POVs you wished for and that you were weary of?

[LadyOfCastamere]

Hey there

I'm halfway through ADWD and I was surprised at the number of new POVs and the lack of POVs of people that already died. I'm aware this is nitpicking on a VERY high level, but what about you? If you were Martin's counselor, which POVs would you have included, which ones excluded?

Include:
- A POV of Joffrey: I wouldve liked to have a single POV-Chapter of him to have him humanized and understand his relationships better. I know he was a villain in a way and pretty annoying with his habits, but 1. he was old enough to be capable of reflecting on himself and his relationship and 2. he seemed very one-dimensional to me. Reading in his thoughts and feelings towards his mother, Tywin, the Hound, etc would've given us great insight and make his death more impactful.

-A POV of Kevan: I dont know if perhaps there will be a chapter of this coming in the rest of ADWD (I'm totally fine with spoilers!), but I would've liked one while Tywin was alive. Similar to Joff, Tywin was sort of villanized and lacked facettes. Kevan would've been awesome to give us glimpses and insight to who Tywin really was and how he meant to get Jaime to become heir to Casterly Rock.

-A POV of Loras: If it wasn't for the TV-series GOT I would've not picked up on his and Renly's relationship at all. It could've focussed on that but also give us an idea about the Tyrells. It is odd that we have so many POVs of different houses and supporters, yet NONE of the Tyrells.

Exclude: 

POVS of Victarion/Aeron: I'm aware that he plays his own role, but I personally didn't enjoy all the Greyjoy POVs, they were just too many. In my eyes GRRM could've mixed Victarion's and Asha's storyline and make her do the voyage with the Iron Fleet. As for Aeron, I don't really get why he got a POV, he seems so useless, just another religious fanatic. If he was supportive of Euron and gave us more of an idea about him I would've appreciated it, but like this? Nah. Then again, perhaps I'm missing something?

[TheThreeEyedCow]

Hi! 

- A POV of Joffrey: I understand what you mean. But. He's not all that much of an enigma. He really is a spoilt little brat. At best, he's a narcissist and a border line psychopath. His head would be full of ranting about he's the king and everyone should listen to him.  The trick is to consider the relationship he had with his "father" and mother. Robert had little to no interaction with the kid. The one time we hear of Robert doing something with Joffery, it was smashing him in the face for performing an autopsy on a pregnant cat, and displaying the unborn kitten proudly. I can't remember the quote, but Joffery didn't seem to understand what he'd done. And Cersei's response was to forbid Robert from going near the boy again. So naturally, he didn't. Leaving the boy without a father figure and no discipline.  Just his doting mother who saw him as her perfect golden prince. There really isn't much more to the lad imo. 


-A POV of Kevan: 


-A POV of Loras: Getting into the heads of any of the Tyrells may lead to George revealing things before the time is ripe. But I agree, having his inner thoughts on things would be interesting.


The Greyjoys do seem to be very prevalent. I think even GRRM may have been surprised at how they became more central. They (Asha, Aeron Vic and Theon) are, for me, four of the most fascinating characters in the series. And their placement by the time the sample chapters for TWOW came out gives the reader a wide view of the story. I imagine their ships give them the best mileage on Planetos. If anyone can go from one side of the world to the other in a single book, it'd be them. Aeron is the perfect vessel for the reader to discover their strange faith. I think that in time, you (along with a lot of other readers inc myself) will find Auron's perspective more pertinent to the overall story. Vic gives us eyes on one of the most twisted and malevolent of antagonists in Euron. As does Vic. Who makes his way Dany. And Asha can give us a great POV up in the north. Plus, she's awesome. 

My advice is to finish the book. There's a lot of digging to be done in this series. It all becomes more apparent after subsequent re-reads and discussion.

The POV I would want is Sandor 'The Hound' Clegane. I'd love to be in his head for a bit. One of the wildlings too. We did get a Varymyr chapter (which gives us a big info dump on warging). But I'd like to see from Manse's or maybe Tormund's pov.

  

[Arthur Peres]

Include:

Blackfish: I do find interesting that the 5 Kings have no POV, this keep us from see their future moves, that said, I do think it was awkward how Robb simply vanish during ACoK. A Blackfish POV would give us more information about the lore with the war of the ninepenny kings, would show us Westerlands as a region, how the commanders saw Robb leadership, what did they know was happening and maybe give us a little about Robb and Jeyne relationship.

Loras: Just like Robb I think that we don't need a Renly POV, but Loras would show us some light in his character. The only character that really knows Renly and we have as a POV is maester Cressen and he still think of Renly as a kid. Loras could also give us the Tyrell side that are a major players but have no POV on their own and their family dynamic. Loras also do not seem to be much of a plotter and would not ruin anything

 

Exclude: 

Asha: We have soo much Greyjoys as POV. Theon Victarion Aeron...Victarion and Aeron are present to build Euron as a character, Victarion would be enough if he was close to Euron, but since he is not we need Aeron to show us the action and not just rummors. Asha on the other hand is not really necessary as a POV, the most important moments of her story so far are saw through the eyes of other characters. The return of Theon, Balon's death, The kingsmoot, even her capture could be replaced by she meeting Theon in Stannis camp at Winds of Winter.

Replace:

Margaery/Cersei: The same events but from another POV. Cersei chapters are too unpleasent and bitter, I do not like the prophecy of Maggy either because if it happens we already expect it in a way, and if not is something that didn't pay off. Margaery could give us just as much as Cersei but she would also surprise us more since she is caught by surprise by Cersei's plot during AFFC. The down side would be a little similar with Sansa's chapters but Margaery is a complete diferent character, much more quickly and not so defenseless as Sansa was.

[The Commentator]

POVs to include:

A Dothraki POV.  One of the Bloodriders could have been so awesome.

Reznak mo Reznak

Ser Jorah

Belwas

POVs to exclude:

Arya

 

[Gerg Sknab]

Blackfish accompanied by Jeyne, Raynauld and Greywind would be good to include. Two or three chapters following their ventures to Seagard, and the Mallisters, Greywater and Howland Reed up the Trident forks while decimating Freys and bringing the Riverlands back to heal in view of the dwindling power affected by the Lannisters.

Rickon should be good for several chapters. The first will be centered on Skagos with Rickon, Shaggy, Oesha and Davos striving to survive. The second being found on the shores of Sisterton by Rickon's half brother Jon Snow (Ned's natural born son). Davos then returns to White Harbour with ravens and letters at hand. Rickon, Oesha and Shaggy accompany Jon Snow to Runestone and Royce's Vale Tourney along with Sutherland's sevens sons. A chapter further on finds the little troop with  Runestone in an uproar and too late for the tourney and news that Baelish's daughter Alayne has been kidnapped barely eight hours previous. Baelish recognizes Jon and Rickon as Starks and continues to form wheels within wheels. The Rickon chapter will find that he, Jon, Shaggy and Oesha were able to set off in the confusion after the Hedges who absconded with who we now know is Sansa. Most the searchers have left for the most obvious destination  Gulltown . However Jon has made inquiries with smallfolk and the intelligence leads the group to Old Anchor. In Old Anchor they catch up with Mad Mouse and his cohorts who have booked passage to Maidenpool on Braavossi trawler. A skirmish takes place, Shaggy, Jon and Oesha make short work of the Hedges while Sansa and Rickon reunite. The chapter ends with Jon handing the trawler captain a coin and voicing Valor Morghulis. Next we find Rickon, Sansa, Jon, Oesha and Shaggy on the docks at Maidenpool moored behind another Braavossi trader Titan's Daughter. They see a passenger departing who Shaggy quickly recognizes as Arya. The group then picks up supplies and  departs Maidenpool  with little or no fanfare considering Randyll Tarly's army has left  and leaving Dickon and his new wife  in charge to travel to Quiet Isle and beyond . Approx a week passes on reaching the isle a large limping man and a black horse are hard at work is noticied however neither horse nor take no notice of  the Starks. That evening while supper is being taken the Elder Brother advises the women will have to vacate to opposite side of the island. More to write just can't do it right now.

[nyser1]

Wish for: 

Robb, Marg, Olenna, Garlan, Tywin, Baelish, and Varys

 

Please remove and replace:

Aeron, Asha (I would say Victarion but we need someone to cover Euron. Four Greyjoy POVs is two to three too many), and Quentyn.

[Darth Sidious]

5 hours ago, LadyOfCastamere said:

Hey there

I'm halfway through ADWD and I was surprised at the number of new POVs and the lack of POVs of people that already died. I'm aware this is nitpicking on a VERY high level, but what about you? If you were Martin's counselor, which POVs would you have included, which ones excluded?

Include:
- A POV of Joffrey: I wouldve liked to have a single POV-Chapter of him to have him humanized and understand his relationships better. I know he was a villain in a way and pretty annoying with his habits, but 1. he was old enough to be capable of reflecting on himself and his relationship and 2. he seemed very one-dimensional to me. Reading in his thoughts and feelings towards his mother, Tywin, the Hound, etc would've given us great insight and make his death more impactful.

-A POV of Kevan: I dont know if perhaps there will be a chapter of this coming in the rest of ADWD (I'm totally fine with spoilers!), but I would've liked one while Tywin was alive. Similar to Joff, Tywin was sort of villanized and lacked facettes. Kevan would've been awesome to give us glimpses and insight to who Tywin really was and how he meant to get Jaime to become heir to Casterly Rock.

-A POV of Loras: If it wasn't for the TV-series GOT I would've not picked up on his and Renly's relationship at all. It could've focussed on that but also give us an idea about the Tyrells. It is odd that we have so many POVs of different houses and supporters, yet NONE of the Tyrells.

Exclude: 

POVS of Victarion/Aeron: I'm aware that he plays his own role, but I personally didn't enjoy all the Greyjoy POVs, they were just too many. In my eyes GRRM could've mixed Victarion's and Asha's storyline and make her do the voyage with the Iron Fleet. As for Aeron, I don't really get why he got a POV, he seems so useless, just another religious fanatic. If he was supportive of Euron and gave us more of an idea about him I would've appreciated it, but like this? Nah. Then again, perhaps I'm missing something?

Are you asking specifically about A Dance With Dragons?  The chosen point of view characters were appropriate.  Although I might have preferred a Ghiscari point of view somewhere in there.  

[Impbread]

Include. Robb The Crowseye Illyreo Darkstar

Exclude. Hotah and Arriane

[Seams]

9 hours ago, LadyOfCastamere said:

Include:
- A POV of Joffrey
-A POV of Kevan
-A POV of Loras

Exclude:

POVS of Victarion/Aeron

Joffrey is a really important character. I think you can gain insights about him if you think of him as a mini-Jaime and as the anti-Azor Ahai. Like Azor Ahai, he does have three swords (Lion's Tooth, Heart Eater and Widow's Wail) but none of them is used correctly. He never loses his virginity, as far as we know, so the doesn't complete the Nissa Nissa hat trick.

Another interesting way of looking at Joffrey is as one of the monster princes: Dany has Rhaego, who came out as a horrifying monster if Mirri Maz Duur is to be believed. Tyrion is described as a grotesque baby (even though he is normal and even gifted but a little person). Catelyn's children are wargs. Gilly has a baby named Monster. Sansa tells the Tyrells that Joffrey is a monster so he fits the pattern.

In other words, there are ways to see more in Joffrey's character, even though we don't get a POV.

I think Loras is important as part of the larger Tyrell group, and they are significant in keeping the Garth Greenhand presence in the series. They may also be sort of symbolic Targs in a way I can't fully explain yet. The seem to be the stewards of Renly's ghost as well. If there is a wolf - flow - fowl wordplay motif, they clearly fall into the flower category.

Loras specifically is now special for being the first across the wall at the invasion of Dragonstone. Ser Jorah Mormont and Thoros of Myr were first across the wall at the attack on Pyke during the Greyjoy Rebellion. There is something special - perhaps even magical - about being first to cross a wall. So we may see something new in Ser Loras in the next books.

I am also impatient with the whole Greyjoy subplot that seemed to be introduced late in the books and distracts me from the characters that were already important to me. Another recent thread, however, showed me that Victarion may be a symbolic parallel to Jon Snow. So we can mine the various Greyjoy POVs for more information about the main characters, if we can only figure out how GRRM has used them as parallels.

As for POVs we wish for, I agree that a Sandor POV would be fascinating.

I know Littlefinger and Varys could never be POVs because we would learn too much about the end game if we knew their inner thoughts. But I would love to know, anyway!

Old Nan would be a fascinating POV, and could help to explain some important backstory or details that have been debated in this forum.

I know that everyone discounts House Stokeworth as a bunch of nutty old women, but I think they play an important symbolic role as protectors / gatekeepers for Maegor's Holdfast. I would have loved to have a Lady Tanda POV.

I also love Prince Doran and hope he lasts for awhile in the books. He may be too close to a king to qualify for a POV, but I would love to have a direct insight into his long game.

[Saer]

Swapping Barristan for Grey Worm would make a lot of sense to me.

[BlackLightning]

1 hour ago, Saer said:

Swapping Barristan for Grey Worm would make a lot of sense to me.

This is who I would want too.

INCLUDE

Grey Worm

Margaery Tyrell

[Nevets]

INCLUDE

Robb Stark

Gendry

Margaery Tyrell

All would have interesting perspectives on events, and none knows too much.

 

REMOVE

Quentyn

Victarion in ADWD (AFFC chapters were OK, but I grew tired of him in ADWD.)

 

 

 

[Saer]

2 hours ago, Nevets said:

Victarion in ADWD (AFFC chapters were OK, but I grew tired of him in ADWD.)

Ha, that's funny—I hated him in AFFC, but then in Dance he was just hilarious.

[Gingin]

I would include:

- a POV of Robb

- a POV of Loras

- a POV of Sweetrobin

( - a POV of Ser Pounce ... lol )

 

Frankly, I would exclude Asha, because the POVs of the rest of the Greyjoys are enough for me.

[Gerg Sknab]

Spoiler

 

How about a several chapter POV from Baleron the black dread Rhenys's kitten rather Sir Pounce. That black cat is now what eighteen years old, has seen a lot of history,  has a reputation of being sly and viscous and been warged by Arya among others. 

Rather see a POV of Hardyng the heir rather than sweetrobin who is slowly being incapacitated withsweetsop and sweetmilk

How can you POV Robb when he is passes and gone? 

Remove Samwell as a POV and if a replacement must be found for events in Old Town make it Alleras. As a matter fact individual POVs should follow the Sand Snakes. Yeah I know that's a lot of ink however the views will cover Nymeria in Small Council Tyene with High Septon both in Kings Landing Obarra at home in Dorne in constant contact with Doran intelligence gathering on Swann's next move while as mentioned Alleras at the Citadel

[Gingin]

56 minutes ago, Gerg Sknab said:

How about a several chapter POV from Baleron the black dread Rhenys's kitten rather Sir Pounce. 

It would be really cool... but sadly it’s probably not happening and just fantasy!  Anyway, I hope we see more of him in the future books!

 

59 minutes ago, Gerg Sknab said:

How can you POV Robb when he is passes and gone? 

Now we can’t POV him anymore, sure, but I think it would have been interesting to know what was going on in his mind when he was alive. It’s true that if his POV had been included, GRRM would have made us cry even more...

 

I like the idea of a POV of (at least one of) the Sand Snakes!

[Gerg Sknab]

To finish up on the Rickon arc the gravedigger, stranger and Nymeria reveal themselves to the rest of the Stark crew on leaving Quiet Isle. Next chapter finds them travelling on the Kings Road and on arriving at the neck find Crannogmen as well a Blackfish, Jeyne, Raynauld and greywind waiting for them. Oh and Davos, Wex, Maderlys, Hornwoods and Glovers also attach themselves making a large enough force to Attack the skeleton crew left the Dreadfort

[Baelor 'Breakspear']

On 6/6/2019 at 8:16 PM, Arthur Peres said:

 

Margaery/Cersei: The same events but from another POV. Cersei chapters are too unpleasent and bitter, I do not like the prophecy of Maggy either because if it happens we already expect it in a way, and if not is something that didn't pay off. Margaery could give us just as much as Cersei but she would also surprise us more since she is caught by surprise by Cersei's plot during AFFC. The down side would be a little similar with Sansa's chapters but Margaery is a complete diferent character, much more quickly and not so defenseless as Sansa was.

I think there is a Tyrell plot with Mace/Margaery/Olenna planning it so if we hada Tyrell POV it would spoil too much

[asongofheresy]

I want  Tyrell POV as well as someone from Lys - I think Asha and JonCon weren't that necessary as we had Tyrion first then Arianne for Aegon story. 

[Sarah Michelle Gellar]

I would have liked one chapter from Robert’s perspective. It’d be interesting to differentiate how oblivious he was to what was going on around him versus how much he was ignoring through his alcohol abuse.