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Ghost7272

Was Margaery actually the best at ruling?

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In the show, was Margaery actually the best ruler, out of all those who either sat on the throne or aspired to, or wanted to be the true power behind the throne or actually was?

 

She's politically smart, helping the people (even if a lot of it was for good PR), and just the fact that she had (and knew her to make) good PR. Her one mistake was trusting that the High Sparrow would take care of Cersei for her. Her only drawback is that she probably wouldn't have been a transformation leader who "broke the wheel" and reinvented the system, whether it was centralizing power or taking a step towards democracy. Though who knows. But simply as a ruler, I think she was probably the best.

 

Tywin? He was the true power behind the throne, on multiple occasions, we saw how that was. While cunning, he never got the love of the people, nor did he love them.

Littlefinger? All we know is that he wanted power and was willing to burn the country down to get it, more likely to break a promise at the first opportunity, didn't care about the people at all.

Cersei? lol

Joffrey? lol

Robert? lol

The Boltons? lol

Any Greyjoy? lol

Tommen? As we saw, too spineless, unless Margaery was there to be the true power.

Renly? Kind and beloved, good PR, had average or above-average political smarts, though fickle and untested militarily. He's in the middle. Also, was married to Margaery.

Stannis? In the context of the whole show, definitely not. Also didn't know how to be political. Or know how to do, or the importance of, good PR. Didn't seem to care for the people either.

Daenerys? In the context of the whole show, definitely not.

Jon? Not politically smart.

Robb? Same as Jon

Ned? Same as Jon.

Sansa? Politically smart, but doesn't know how to play the PR game with the people, just the lords, though she was too frigid with Daenerys which wasn't smart. She improved a lot, but isn't on Margaery's level.

Tyrion? Politically smart, though he's made plenty of mistakes. He does care about the people, and know how to play the game with lords and (as seen in Meereen) the "small folk" too.

Varys? He's a schemer and an advisor, not a ruler.

Davos? An advisor not a ruler.

High Sparrow? Very good at PR with the people, good at manipulating the lords too, but it was only a matter of time before the noble houses checked his overreach to some degree and he would have been useless if they used all their tools (even excluding wildfire) against him.

Doran? Doesn't know his own people that well, too lenient.

Mance? Great for north of the wall in every way you can think of, just unacceptable south of the wall.

I don't think I'm forgetting anyone on this list.

 

 

I'd rank them

1. Margaery

* Mance (just for people north of the wall, though)

...

2. Tyrion

3. High Sparrow

4. Renly

5. Sansa

...

everyone else, for different reasons and to different degrees.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Ghost7272 said:

In the show, was Margaery actually the best ruler, out of all those who either sat on the throne or aspired to, or wanted to be the true power behind the throne or actually was?

I agree that Margaery was quite suited to be queen, but probably satisfied to be queen consort and pull the threads from the background.

Margaery was highly charismatic, very smart in manipulating people by kind and flirtative interaction, she was diplomatically excellent and surely knew how to play the common people and lords alike.

Tywin was charismatic in his own kind, very smart and earnest, very dominant and commanding, very good at ruling. I believe he would have been the best ruler with a reasonable balance between awareness of power and smartness on how to employ it. He was the typical ruler figure in this show. Very hard on him that he was never really in power and he suffered by it and worked for House Lannister, not for his King or the realm. He did not really care for the people but he was aware of not alienating it too much anyway. Exactly this mixture makes for quite a powerful king in medieval times.

Margaery as queen consort to King Tywin -- that combination would have been maximum power. She bewitching the common people and he making the tough decisions.

Edited by Kajjo

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On 6/6/2019 at 6:04 AM, Kajjo said:

I agree that Margaery was quite suited to be queen, but probably satisfied to be queen consort and pull the threads from the background.

Margaery was highly charismatic, very smart in manipulating people by kind and flirtative interaction, she was diplomatically excellent and surely knew how to play the common people and lords alike.

Tywin was charismatic in his own kind, very smart and earnest, very dominant and commanding, very good at ruling. I believe he would have been the best ruler with a reasonable balance between awareness of power and smartness on how to employ it. He was the typical ruler figure in this show. Very hard on him that he was never really in power and he suffered by it and worked for House Lannister, not for his King or the realm. He did not really care for the people but he was aware of not alienating it too much anyway. Exactly this mixture makes for quite a powerful king in medieval times.

Margaery as queen consort to King Tywin -- that combination would have been maximum power. She bewitching the common people and he making the tough decisions.

So, pretty close to what we had before the Lannisters messed it all up with Tyrion's trial and Cersei going crazy.

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8 hours ago, Ghost7272 said:

So, pretty close to what we had before the Lannisters messed it all up with Tyrion's trial and Cersei going crazy.

Well, we never were close to Tywin/Margaery. And Tommen would have been a very weak king, without backbone and balls.

 

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5 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Well, we never were close to Tywin/Margaery. And Tommen would have been a very weak king, without backbone and balls.

 

What I'm saying is that Tywin basically was King while Tommen was on the throne, and Margaery was Queen.

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3 hours ago, Ghost7272 said:

What I'm saying is that Tywin basically was King while Tommen was on the throne, and Margaery was Queen.

Marg also had the backing of her family, the head of the most powerful kingdom (or perhaps on the show just a pile of roses). Add in her personal skills and ambition and I think she would have made the best Queen in most scenarios. 1) Renly (best scenario for the kingdoms minus the Iron Islands and Westerlands). 2) Tommen (most likely to suceed) under Tywin's handship. 3) Robb (a fanfic which we would have loved). 4). Robert?

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On 6/8/2019 at 8:09 PM, Ghost7272 said:

What I'm saying is that Tywin basically was King while Tommen was on the throne, and Margaery was Queen.

OK, I see your point -- but Margaery and Tywin did not work together, but against each other, more or less. 

On 6/8/2019 at 11:24 PM, nyser1 said:

I think she would have made the best Queen in most scenarios

I agree.

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15 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

OK, I see your point -- but Margaery and Tywin did not work together, but against each other, more or less. 

I agree.

They are working in rival factions, they never would. However, they both would influence who he would become in their own ways.

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5 hours ago, Kajjo said:

OK, I see your point -- but Margaery and Tywin did not work together, but against each other, more or less. 

I agree.

While they each strove to make sure their family came out on-top, it was a friendly rivalry between them, they weren't really at odds. Tywin tried to explain to Cersei several times why it was important to keep the Tyrell's close, and he respected them as partners (though the junior partner).

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9 hours ago, Ghost7272 said:

why it was important to keep the Tyrell's close, and he respected them as partners

That's right. Maybe he should have grasped the throne and proposes to Margaery. What a strong king/queen they would have been.

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Of all the kings and queens of Westeros we saw in the show she was definitely the best imo.

I felt for Margaery because she played the game well and only lost because that cult leader had his followers block the door. Unlike others who met their downfalls by letting their guards down or losing a big gamble Margaery clocked quickly that something was wrong with Cersei's absence.

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