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Plain, Simple Tailor

Who got the most screwed over

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In comparison to the books, who did the show most heinously misinterpret? 

It’s so hard. I hate the removal of abuse and toxic masculinity from Sam’s backstory. And he can only be truly brave once he beats rapists off of Gilly and kills an Other. It’s just such shit. 

The same applies to Theon, who got majorly screwed over by the sausage breakfast scene and the fact that they took away all the physical elements of his torture aside from the obvious. Plus, adding Sansa to his arc diverts it from him. The whole point of Jeyne was emphasizing the loss of innocence of Winterfell and the idea of identity. 

Tyrion got screwed over too, and so did Peter Dinklage. Dinklage could have been so brilliant in the story of a dwarf whose internalized ableism and inferiority complex slowly turn him into the monster everyone thought that he was. But instead we get Tyrion the Goodest Mensch. 

I have to give a shout out to Varys, who essentially sat around doing nothing for 8 years. By removing Aegon, they removed the entire point of his character. And then there’s Littlefinger, who had a mix of horrible acting and terrible writing. 

This isn't even getting into what they did to all of the female characters. They just didn't get Catelyn or Sansa, and saw both of their feminine aspects as weaknesses that had to be fixed rather than being what made them strong. 

UUUUGGGHHH, there are so many. 

Also Barristan. Jesus, those guys are jerks. 

Oh god, Stannis, who they literally killed off because THEY STRAIGHT UP DIDN’T LIKE HIS CHARACTER. 

There are so many. 

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I was never a Dany fan but I don’t know how anyone with straight face can argue that her heel turn in the last two episodes wasn’t one of the most horrendously botch events in tv history. I’m sorry but what she did to the Tarlys or her general harshness is execution style is not “foreshadowing” for her going pure mass murdering insane. 

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38 minutes ago, Stannis is the man....nis said:

but I don’t know how anyone with straight face can argue that her heel turn in the last two episodes wasn’t one of the most horrendously botch events in tv history.

My gosh, another thread about people not understanding Daenerys? Doesn't it get old? Daenerys did not make a 180 degree turn, but was all the way from S1E1 a dragon inside. Some people just didn't noticed it.

12 hours ago, Plain, Simple Tailor said:

Plus, adding Sansa to his arc diverts it from him.

Game of Thrones has many more well-depicted characters as any other show anyway. Even more would not have been better. Some compression was necessary.

I liked Sansa/Ramsay very much. This fits really well to Sansa's arc in the show. And summing up Sansa/Ramsay/Theon makes a lot of sense. In the show it works out very well. These were still the good seasons. 

I feel that some of the compression of arcs would even have been well for the book, too. Ramsay/Sansa works fine for me and Theon/Ramsay was executed well in the show. Not every difference to the books in bad.

 

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9 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

My gosh, another thread about people not understanding Daenerys? Doesn't it get old? Daenerys did not make a 180 degree turn, but was all the way from S1E1 a dragon inside. Some people just didn't noticed it.

 

As for Daenerys, you can pretend it was foreshadowed. The only foreshadowing for her heel-turn was that Benioff and Weiss are sexist. We should have known that they would turn the main female character into a cRaZy LaDy that needs to be put down by the male protagonist. 

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31 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

My gosh, another thread about people not understanding Daenerys? Doesn't it get old? Daenerys did not make a 180 degree turn, but was all the way from S1E1 a dragon inside. Some people just didn't noticed it.

 

I’m sorry but Daenerys always had a very clear moral code about being gentle and fair to peasantry. Nothing throughout the show hint or showed she would was somehow faking this position nor did anything that happen to her in S8 justify going from “blood of my enemies not of the innocent” or locking up her dragons because Drogon killed a kid to straight up nuking a surrendering city and burning little kids alive 

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57 minutes ago, Stannis is the man....nis said:

Nothing throughout the show hint or showed

Well, there are enough lists of Daenerys showing exactly this. Towards to 13 in front of Meeren, the pep-talk to the united Dothraki, her reaction to Yunkai re-slaved and so on. 

Daenerys has a good heart and often the right intentions, but she has the dragon inside. From the beginning. 

Yes, she snapped in E5 and overdid it. Such things happen. But the overall mood of frustation, loneliless and "fear not love" did the major part.

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4 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Well, there are enough lists of Daenerys showing exactly this. Towards to 13 in front of Meeren, the pep-talk to the united Dothraki, her reaction to Yunkai re-slaved and so on. 

Daenerys has a good heart and often the right intentions, but she has the dragon inside. From the beginning. 

Yes, she snapped in E5 and overdid it. Such things happen. But the overall mood of frustation, loneliless and "fear not love" did the major part.

E5 should have been the beginning of her fall from Grace. And we should have gotten another season to remove her from power. 

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Daenerys, hands down. The show never managed to do justice to her character. I think she is the only main character whose story underwent major changes from early on.

They changed hers and Drogo's love story in S1 (he rapes her on the wedding night). While they did get the part about her being scared and terrified as a girl right, they never managed to show her spirited-ness in any of the seasons. Her story in S2 was so completely different from the books. Her arc in Meereen was devoid of the moral complexity/ambiguity shown in the books. Instead the show directly went to her burning people randomly (in the books, she does feel guilty about the 163, even though they were horrible slavers).

The mental brilliance of book Dany is missing in the show, which just wants her to be Mad Queen. (It's also the same with Arya, who is not just a "badass" but a prodigiously smart little girl in the books.) In contrast, Jon's temperament in the show is predictably tepid. Book Jon can become furious and violent (it's justified but he still gets crazy mad, especially in book 1). 

Part of the changes made to Dany's arc could be because the showrunners decided to cut out the magical elements in the fantasy story. The same stuff about fire magic and prophesies that is important to Dany's arc in the books. Or it could just be that they never really knew how to write a female character with powers that usually male heroes in fantasy have. Or maybe they liked Jon way to much and wanted to give him a super moral reason to kill Dany. 

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I actually thought he was just mouthing off. Both to get Edmure his walking papers and then to convince Brienne he wasn't worthy of her pain.

'Cersei's a shit and so am I. We deserve each other and no one deserves toget stuck with either of us' type crap.

 

Or I simply rationalized that because 'wtf?!'.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, It_spelt_Magalhaes said:

I actually thought he was just mouthing off. Both to get Edmure his walking papers and then to convince Brienne he wasn't worthy of her pain.

'Cersei's a shit and so am I. We deserve each other and no one deserves toget stuck with either of us' type crap.

 

Or I simply rationalized that because 'wtf?!'.

I'm not sure he was just saying those things. The show wanted to portray him like an addict. That cersei was the basis of all his decisions and he couldn't break free from her. So I believe show Jaime meant what he said (which makes me gag).

Edited by Apoplexy

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15 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

I'm not sure he was just saying those things. The show wanted to portray him like an addict. That cersei was the basis of all his decisions and he couldn't break free from her. So I believe show Jaime meant what he said (which makes me gag).

Yeah, if that's exactly what they were going for, there goes my yogurt and granola.

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Posted (edited)

I think Dany is the most closely adapted character..she expresses more self doubt in the books but in the end barrels on ahead by siding with her dragon side anyway.

Jon is poorly adapted. In the books he's cunning, critical, and can lie. In S1-7 he's a dumb jock and in S8 he's Dany's wight.

From a fan account, GRRM said he struggled with Tyrion and how sympathetic or dark to make him in the books. I think he may have influenced the show runners to go with a whiter Tyrion because he may regret the darker things he wrote for him, like the Tysha rape, the rape of the whore in ADWD, his callous wishes to rape Cersei, and how he treats Penny. They cut all that out which is a defining character trait.

Edited by Rose of Red Lake

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Posted (edited)

Lannisters got whitewashed mostly in comparison to their characters in books, only exception is Jaime who gets to kill his cousin trying to escape , so far he isn't a kin-slayer in the novel, there is also that scene with Cersei on Joffrey's  funeral and of-course his claim that he never cared about innocents.

Dorne characters got truly ruined , though so far they haven't been very impactful in the novels , of course I look forward to reading about them.

I am partial to the way they ruined Stannis and also given to Jon Snow lot of his storyline. I even choose my avatar in part for their depiction that is akin to Lannister propaganda from the novels:

Quote

Galyeon was a big barrel-chested man with a black beard, a bald head, and a thunderous voice that filled every corner of the throne room. He brought no fewer than six musicians to play for him. "Noble lords and ladies fair, I sing but one song for you this night," he announced. "It is the song of the Blackwater, and how a realm was saved." The drummer began a slow ominous beat.

"The dark lord brooded high in his tower," Galyeon began, "in a castle as black as the night."

"Black was his hair and black was his soul," the musicians chanted in unison. A flute came in.

"He feasted on bloodlust and envy, and filled his cup full up with spite," sang Galyeon. "My brother once ruled seven kingdoms, he said to his harridan wife. I'll take what was his and make it all mine. Let his son feel the point of my knife."

"A brave young boy with hair of gold," his players chanted, as a woodharp and a fiddle began to play.

"The dark lord assembled his legions, they gathered around him like crows. And thirsty for blood they boarded their ships . . ."

". . . and cut off poor Tyrion's nose," Tyrion finished.

My opinion is that they haven't understood essence of many characters and how they changed and developed, in the end lot of them either reverted to starting point or are blatantly projection of their bias.

Edited by Eltharion21

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Jon Snow was treated pretty poorly, instead of being a pragmatic 'hero' they turned him into a complete fool who always makes the wrong choice and never wins any battles w/out someone bailing him out.  And since I believe that Dany turning dark is absolutely from GRRM, I think Jon's treatment was worse because he's certainly no idiot as he was written.  Bran and Sansa get honorable mentions.  

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I have to mention Cersei here as well. I'm not sure why was cersei portrayed as a sympathetic character. She did pretty terrible things, yet no character seemed to care or challenge her on it. And she given a very kind death. I don't get it.

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5 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

I have to mention Cersei here as well. I'm not sure why was cersei portrayed as a sympathetic character. She did pretty terrible things, yet no character seemed to care or challenge her on it. And she given a very kind death. I don't get it.

If they did all that to turn her into a main antagonist, only to then then sell us 'poor, dear Cersei', I don't get it either. Humanize her? Show how much worse Daenerys was at the end?

In those final scenes, to me she wasn't Cersei. She was a victim. And a lamely portrayed one. The woman who seized power through any means available in the show, who showed us how human evil can be, without recourse to magic or the supernatural, without dragons or the immediate support of houses and vassals? She went out whimpering. I thought the daugher of Tywin Lannister, who the show erroneously tried to sell us was just like him?, would fight or manipulate her way out. Or at least try, ffs.

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The answer to the proposed question is clearly, "the viewers."  The show runners decided we're all too stupid to follow plot or character development, therefore all coherency in either was thrown away in the pursuit of shock and awe, or destroyed in a flurry of hi-five inducing moments of frat-boy awesome moments that mean nothing.

Arya's character and entire reason for existing?  Canceled via Sandor's saying, "no wait."

Jon's character and entire reason for being brought back from the dead?  Canceled via Arya's ninja assassin stealing of meaning moment.  Also, whenever anybody wants to do anything, must re-state, "THE NIGHT KING IS COMING!" and "SHE'S MUH KWEEN!"  (HI-FIVE!)

Sam's attempting to overcome where he came from and prove his own worth despite how much his family despised him?  Canceled due to . . . I'm not sure.  His story just seemed to peter out until the final scene where he magically became Maester despite betraying his order, twice removed.

Tyrion was destroyed seasons ago, but the inconsistency in season 8 was so far off the chain it was like they were trying to burn the corpse after the fact.  From one scene to another he was all over the map, culminating in him being on trial and being told he needs to STFU and then immediately declaring Bran king with everybody agreeing just because.  (Can't even HI-FIVE!)

Bran - well, the show runners obviously had no idea WTF so make him king.  This kid isn't even human at this point.  He's declared himself completely removed from human needs and interaction, so lets put him in charge.  Why not?  (HI-FIVE!)

Sansa: because strength essentially breaks down to being snarky and shitty to everyone around you regardless of how awful it makes you seem.  The lesson was supposed to be to be polite to a fault, and use that politeness to cut people without them knowing it.  Snark and bitch is exactly the same thing.  "Sit down!"  (HI-FIVE!)

Danny actually had a sort of believable arc growing up until the second to last episode.  Even stating right up to that moment that she will not spill the blood of the innocent.  Until she has victory in her hands.  Apparently victory makes you snap.  BURNINATION!  SHE WAS ALWAYS THIS CRAZY!  IT IS KNOWN!  (HI-FIVES ALL AROUND!!!)

Jamie not only destroyed his entire redemption arc in such a short amount of time it would make your head spin if you could still be bothered to give a shit about anything happening on the show by this point, but also took one his one defining characteristic that made him somewhat sympathetic from the start with a simply delivered line of sarcastic intent that made you wonder if there was every anything more to his character than snark and stupid.  Seems like a lot of the characters in the end when it comes right down to it.  Dies attempting to "save" the woman that destroyed everything she ever touched, and that he'd just left intentionally a season ago for being a monster.  But hey, most sympathetic character death of the finale!  (HI-FIVE!)

Cersei existed purely as a fan-fic due to the fact the show runners were in love with Headey's portrayal.  At least this one makes sense on an outside the show level.  Still weird to try and turn her into the one sympathetic character left at the end, when we all saw what a terrible monster she was throughout the series.  But, hey, as the ultimate expression of girl power on the show, I'm sure that epic death scene was warranted somehow.  (HI-FIVE!)

Sandor's death may have had meaning, had he CHOSEN to fling his brother into the fire going along with him.  As it was, they used it as the dumbest non-poetic death possible, especially after his Arya turning speech of stupid.  FIRE!  (HI-FIVE!)

Bronn being the most untrustworthy and self-serving dude in the realm being instantly tossed in as master of coin?  BROTHELS FOR ALL!  (HI-FIVE!!!!!!)

Every time I wrote hi-five, I was actually facepalming.  Now, excuse me, I need to go get checked for a concussion.

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5 hours ago, It_spelt_Magalhaes said:

If they did all that to turn her into a main antagonist, only to then then sell us 'poor, dear Cersei', I don't get it either. Humanize her? Show how much worse Daenerys was at the end?

In those final scenes, to me she wasn't Cersei. She was a victim. And a lamely portrayed one. The woman who seized power through any means available in the show, who showed us how human evil can be, without recourse to magic or the supernatural, without dragons or the immediate support of houses and vassals? She went out whimpering. I thought the daugher of Tywin Lannister, who the show erroneously tried to sell us was just like him?, would fight or manipulate her way out. Or at least try, ffs.

Precisely! They even had her stand in a tower like a helpless Disney heroine. Wouldn't someone as canny as cersei not have a plan to escape if things went badly? And then her death was a loose recreation of Pompei (the one with Kit Harrington ). She was supposed to be the ultimate antagonist, ruthless with no moral compass. I'm not sure why they wanted to portray her as victim.

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