Jump to content

Ask D&D


Recommended Posts

15 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Three Dragons would make short work of the Red Keep, however many scorpions there were.   Even if Cersei escapes, she's just going to be a powerless fugitive. And, far more innocent people would die in a siege than in burning the Red Keep.

Alternatively, march on Kings Landing, and give Cersei's soldiers 24 hours to hand over her head on a spike, or else the burning starts.

Proposing that the King in the North risks his life trying to catch a wight is not good advice.

I'm happy to change my initial question to "bad advice" rather than "bad military advice."

Losing the city would make her a powerless fugitive not losing the Red Keep, she still has Iron Fleet, Lannister army and Golden Company. The siege is necessary in any case. They still need to deal with her army. And if Daenerys flies over the city to burn the armies than innocent people would die. It's not the same with a regular siege, their soldiers would kill far less people than a dragonfire would on a city, it's not comparable at all. Tywin sacked the King's Landing when Aerys was on the throne, and as Tyrion said, Tywin still didn't kill half of the people that Daenerys killed in a single day.

Again, you were not following at all, Tyrion never said KitN should go beyond the wall, Jon himself said he will, then Davos disagreed and told him not to, but Jon didn't listen, because he was right from his own point of view (he is the only one who fought with them and the Free Folk wouldn't follow anyone but Jon). Tyrion said nothing about sending Jon beyond the wall. 

Edited by RYShh
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, RYShh said:

Losing the city would make her a powerless fugitive not losing the Red Keep, she still has Iron Fleet, Lannister army and Golden Company. The siege is necessary in any case. They still need to deal with her army. And if she flies over the city to burn the armies than innocent people would die. It's not the same with a regular siege, soldiers would kill far less people than a dragonfire would on a city, it's not comparable at all. Tywin sacked the King's Landing when Aerys was on the throne, and as Tyrion, they still didn't kill half of the people that Daenerys killed in a single day.

Again, you were not following at all, Tyrion never said KitN should go beyond the wall, Jon himself said he will, then Davos disagreed and told him not to, but Jon didn't listen, because he was right from his point of view (he is the only one who fought with them and the Free Folk wouldn't follow anyone but Jon). Tyrion said nothing about sending Jon beyond the wall. 

Who would fight on after the Red Keep had been flattened?  It would be like the Japanese deciding to fight on after the second atom bomb had been dropped?

I can't think of any military commander (or advisor) who would turn down the chance to destroy their opponent's main centre of power within minutes.

Edited by SeanF
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Who would fight on after the Red Keep had been flattened?  It would be like the Japanese deciding to fight on after the second atom bomb had been dropped?

Everyone would keep fighting. You are mistaken the Red Keep with the whole city. There is a large City which is King's Landing, and there is a castle in the city which is Red Keep. If Unsullied didn't enter the gates of Red Keep then Cersei could easily escape from the Red Keep. They needed to siege the city, or they needed to destroy the whole city, and they did the latter in the final which is why thousands of children burned.

Edited by RYShh
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, RYShh said:

Everyone would keep fighting. You are mistaken the Red Keep with the whole city. There is a large City which is King's Landing, and there is a castle in the city which is Red Keep. If Unsullied didn't enter the gates of Red Keep then Cersei could easily escape from the Red Keep. They needed to siege the city, or they needed to destroy the whole city, and they did the latter in the final which is why thousands of children burned.

We'll just have to disagree.  I see no reason at all why people would keep fighting in a lost cause for an unpopular Queen, after the Red Keep had been flattened. 

And, Medieval sieges could be frightful.  Once food began to run out, the women and children and old men would be expelled from the city to starve in no mans' land.   Given that refugees had been flooding into Kings Landing, that point would have arrived very swiftly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

What's the rate for a medieval battle consultant in Hollywood these days? I'm surprised it's beyond your means.

I'm sure it would have been quite straightforward to hire Bernard Cornwell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, SeanF said:

We'll just have to disagree.  I see no reason at all why people would keep fighting in a lost cause for an unpopular Queen, after the Red Keep had been flattened. 

And, Medieval sieges could be frightful.  Once food began to run out, the women and children and old men would be expelled from the city to starve in no mans' land.   Given that refugees had been flooding into Kings Landing, that point would have arrived very swiftly.

The problem is where the Red Keep is, that's what I told you, the castle is in the city, Daenerys could do that to any castle; like Riverrun, Winterfell, Highgarden, Eyrie, Casterly Rock or Storm's End, she could melt the castles and then it's over. But once Red Keep starts to get burn Cersei could escape from the castle and hide inside anywhere in the city, she could be anywhere, and Daenerys couldn't destroy Cersei and her army without destroying the whole city where thousands of innocent children lives. That was the trick, which is why the siege on King's Landing was necessary, interrupting their transportation lines and not allowing any resources to enter the city, in time people would turn against Cersei and they would rebel as they did to Joffrey once even when there was no siege. I see no military mistake on this plan. That's what should have been.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, RYShh said:

The problem is where the Red Keep is, that's what I told you, the castle is in the city, Daenerys could do that to any castle; like Riverrun, Winterfell, Highgarden, Eyrie, Casterly Rock or Storm's End, she could melt the castles and then it's over. But once Red Keep starts to get burn Cersei could escape from the castle and hide inside anywhere in the city, she could be anywhere, and Daenerys couldn't destroy Cersei and her army without destroying the whole city where thousands of innocent children lives. That was the trick, which is why the siege on King's Landing was necessary, interrupting their transportation lines and not allowing any resources to enter the city, in time people would turn against Cersei and they would rebel as they did to Joffrey once even when there was no siege. I see no military mistake on this plan. That's what should have been.

At this point, the Red Keep is a heap of smoking slag.  Cersei's soldiers therefore can see at first hand what will happen if resistance continues. Are they really going to keep fighting for her at that point?

Much more likely they'll decide that surrender is a very good idea indeed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, SeanF said:

At this point, the Red Keep is a heap of smoking slag.  Cersei's soldiers therefore can see at first hand what will happen if resistance continues. Are they really going to keep fighting for her at that point?

Much more likely they'll decide that surrender is a very good idea indeed.

Of course they will, are you serious? They kept fighting even after the city gates have been breached, they only give up after seeing the whole forces of the Northmen and the Unsullied inside the city, of course they would keep fighting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, RYShh said:

Of course they will, are you serious? They kept fighting even after the city gates have been breached, they only give up after seeing the whole forces of the Northmen and the Unsullied inside the city, of course they would keep fighting.

Yes, I am serious.  People will fight to the death for a cause they believe passionately in, or a leader they love.  Cersei doesn't qualify on either count. Once, they've seen what dragonfire can do, of course they'll want to save their own lives.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, RYShh said:

They kept fighting even after the city gates have been breached, they only give up after seeing the whole forces of the Northmen and the Unsullied inside the city, of course they would keep fighting.

They were fighting what exactly, before the gates have been breached?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Yes, I am serious.  People will fight to the death for a cause they believe passionately in, or a leader they love.  Cersei doesn't qualify on either count. Once, they've seen what dragonfire can do, of course they'll want to save their own lives.

But somehow she is, they choose to follow her, Tywin Lannister's daughter. Your opinion will not change this obvious fact, They knew what happenned in the Battle of the Goldroad and they still choose to fight for Cersei. This is not up to debate, they won't give up just because she flies over the Red Keep and burns it down, they need to attack the whole city and took it as they did in the final.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, RYShh said:

But somehow she is, they choose to follow her, Tywin Lannister's daughter. Your opinion will not change this obvious fact, They knew what happenned in the Battle of the Goldroad and they still choose to fight for Cersei. This is not up to debate, they won't give up just because she flies over the Red Keep and burns it down, they need to attack the whole city and took it as they did in the final.

Yes, it is up to debate.  The survivors at the Goldroad gave up.  They didn't fight on pointlessly.  Given the choice between switching sides and getting to live, and defying her, and being roasted, all but the two Tarlys switched sides. 

And, the fact that the Lannister soldiers did begin throwing down their weapons in Episode 5 to the Unsullied and Northmen, shows that they can see when their cause is doomed. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Yes, it is up to debate.  The survivors at the Goldroad gave up.  They didn't fight on pointlessly.  Given the choice between switching sides and getting to live, and defying her, and being roasted, all but the two Tarlys switched sides. 

And, the fact that the Lannister soldiers did begin throwing down their weapons in Episode 5 to the Unsullied and Northmen, shows that they can see when their cause is doomed. 

How is that the same thing with flying over the Red Keep burning it down the castle only? :blink: She needs to attack the whole city and bring her army inside city to do that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, RYShh said:

How is that the same thing with flying over the Red Keep burning it down the castle only? :blink: She needs to attack the whole city and bring her army inside city to do that.

I don't know what more I can say.

When, your opponents have demonstrated they can incinerate you at will, it's vanishingly unlikely that you will keep on fighting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, SeanF said:

I don't know what more I can say.

When, your opponents have demonstrated they can incinerate you at will, it's vanishingly unlikely that you will keep on fighting.

Again, you weren't following, she already demonstrated that in the Battle of Goldroad, even Bronn's whores knew what happened to the Lannisters army, yet the Lannisters still kept fighting in the King's Landing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RYShh said:

Again, you weren't following, she already demonstrated that in the Battle of Goldroad, even Bronn's whores knew what happened to the Lannisters army, yet the Lannisters still kept fighting in the King's Landing.

Perhaps the Lannister soldiers are all religious fanatics who are glad to be roasted alive for Cersei, but I have my doubts.  And, if they are, that's seems like yet another example of implausible writing. 

There's a difference between hearing something at second hand, and actually seeing it right in your face. That's why the surviving Lannisters at the Goldroad surrendered.

And, yes, I have followed the series.

Edited by SeanF
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Perhaps the Lannister soldiers are all religious fanatics who are glad to be roasted alive for Cersei, but I have my doubts. 

Especially after Arya's encounter with a small detachment of Lannister troopers where we see good guys who would rather be at home…

(you know, when we learn the concept of "New song" in a medieval universe…:rolleyes:)

Edited by Nowy Tends
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...