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The Last Fox X-men Thread - no spoilers


The Anti-Targ

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8 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

There’s also Kit Harington, who was the leading man on the biggest show in the world for almost a decade. 

It would probably be harder for them to have Logan be hairy, and not particularly attractive, than it would for him to be short, imo. 

I think we can discount any pretty boys.

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3 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

To clarify, I wasn’t suggesting Harrington for Wolverine. Just pointing out another example of a short leading man. 

Oh well there have been plenty of short leading men in movies. Usually if I want to know what actors are short, I will look to see who Tom Cruise has in movies with him  thats normally a sign they aren't too much taller than him. 

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52 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

My preference would have been someone like Joaquin Phoenix or a Russell Crowe type, like Tom Hardy. These guys are all around 5'9 - 5'10, thickly built and look like they could lose their shit over the smallest thing. That is exactly the type of person who should be playing the guy. 

Being short isn't the only characteristic, but not being tall and lean and not looking heroic is pretty important, he needs to a dirty looking angry dude. 

I think we should immediately discount actors who are completely wrong for the role but who are short.. like Radcliffe, and especially Hart (really can't see any real reason to change Wolvies race at this point)

Is there a reason to preserve his race as white though? If people are flexible on attractiveness and height, then flexibility on race is no different. Is Hart completely wrong for Wolverine just because of his race or are there are more legit reasons for him being wrong? And Momoa actually getting the part would be a change in race, but I guess he's just pale enough to pass, so no one immediately screams "race bending!". TBH I see height as a much more important aspect to Wolverine's character than his race.

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43 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Is there a reason to preserve his race as white though? If people are flexible on attractiveness and height, then flexibility on race is no different. Is Hart completely wrong for Wolverine just because of his race or are there are more legit reasons for him being wrong? And Momoa actually getting the part would be a change in race, but I guess he's just pale enough to pass, so no one immediately screams "race bending!". TBH I see height as a much more important aspect to Wolverine's character than his race.

Well I think a bigger question is whether there is a need a to change his race. I’m pretty sure there are a lot of actors who fit his racial and stature profile. I don’t get what the reason would be to even change his race, what would be the point?

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3 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Well I think a bigger question is whether there is a need a to change his race. I’m pretty sure there are a lot of actors who fit his racial and stature profile. I don’t get what the reason would be to even change his race, what would be the point?

To introduce a larger pool of potential candidates to play him? If his race isnt important why specify he must be white? Dont have to specify “must be race Y” just have a totally open casting. Is there any reason why this shouldnt happen? Legitimate reasons i mean, not just “he was white in the comic!”

 

Regarding Momoa...how would that even work when he is Aquaman? 

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5 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I also thought, though I might be wrong that the whole Jean Grey, Wolverine, Cyclops love triangle thing was more Jean and Cyclops being an item, and Wolverine having a brooding unrequited love for Jean, because basically he ain't no hunk, so can't compete with Cyclops in the hawtness department, as well as not being able to compete personality-wise.

Sharp claws isn't a particularly unique feature of the weasely family among carnivora. But the mustelid family of carnivores is among the smallest (in body size and weight) of the carnivore families, so that is a characteristic of its type. Though still not unique. But still, when people (who don't know the X-men but do know their carnivores) hear "wolverine" they think small and mean.

I think you captured the love triangle dynamic really well. Logan is that older (actually much older) bad guy people can be tempted by but know it's a bad choice. Where the films tend to wrong is desperately taking Cyclops out of the equation.

I think wolverine (especially for a hero) just sounds cooler than pine marten, weasel, stoat and badger. No self respecting hero is going to call themselves honey badger irrespective of their badass reputation (although i know there's a teen character with that title).

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2 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

To introduce a larger pool of potential candidates to play him? If his race isnt important why specify he must be white? Dont have to specify “must be race Y” just have a totally open casting. Is there any reason why this shouldnt happen? Legitimate reasons i mean, not just “he was white in the comic!”

I mean, his race IS important, of course it is, just in the same way that all his other features are important. Usually actors are cast because they bear some passing resemblance to the character they are going to portray from a comic book. Sure we could just completely ignore what Wolverine looks like in the comics, but then you'd really need to find a good justification for doing that. If you cast a 7ft ginger guy to play Wolverine then you would really need to have a reason for doing it, because physically they look nothing like the original character. This is especially true for someone as iconic as Wolverine. They cast him as a tall good looking guy in the past and I didn't like it much either.

I would have thought all this stuff is basically totally obvious, and doesn't just apply to white characters. 

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4 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I mean, his race IS important, of course it is, just in the same way that all his other features are important. Usually actors are cast because they bear some passing resemblance to the character they are going to portray from a comic book. Sure we could just completely ignore what Wolverine looks like in the comics, but then you'd really need to find a good justification for doing that. If you cast a 7ft ginger guy to play Wolverine then you would really need to have a reason for doing it, because physically they look nothing like the original character. This is especially true for someone as iconic as Wolverine. They cast him as a tall good looking guy in the past and I didn't like it much either.

I would have thought all this stuff is basically totally obvious, and doesn't just apply to white characters. 

Your reply is completely unsurprising to me

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5 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Height of the character is a sticking point for me, but not necessarily the actor. But still, I don't care about ethnicity at all. Indeed I think a decent change up for a very long lived character who doesn't age could make for a good slavery narrative, which is a pretty good reason to be mad at the world for a very long time. Wolverine could have been born a slave in the pre-abolition American South. And after seeing The Upside, I think Kevin Hart could pull it off, as well as being able to deliver great comedic moments. Dunno if he's washed off the homophobic stink though, and he's getting on in years, so he may not have convincing longevity as a slow to age character.

To be clear i didn't mean to sound like people fixated on his height would also be fixated on ethnicity. More a "i imagine there are 10 people who'd be upset about his ethnicity for every one person upset about height". And they'd probably invoke comic canon while being totally fine with Hugh Jackman for 15 years.

 

5 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

But ALWAYS his height is fudged in his movies. Has he ever played a character people are supposed to see as hobbit sized? Usually the impression is that he's above average in height

I think this is an important distinction.

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4 hours ago, Nictarion said:

To clarify, I wasn’t suggesting Harrington for Wolverine. Just pointing out another example of a short leading man. 

And they name checked his stature several times in the latter seasons so he wasn't portraying a tall person. I think if Harrington were to age 10-15 years and round out in a crowe/phoenix way he'd actually look the part - they could probably work his hair effectively too. But he's still too puppy looking at the moment. His rehab/retreat is probably intervening with accidental method acting for playing wolverine if the tabloid rumours for drinking and getting into bar fights are to be beleived.

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5 minutes ago, red snow said:

To be clear i didn't mean to sound like people fixated on his height would also be fixated on ethnicity. More a "i imagine there are 10 people who'd be upset about his ethnicity for every one person upset about height". And they'd probably invoke comic canon while being totally fine with Hugh Jackman for 15 years.

I mean, there was a lot of outrage about Jackman when he was cast because he doesn't look a lot like comic book wolverine.

It would be very surprising if they decided to cast someone who looks NOTHING like his comic book counterpart and there wasn't a ton of outrage. 

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12 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I mean, his race IS important, of course it is, just in the same way that all his other features are important. Usually actors are cast because they bear some passing resemblance to the character they are going to portray from a comic book. Sure we could just completely ignore what Wolverine looks like in the comics, but then you'd really need to find a good justification for doing that. If you cast a 7ft ginger guy to play Wolverine then you would really need to have a reason for doing it, because physically they look nothing like the original character. This is especially true for someone as iconic as Wolverine. They cast him as a tall good looking guy in the past and I didn't like it much either.

I would have thought all this stuff is basically totally obvious, and doesn't just apply to white characters. 

I think you have just accidentally come up with the genuis idea of tormund playing sabertooth!

Logan is Canadian so i suspect there's a decent number of ethnicities he could play. Maybe, just maybe his 200 year old age could be a limitation in the sense he was a noble/upper class in Canada. Then again I don't know the genuine history of canada - it could be the tendency of entertainment always casting white folk in 200 year ago north America roles biasing me. You would think chinese people didn't exist in the united states until very recently if you based thst assumption on tv and film (shows like deadwood and warrior are counter arguments)

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4 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I mean, there was a lot of outrage about Jackman when he was cast because he doesn't look a lot like comic book wolverine.

It would be very surprising if they decided to cast someone who looks NOTHING like his comic book counterpart and there wasn't a ton of outrage. 

It wouldn't be surprising if they were able to magically/genetically reproduce the character into real life and there was still outrage. Because people like to get annoyed and start petitions. Especially online. 

I think some people won't be happy until films are generated in your mind via VR and cast your own personalised version of the character. And they'd still try and be outraged. Probably by other people not seeing their version of the character (which is obviously the best).

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8 minutes ago, red snow said:

I think you have just accidentally come up with the genuis idea of tormund playing sabertooth!

Logan is Canadian so i suspect there's a decent number of ethnicities he could play. Maybe, just maybe his 200 year old age could be a limitation in the sense he was a noble/upper class in Canada. Then again I don't know the genuine history of canada - it could be the tendency of entertainment always casting white folk in 200 year ago north America roles biasing me. You would think chinese people didn't exist in the united states until very recently if you based thst assumption on tv and film (shows like deadwood and warrior are counter arguments)

Actually Tormund as Sabertooth is brilliant! 

But I think you are missing the point, Wolverine already looks a certain way, and in the majority of cases it makes a lot of sense to try and at least cast actors who physically resemble the characters they are playing. Robert Downey Junior looks like Tony Stark for instance.

It doesn't mean you can't change the race of a character if there is someone who is totally perfect for the role, I mean it worked ok for Kingpin (although Daredevils version was a ton better). But my point is, if you are going to make such a radical change, you will need to do it for a good reason, and I'm not seeing many. 

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After all the fuss about having white actors playing non white roles, it isn't worth the grief that would be generated to change his race, there are a lot of crazy, noisy people out there. 

I didn't realise how relatively poorly most X-men films did at the box office, with only DOFP taking really big money, that surprises me. 

 

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