Dreadscythe95 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 7 hours ago, Kajjo said: Homophobia in medieval times is not cliche but realistic. This was not Homophobia though. He was just completelty dump and showed to that stranger that he was homosexual. That is completely dump to do for someone like Loras. And let's be honest, he was completely cliche. In the purple wedding he and Oberyn martel were exchanging dirty faces just because Loras is gay and Oberyn is bi. His whole gay character is written "in your face" for no reason at all. In the books Martin has handled it 100 times better and made him a very interesting character eventhough Loras homosexuality is just implied in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajjo Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 8 hours ago, Dreadscythe95 said: His whole gay character is written "in your face" Very many things are explicit in GoT, including sexuality. 8 hours ago, Dreadscythe95 said: Loras homosexuality is just implied in the books. Yes, so what? Ilove it that the show is more explicit about sexuality. If they had not been explicit, I am sure there would have been a lot moaning about not touching homosexuality. There is always space for whining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Renly was made into a 21st century metrosexual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Oh, I got another that felt like the show did a complete disservice towards, The North. Simply, the North and the Northerners come off as some of the most disloyal and untrustworthy individuals in the show with barely any of them appearing to respect their vows or oaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 25 minutes ago, Minsc said: Oh, I got another that felt like the show did a complete disservice towards, The North. Simply, the North and the Northerners come off as some of the most disloyal and untrustworthy individuals in the show with barely any of them appearing to respect their vows or oaths. The Northern lords were portrayed as selfish, treacherous wankers, who expected protection from their enemies while giving little in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, SeanF said: The Northern lords were portrayed as selfish, treacherous wankers, who expected protection from their enemies while giving little in return. Seriously, some of the biggest tragedy of the Red Wedding in the books besides just the deaths of Robb and Catelyn is all the different Northerners and Riverlords that equally went down trying to protect Robb in their loyalty. In the show it appears that none of their lords actually cared in the slightest about House Stark and they were all willing to betray them at the drop of a hat. That isn't even going into how none of the Northerners show the slightest gratitude towards Dany for her actions in helping to fight the Night King. Sansa, in particular, and Arya, to a lesser degree, specifically come off as just the absolute worse in their snide derision of her. Seriously, I am a Stark and North fanboy for the books yet I just couldn't care less about them at the end of the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, Minsc said: Seriously, some of the biggest tragedy of the Red Wedding in the books besides just the deaths of Robb and Catelyn is all the different Northerners and Riverlords that equally went down trying to protect Robb in their loyalty. In the show it appears that none of their lords actually cared in the slightest about House Stark and they were all willing to betray them at the drop of a hat. That isn't even going into how none of the Northerners show the slightest gratitude towards Dany for her actions in helping to fight the Night King. Sansa, in particular, and Arya, to a lesser degree, specifically come off as just the absolute worse in their snide derision of her. Seriously, I am a Stark and North fanboy for the books yet I just couldn't care less about them at the end of the series. Sansa's points about supplies and the need to rest the soldiers were fair. But, yes, if the Dead really were the existential threat they were made out to be, any normal person would be delighted that someone turned up to fight them with dragons and an army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br16 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 1 hour ago, SeanF said: Sansa's points about supplies and the need to rest the soldiers were fair. But, yes, if the Dead really were the existential threat they were made out to be, any normal person would be delighted that someone turned up to fight them with dragons and an army. Yeah, especially considering that as the fight was imminent, and the casualties projection were close to 100%, if I were Sansa, I did be more miffed that all this food would probably go to waste. Personally, if Bran is what NK is after, why not just evacuate Winterfell, park Bran secretly in the Crown lands and open the gates of Moat Cailin. Perhaps those wights would just lumber onwards to Kings Landing and Cersei can deal with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br16 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Minsc said: Seriously, some of the biggest tragedy of the Red Wedding in the books besides just the deaths of Robb and Catelyn is all the different Northerners and Riverlords that equally went down trying to protect Robb in their loyalty. In the show it appears that none of their lords actually cared in the slightest about House Stark and they were all willing to betray them at the drop of a hat. That isn't even going into how none of the Northerners show the slightest gratitude towards Dany for her actions in helping to fight the Night King. Sansa, in particular, and Arya, to a lesser degree, specifically come off as just the absolute worse in their snide derision of her. Seriously, I am a Stark and North fanboy for the books yet I just couldn't care less about them at the end of the series. Yeah, the attitude of the Northern Lords during the Stark recruitment drive for Battle of Bastards was just horrible. I don't think they'd give Ned Stark's only surviving son (as far as they know) and daughter that much attitude. Moreover, Smalljon would never do what he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 5 hours ago, SeanF said: Sansa's points about supplies and the need to rest the soldiers were fair. But, yes, if the Dead really were the existential threat they were made out to be, any normal person would be delighted that someone turned up to fight them with dragons and an army. Except Dany declared herself Queen of the 7K, aka Protector of the Realm. Why does someone need special treatment for doing their duty? Why would anyone be happy when help only comes with a demand for subjugation? And of course it depends on how much people know about the mission beyond the wall. And it gave the NK the means to break through the wall, meaning it's Team Dany's fault the dead are in Westeros. No that wasn't mentioned in the show but people in the North weren't surprised when Bran said for all to hear that the NK+army were in Westeros with an undead dragon. The chances of no one asking questions as to how that all happened are slim to none. You don't get extra points for cleaning up the mess you created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mystical said: Except Dany declared herself Queen of the 7K, aka Protector of the Realm. Why does someone need special treatment for doing their duty? Why would anyone be happy when help only comes with a demand for subjugation? That cuts both ways in a feudal society. When you seek protection from someone who is more powerful than you are, you are acknowledging that the relationship is one of vassal and overlord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 8 hours ago, Mystical said: Except Dany declared herself Queen of the 7K, aka Protector of the Realm. Why does someone need special treatment for doing their duty? Why would anyone be happy when help only comes with a demand for subjugation? And of course it depends on how much people know about the mission beyond the wall. And it gave the NK the means to break through the wall, meaning it's Team Dany's fault the dead are in Westeros. No that wasn't mentioned in the show but people in the North weren't surprised when Bran said for all to hear that the NK+army were in Westeros with an undead dragon. The chances of no one asking questions as to how that all happened are slim to none. You don't get extra points for cleaning up the mess you created. Only the only reason Dany had to go up north of the Wall was to bail out the North's king. Therefore, Jon is at greater fault for the NK receiving the means to break the Wall than Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Minsc said: Only the only reason Dany had to go up north of the Wall was to bail out the North's king. Therefore, Jon is at greater fault for the NK receiving the means to break the Wall than Dany. I personally believe that the Night King was coming, dragon or not, and intended to freeze the sea near Eastwatch so the Army of the Dead could cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Dany was supposed to bring her own damn food. That's what Sansa was asking about. They did show Dany burning the food that made her attack the Lannisters in the first place, so Dany showed up with an army and expected the starving, poor Northerners to use up all of their food on Dany's dragons + armies. I'm sure GRRM will cover this in more detail in the books because food is a big issue and anyone who treats it so flippantly like Dany did is going to fail. I could see that coming from a mile away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br16 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 22 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Dany was supposed to bring her own damn food. That's what Sansa was asking about. They did show Dany burning the food that made her attack the Lannisters in the first place, so Dany showed up with an army and expected the starving, poor Northerners to use up all of their food on Dany's dragons + armies. I'm sure GRRM will cover this in more detail in the books because food is a big issue and anyone who treats it so flippantly like Dany did is going to fail. I could see that coming from a mile away. Well, its like when you car pool, the passenger pays for the gas. Dany had the larger army and the dragon glass, so she was the "car owner" and Sansa had to pay for food (i.e. gas). Also, Dany burned the food because D&D made the dragon appear after the calvary so Jaime can do that surprised Pikachu face after he said " we can hold them off". The delay caused her to be late in deploying the flanking fire maneuver as the Dothraki had already crashed into Lannister lines. Thus she had to burn the things behind the Lannister Spearmen to disrupt their ability to retreat or scare them into breaking, as attacking the line directly would cause friendly fire casualties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br16 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 8 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: I personally believe that the Night King was coming, dragon or not, and intended to freeze the sea near Eastwatch so the Army of the Dead could cross. I agree, IIRC, the Hound looked into the fire at Beric's insistence and saw a vision of the NK crossing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 16 minutes ago, Br16 said: Well, its like when you car pool, the passenger pays for the gas. Dany had the larger army and the dragon glass, so she was the "car owner" and Sansa had to pay for food (i.e. gas). We're talking politics, not your daily commute. I was thinking something like, if the U.S. showed up to assist Venezuela but didnt warn them or give them any heads-up that the U.S. expects a broke ass country to give up all their food in return for aid. I'm sure they would be like...da fuq. Usually armies come with their own food supplies. It's in character to have Dany burn everything, even the spoils of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br16 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said: We're talking politics, not your daily commute. I was thinking something like, if the U.S. showed up to assist Venezuela but didnt warn them or give them any heads-up that the U.S. expects a broke ass country to give up all their food in return for aid. I'm sure they would be like...da fuq. Usually armies come with their own food supplies. It's in character to have Dany burn everything, even the spoils of war. But the problem is Dany was the broke person, all she had was Dragonstone and her host. Plus, technically Jon was in charge in the North, and Westeros is traditional, so the dude pays for dinner. She was dumb for invading Westeros during Winter, she should've gone to take Volantis and linked up with Red Priests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadscythe95 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 On 7/11/2019 at 11:22 AM, Kajjo said: Very many things are explicit in GoT, including sexuality. Yes, so what? Ilove it that the show is more explicit about sexuality. If they had not been explicit, I am sure there would have been a lot moaning about not touching homosexuality. There is always space for whining. But he isn't written in an interesting way. He is just there as "the gay person". Ask anyomne the first thing that will come to ther mind about Loras Tyrell in the series and see what they will tell you: the gay character with the clever sister and the badass grandmother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Dreadscythe95 said: But he isn't written in an interesting way. He is just there as "the gay person". Ask anyomne the first thing that will come to ther mind about Loras Tyrell in the series and see what they will tell you: the gay character with the clever sister and the badass grandmother. They turned an interesting minor/secondary character who is gay into a gay stereotype, and threw in those dumb as fuck "gay jokes" to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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