldn't send 12 year olds who don't know how to use their powers. Maybe Infinity going down was when Xavier realises it's not enough to protect young mutants but that he needs to create an army/avengers like team. That 5 year jump then comes in pretty handy as you can have graduated X-men. Or they just say a 25 year old cyclops didn't have his powers until after the Iron Man snap - as did all the other mutants. Be kind of interesting to see people from various points in their lives deal with suddenly having powers. Then the school isn't just full of kids - not sure why people seem to think teenagers are the only people capable of having character arcs/grow (unless they want to see characters physically grow). I still think the school should definitely be an aspect though and younger characters as part of it but the "fighting team" should primarily consist of older characters.

Like I said earlier at this point if they keep the holocaust origin of Magneto they have to explain why he isn't 85+ years old (don't forget MCU is in 2025 now - so they are probably going to be in 2030 by time X-men appear unless they cast someone who appears that old. He either has a magic doesn't age as quick mutation or he's been frozen/travelled through time.

8 hours ago, sifth said:

Am I the only one who wishes/hopes they keep the X Men separate from everything else in the MCU? It's just too late in the game for mutants to just randomly start showing up out of nowhere. I mean for the whole mutant issue to just randomly happen in stage 4 or 5, yet pretty much be non existent in the series prior would just come off as stupid, IMO.

I think they can support their own "world" but there's too many easy opportunities having them all together. Plus, even in the comics they had to "appear" at some point.

 

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1 hour ago, red snow said:

Like I said earlier at this point if they keep the holocaust origin of Magneto they have to explain why he isn't 85+ years old (don't forget MCU is in 2025 now - so they are probably going to be in 2030 by time X-men appear unless they cast someone who appears that old. He either has a magic doesn't age as quick mutation or he's been frozen/travelled through time.

It would be stretching it but there was a case at some point in the comics where they said Magneto doesn't age as much because he can control the levels of iron and other things in his blood. That being said there was an arc somewhere that posited Magneto was in fact one of the most powerful mutants in existence because assuming he had control over magnetism meant he should actually have control over the whole electromagnetic spectrum, which is tied to pretty much everything that exists.

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20 minutes ago, Jeor said:

It would be stretching it but there was a case at some point in the comics where they said Magneto doesn't age as much because he can control the levels of iron and other things in his blood. That being said there was an arc somewhere that posited Magneto was in fact one of the most powerful mutants in existence because assuming he had control over magnetism meant he should actually have control over the whole electromagnetic spectrum, which is tied to pretty much everything that exists.

I don't really understand electromagnetism, but I don't think being able to control magnetic fields is the same as being able to manipulate the electromagnetic spectrum. Somehow light propagates in/as an electric and a magnetic field, yet light is neither electric not magnetic.

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28 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I don't really understand electromagnetism, but I don't think being able to control magnetic fields is the same as being able to manipulate the electromagnetic spectrum. Somehow light propagates in/as an electric and a magnetic field, yet light is neither electric not magnetic.

Unfortunately they have claimed that magneto can control the electromagnetic spectrum by writers who clearly didn't have a clue what they were talking about. I don't think they've ever had him do anything that actually makes use of this claim and thankfully they retcon a lot.

Thankfully none of the Green lantern writers have worked on Magneto or he'd be able to control emotions like "willpower"...

1 hour ago, Jeor said:

It would be stretching it but there was a case at some point in the comics where they said Magneto doesn't age as much because he can control the levels of iron and other things in his blood. That being said there was an arc somewhere that posited Magneto was in fact one of the most powerful mutants in existence because assuming he had control over magnetism meant he should actually have control over the whole electromagnetic spectrum, which is tied to pretty much everything that exists.

And that's the problem - in trying to come up with an excuse for why he isn't 90 they make him so incredibly powerful that the question becomes "how haven't you won any argument through force". But magnetic time-bubble or someone "freezing" him seems to be the only option. Then again the comics have always made the mistake of assuming all metals are magnetic so his powers have always been very open to interpretation. 

 

 

Until very recently I was ok with them maybe dropping the holocaust aspect but watching "Blackkklansman" reminded me that the danger is in idiots perceiving not using the holocaust as Magneto's origin as being holocaust denial. I mean the racists using it as evidence not the people who will accuse the film-makers of being anti-semitic. So however they tackle it, if Magneto is used they have to keep his holocaust background. Probably until such a time where hopefully people don't exist who think it was made up.

 

Apparently Kinberg has admitted it's largely his fault the film sucks but is trying to take it as a steep learning curve that the most fun films to make aren't always the best product. I'm not sure who'll be leaping to give him another chance but maybe losing 50+ million dollars can teach you a lot.

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1 hour ago, Jeor said:

That being said there was an arc somewhere that posited Magneto was in fact one of the most powerful mutants in existence because assuming he had control over magnetism meant he should actually have control over the whole electromagnetic spectrum, which is tied to pretty much everything that exists.

The island in LOST was his first Genosha, but it went awry.

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12 hours ago, sifth said:

We're what now, 20+ films into this series and we're just to assume mutants have been a big deal on Earth this whole time and no one's talked about them once.............because reasons?

To be honest that just comes off as half assed to me.

Unless i am misreading that post you quoted, the point would be that the mutations are “new” so they havent been around and a big deal for 20+ films

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5 hours ago, red snow said:

Training/not existing is probably the reason they haven't been involved? Probably shouldn't send 12 year olds who don't know how to use their powers. Maybe Infinity going down was when Xavier realises it's not enough to protect young mutants but that he needs to create an army/avengers like team. That 5 year jump then comes in pretty handy as you can have graduated X-men. Or they just say a 25 year old cyclops didn't have his powers until after the Iron Man snap - as did all the other mutants. Be kind of interesting to see people from various points in their lives deal with suddenly having powers. Then the school isn't just full of kids - not sure why people seem to think teenagers are the only people capable of having character arcs/grow (unless they want to see characters physically grow). I still think the school should definitely be an aspect though and younger characters as part of it but the "fighting team" should primarily consist of older characters.

 

 

A Cyclops that gets his powers at 25 years old is an entirely different person, particularly since part of his character arc is he gets an excess of duties (both lead the team and his uncontrollable powers) at too early an age. Not to mention that at point he probably should have a family or at least his share of girlfriends/exes, so Jean is really just another girl he dates, which changes the dynamics entirely. Likewise, Nightcrawler would be a very different person if he wasn't a mutant from birth, just to mention another example.

Again, I see absolutely no downside of having the X-men start as teenagers and allow them to grow as people and as heroes as they grow with age, particularly since the appearance of powers has been associated with puberty before.

Not to mention, start with the X-men as teachers is just as a repetition of what Singer did.

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2 hours ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

 

A Cyclops that gets his powers at 25 years old is an entirely different person, particularly since part of his character arc is he gets an excess of duties (both lead the team and his uncontrollable powers) at too early an age. Not to mention that at point he probably should have a family or at least his share of girlfriends/exes, so Jean is really just another girl he dates, which changes the dynamics entirely. Likewise, Nightcrawler would be a very different person if he wasn't a mutant from birth, just to mention another example.

Again, I see absolutely no downside of having the X-men start as teenagers and allow them to grow as people and as heroes as they grow with age, particularly since the appearance of powers has been associated with puberty before.

Not to mention, start with the X-men as teachers is just as a repetition of what Singer did.

Let's see what they do - maybe they'll choose to use the X-men as their first franchise featuring teenage characters when everything else they have done has centred around adults. Maybe the X-men are he ideal franchise to risk it with (in the unlikely event it doesn't work the X-men will be fairly insulated from everything else).

Like you say there's money to be made from being able to potentially follow the same cast for 20 years. 

Maybe they'll just have to ditch characters like Nightcrawler if it's integral to the character he has always been the way he is? Otherwise he's going to be a character that's only a few years old when he appears in a film barring them doing something odd like setting the X-men films in the future. Or having mutants exist the entire time but then we're back to being able to have any of the X-men as adults too.

It's going to be really interesting to see how they are incorporated and it lends credence to us not seeing an X-men film for quite some time.

I wonder if the MCU will final disregard the inhumans when the X-men debut?

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4 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Unless i am misreading that post you quoted, the point would be that the mutations are “new” so they havent been around and a big deal for 20+ films

That's fine for all of the younger characters, but not the older ones who would be around the same age of the Avengers characters and choose to do nothing during all of the many event that destroyed the world in the 20+ films we've seen.

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Actually you could have a fun little dynamic of Spider Man's every day heroism (as opposed to being AN AVENGER!!!) inspired them to do something with their powers. You could have a scene where a couple of them say to the younger students "when I saw SpiderMan out there. Just a guy, not some Avenger with a trillion dollar suit... I realized I could be something more."

Y'know, like a metaphor for old people realizing gayness isn't a crime and black people don't pee through their skin?

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2 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Actually you could have a fun little dynamic of Spider Man's every day heroism (as opposed to being AN AVENGER!!!) inspired them to do something with their powers. You could have a scene where a couple of them say to the younger students "when I saw SpiderMan out there. Just a guy, not some Avenger with a trillion dollar suit... I realized I could be something more."

Y'know, like a metaphor for old people realizing gayness isn't a crime and black people don't pee through their skin?

That doesn't work when the original lineup of the Avengers includes one woman with a gun and one guy with a bow and arrow.

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15 hours ago, red snow said:

 

Like I said earlier at this point if they keep the holocaust origin of Magneto they have to explain why he isn't 85+ years old (don't forget MCU is in 2025 now - so they are probably going to be in 2030 by time X-men appear unless they cast someone who appears that old.

It's kinda cute people think that the time jump is sticking around.  It's going to be forgotten before the credits role on Spider-Man, let alone any next phase movies.  It was their one great flaw in Endgame, that the five year gap stayed...

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Depends on what you mean.  Will they appreciably reference it like there are former freshmen from Peters school whonare now college sophomores?  Doubt it.

They long ago got away from saying that the MCU is the same year as we are in real life. So it won’t be 2024 in the movie.

But do I think you’ll hear someone like Peter ruminate along the lines of “We’ve been gone five years...”? Yeah.

The big question is, did Aunt Mae get snapped?  If she didn’t, then I fully expect some hysterical rantings from her about not losing Peter again.

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28 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Depends on what you mean.  Will they appreciably reference it like there are former freshmen from Peters school whonare now college sophomores?  Doubt it.

They long ago got away from saying that the MCU is the same year as we are in real life. So it won’t be 2024 in the movie.

But do I think you’ll hear someone like Peter ruminate along the lines of “We’ve been gone five years...”? Yeah.

The big question is, did Aunt Mae get snapped?  If she didn’t, then I fully expect some hysterical rantings from her about not losing Peter again.

Eh actually, yes I believe there is a scene in Spider Man where they DO reference that.

Also Aunt May got snapped, that was confirmed a while ago.

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6 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

It's kinda cute people think that the time jump is sticking around.  It's going to be forgotten before the credits role on Spider-Man, let alone any next phase movies.  It was their one great flaw in Endgame, that the five year gap stayed...

I agree it will probably be forgotten about in the sense they will not waste time delving into it too much and quickly operate as if it isn't a major thing but there is no way they will retcon it out if existence 3 months (our time) after introducing it. Surely they would have corrected that in Endgame if there wasn't some reason for keeping it. You don't shackle a franchise with something like that unless there's some kind of plan.

Whether the time jump makes it easier or harder to do mutants is the big question. 

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